Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #8

[Linda7NJ]

Yeah... I am kind of suspicious of the kind of faith that must deny scientific knowledge in order to exist.

Ummmmm really?




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[Linda7NJ]

I don't know how much of this is faith based. I still think a lot of it is denial, a lot of it is backing themselves in a corner as Donjeta put in better words than I can, and, most of it is inability to be the one that makes the decision. I know I could NOT pull the plug on my DD, no matter what. I just don't think I could.

I did meet a young man many years ago at work that thought he was messed up because of his family. Very faith based, and not a very popular faith. His parents (not in a big City, so this is one of the very small faith following groups that tend to live away from others) kept his deceased brother at home for 4 days praying for him to be returned to life after a fatal outdoor accident. Needless to say, 4 days was enough to let them know it was not going to happen, no need to explain the why... The young man was actually a fine, intelligent, hard working young man, this was just the largest mind altering experience that plagued him as he was there, saw it, participated in the prayers. He is married, working, and a good father now, but he was forever altered by his experiences then.

That is why I know faith here is just a thread to hang a hat on. I think they know what is going on, they backed themselves in, may want $$$, and seriously, what mom ever could make the choice?

Worlds of difference between keeping a cadaver in a home and a brain dead person on a ventilator


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[Donjeta]

Ummmmm really?




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I'm not sure what exactly you're asking, but yeah, really... It seems to me that if we believe that {insert divinity of your choice} created this world and humans and fortified us with some observable useful features like spinal reflexes, then it makes no sense for us to boost our belief in said divinity by denying the existence of those features that he created. If our faith is true shouldn't it be able to coexist with the reality of this world? Things that seem strange and wonderful are not a really convincing proof of {insert divinity} if it really just mostly means that we don't understand the scientific explanation, never bothered to find out or flat out deny it because we don't like it. I don't believe that a true Supreme Being is threatened by science and wants us to make false claims in order to support our faith.

 

[otto]

Is there anybody who knows enough about tech to get a date off of that video? All we know is the date it was posted online, but there should be an actual date embedded in the video.

Do you have the link to the video?

 

[K_Z]

I'm not sure what exactly you're asking, but yeah, really... It seems to me that if we believe that {insert divinity of your choice} created this world and humans and fortified us with some observable useful features like spinal reflexes, then it makes no sense for us to boost our belief in said divinity by denying the existence of those features that he created. If our faith is true shouldn't it be able to coexist with the reality of this world? Things that seem strange and wonderful are not a really convincing proof of {insert divinity} if it really just mostly means that we don't understand the scientific explanation, never bothered to find out or flat out deny it because we don't like it. I don't believe that a true Supreme Being is threatened by science and wants us to make false claims in order to support our faith.

Well, even the Vatican and the Pope says that there is a possibility of aliens in space, and that even those would be created by God.

I presume the Vatican also believes in spinal reflexes. And brain death.

 

[K_Z]

Do you have the link to the video?

http://distilleryvesper0-8.ak.instagram.com/bc916f6c861511e39bfe12806b62c140_101.mp4

 

[otto]

Did anyone else look at the creation date of the video and come up with 1/1/1904? I did. Let me see if I can find another way to look at it, but that's what I'm getting.

 

[Minette]

I read a quote somewhere once long ago (and I cannot remember where but it made a big impression on me) that went something like this: "He who made the Lamb also made the microscope."

 

[otto]

Does anyone have photoshop? It's easy to check metadata in photoshop ... open BR (bridge), click on the METADATA tab, and it should appear in the column about the clip. My computer is a month old and all the software is authentic, so it's very odd that I'm getting such an odd date. Maybe someone else with photoshop can see what they get in terms of "creation date"

Forgot to include the important part ... select the file that you want to check ... so save the file to a folder, find it in the folders in Bridge, then check the metadata.

If the video is tagged as Jan 1, 1904, then the videographer doesn't wants anyone to know the date that the video was made.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Oh my gosh.. How O/T is this?!

I am hoping beyond hope that someone talks this family into letting this baby go.

 

[ArianeEmory]

It is the cold stimuli video clip of the girl's foot. Again, this is a known response to stimuli not dependent on the brain stem.

This drives home the idea that there is a huge segment of the population that is unwilling to accept scientific fact. Are they being obtuse or do they not have the capacity to process higher levels of reasoning?

There have been many excellent posts in the last few pages, but this is the heart of this issue for me. It is extremely disheartening to see people viewing reason and science as the enemy; and to see celebration of that ignorance being incubated via social media.

On a lighter note:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IZeWPScnolo&desktop_uri=/watch?v=IZeWPScnolo

(Relevant, but also irreverent humor so may be offensive to the religiously inclined.)

 

[SophieRose]

Interesting case from Kansas:
http://www.thaddeuspope.com/images/Brett_Shively_brief.pdf

Quick summary of case
http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/c...ar-brain-death-legal-cases?source=most_viewed

In 2006, a Kansas family received a temporary injunction to keep 2-year-old Brett Shively Jr. on a ventilator after a drowning accident led doctors to declare him brain dead. The family would not consent to approve the final brain-death test, and a judge ruled that physicians must treat him as a live patient. The hospital agreed to release the boy to his family but appealed the judge's decision because it believed the ruling set a dangerous standard. An appellate court reversed the lower court's decision. It's unclear how long Brett remained on the ventilator.

This happened in Feb 2006, went to home care on March 17, 2006. Looked up the name and the SS death index shows that name in the state of Kansas as dying in Jun 2008 at the age of 4.

 

[Quester]

Mods have said social media is ok, as long as it is clearly related to Jahi. I can post.

http://distilleryvesper0-8.ak.instagram.com/bc916f6c861511e39bfe12806b62c140_101.mp4

source for video clip:

https://www.facebook.com/keepJahiMcmathonlifesupport

And I will add that I also believe those are spinal reflexes. If you were to attach a peripheral nerve stimulator, such as the one we use in surgery, you could induce lots of twitching.

Mo'Na says that JM is just in a coma, not brain dead!

And Gena says that JM is just having a little nap and will wake up all rested!

:thud:

 

[Elphaba]

Does anyone have photoshop? It's easy to check metadata in photoshop ... open BR (bridge), click on the METADATA tab, and it should appear in the column about the clip. My computer is a month old and all the software is authentic, so it's very odd that I'm getting such an odd date. Maybe someone else with photoshop can see what they get in terms of "creation date"

Forgot to include the important part ... select the file that you want to check ... so save the file to a folder, find it in the folders in Bridge, then check the metadata.

If the video is tagged as Jan 1, 1904, then the videographer doesn't wants anyone to know the date that the video was made.

In CS5 Bridge, the date creation is showing as 01/01/04.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Good catch on the date, guys. (The implication of the obfuscated date being: we don't know what shape her feet are really in now or if she is still having those reflexes because they made it impossible to know when it was taken. It's technically unlikely that the date obfuscation is an accident.)

 

[CHERIE.T]

Mo'Na says that JM is just in a coma, not brain dead!

And Gena says that JM is just having a little nap and will wake up all rested!

:thud:

I'm with you... double :thud: :thud:

 

[Wolfie]

Did anyone else look at the creation date of the video and come up with 1/1/1904? I did. Let me see if I can find another way to look at it, but that's what I'm getting.

So in other words, either the date isn't set correctly on what they posted, or they hid the date on purpose.

 

[otto]

So in other words, either the date isn't set correctly on what they posted, or they hid the date on purpose.

I think it's possible that the date on the camera is set incorrectly.

 

[otto]

Good catch on the date, guys. (The implication of the obfuscated date being: we don't know what shape her feet are really in now or if she is still having those reflexes because they made it impossible to know when it was taken. It's technically unlikely that the date obfuscation is an accident.)

I posted a photo of her hand from January 3 and the skin was loosening. Her feet either don't have the same deterioration, or the video is from early Dec.

 

[otto]

In CS5 Bridge, the date creation is showing as 01/01/04.

Thanks for confirming that. I get 01/01/1904, so we have the same result and it's not us, it's the video.