Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #8

[Nore]

As a religious person, who has lost their only child, I can only think, what is it about death that you don't understand? It is appointed unto man, once to die. I wish I was able to speak to this mother. What can be better, to a religious person, than to be in heaven with God. Certainly not where Jahi is now. Why have other people, mothers, who have traveled this road, not spoken with her? I'm in SC, but if I was close to her, I would try to reach out. I feel sorry for her, but I certainly don't understand her.
I come on here every few days, praying that something has changed. But, no.

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Hi rob, as one who shares a tragedy with you I say, Jahis' mom doesnt understand God answered her prayers~He said NO. My only one too. ((((hugs)))). :loveyou:

 

[Nore]

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/li.../ac-bts-brain-dead-mom-husband-and-mother.cnn

Munoz family could smell the deterioration. Why can't Jahi's family?

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The head of the nursings report said it is noticable. Jahis' family will never admit it. Her body has sloughed of the lining of her gut. Read the report by Flori I believe that is her name. This is a sad situation.

 

[Madeleine74]

Denial is stronger than any pungency in the most motivated and obstinate. Refusal of staff to attend to such a body will be what forces the issue, eventually. That could take weeks/months, depending on the fortitude of said staff.

 

[nrdsb4]

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The head of the nursings report said it is noticable. Jahis' family will never admit it. Her body has sloughed of the lining of her gut. Read the report by Flori I believe that is her name. This is a sad situation.

Actually, that was not a "nursings report." It was a report to the Court, filed by Dr. Heidi Flori, MD, who is board certified in pediatric critical care medicine and who also participated in the assessment and care of Jahi at CHO. And you are right, that report is stunning and speaks to how bad things actually are vs. what we are told by the lawyer and certain family members.

http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/HeidiFlori.pdf

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Denial is stronger than any pungency in the most motivated and obstinate. Refusal of staff to attend to such a body will be what forces the issue, eventually. That could take weeks/months, depending on the fortitude of said staff.

This is speculative of a possible scenario in what may be happening:

Due to family and other going to great lengths to accomplish this, no matter how bad things may be getting with her condition, they may choice to continue on until heart failure whereas under different less public circumstances, they may have chosen to remove vent support at some point. In other words, they may feel like they can't back out of a commitment.

I do believe, one of the similiar cases I read about eventually the parent made the decision to remove support.

How would the facility/staff or the other organizations providing financial support, back out on the commitment they made with the McMaths? They fought hard for this and agreed to accommodate the family based on cardiac death. Since they committed, I don't think they can now say sorry, we regret this and your SOL.

I can see some care providers possibly refusing to care for the body during this time period.

I can handle blood and other body secretions. I admit I've never smelled death, but hearing the family of Mrs. Mumoz describe the odor, I'm not sure that's something I would be able to handle as a care provider.

(I am not a licensed medical provider, but I have provided care for others that were sick and/or dying.)

 

[rob]

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Hi rob, as one who shares a tragedy with you I say, Jahis' mom doesnt understand God answered her prayers~He said NO. My only one too. ((((hugs)))). :loveyou:

You know, after I reread my post, I realized that I wrote it wrong. Jahi IS with God, only her body is in that bed, hooked to a machine.

 

[SwampMama]

Has anyone kept tabs on the ******** acct? I know there are people who have asked for a refund and gotten it. While I cannot provide a llink (other than the ******** page), anyone who has kept tabs has seen that although the donations trickle in (at a greatly reduced rate) the total has remained the same for many many days.

I think the ******** site leave does not deduct the refunds from the visible "total" but rather freezes it and takes the refunds from the incoming funds? Thus, the total is fixed until the incoming donations are greater than the refunds.

That's how it appears anyway.

 

[Madeleine74]

How would the facility/staff or the other organizations providing financial support, back out on the commitment they made with the McMaths? They fought hard for this and agreed to accommodate the family based on cardiac death. Since they committed, I don't think they can now say sorry, we regret this and your SOL.

A simple "no more monies available" is all that is needed. Most organizations don't have Warren Buffett levels of deep pockets.

 

[Melanie]

wowzer - I just went to her fund account, and they have raised 60K. I know it's not much, and probably just about covered the transport. I wonder if insurance is picking up the tab since she is "breathing" via a machine. This is a very difficult case.

MOO

Mel

 

[Frigga]

1 in 4 children in the United States goes to bed hungry every night. Think of all the starving children that $60,000.00 could feed, and for what... to what end will people justify that money. I would like a miracle, like anyone else- this isn't it! I guess that figure never really sunk in for me.

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.nursingcenter.com/lnc/JournalArticle?Article_ID=737966&Journal_ID=260876&Issue_ID=737950

 

[Softail]

This is speculative of a possible scenario in what may be happening:

Due to family and other going to great lengths to accomplish this, no matter how bad things may be getting with her condition, they may choice to continue on until heart failure whereas under different less public circumstances, they may have chosen to remove vent support at some point. In other words, they may feel like they can't back out of a commitment.

I do believe, one of the similiar cases I read about eventually the parent made the decision to remove support.

How would the facility/staff or the other organizations providing financial support, back out on the commitment they made with the McMaths? They fought hard for this and agreed to accommodate the family based on cardiac death. Since they committed, I don't think they can now say sorry, we regret this and your SOL.

I can see some care providers possibly refusing to care for the body during this time period.

I can handle blood and other body secretions. I admit I've never smelled death, but hearing the family of Mrs. Mumoz describe the odor, I'm not sure that's something I would be able to handle as a care provider.

(I am not a licensed medical provider, but I have provided care for others that were sick and/or dying.)

I still don't think there is/ever was a "facility" that took her. I still think she is at someone's home. Purely my opinion only.

That video of her feet, I believe was done back when they went to court. That was when they claimed to have video showing she was "alive".

 

[Frigga]

I still don't think there is/ever was a "facility" that took her. I still think she is at someone's home. Purely my opinion only.

That video of her feet, I believe was done back when they went to court. That was when they claimed to have video showing she was "alive".

Softail, I think I'm beginning to agree with this idea. Someone, somewhere would have let it slip by now, a friend of a family member who is caring for her, someone who has a menial job (menial not in my opinion) at the facility who could sell the info to help pay a bill... something. We aren't even this good at keeping presidential comings and goings this confidential sometimes. Hmmmm, you really have me thinking.

 

[Zuri]

Uncle O says he hasn't slept in 2 days. It certainly makes you wonder if Jahi's status has changed.

http://www.instavillage.com/u/iamomari/

The pic of him and Dolan at the playoff game was interesting. They had good seats.....

He indicated he was in pain and had not slept in 2 days......
Next to the body building pics.......

 

[popsicle]

Deciding what to do with my son’s body
JENNIFER GUNTER, MD | PHYSICIAN | JANUARY 31, 2014

Since I first heard of the Jahi McMath tragedy my thoughts have been with her family and have lingered more than usual on that terrible time for me. I understand the idea of not being able to let go. Not being able to process. Not being able to accept. I weep for them.

I understand people need time with a body before they can let go. If I’d known that July how I would feel today I would have asked for Aidan to be ventilated long enough so I could have held him just once while he was still warm. A chest moving, even artificially, knowing there was no hope of more would be a better memory than what I have.

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2014/01/deciding-sons-body.html

I have to say her regret surprises me. jmo

 

[scmom]

But she also says this in the article:
But what I don’t understand is how a lawyer could take the clear medical facts, that someone is tragically dead and twist it into court orders and false hope under the guise of family rights. Not being able to accept that someone has died and needing more time to let go or needing an independent verification of death is very different from stoking a mistaken belief that death has not occurred. Intimating that a tracheostomy, a feeding tube, and transfer to another facility holds some kind of promise for life in this situation isn’t just unethical, it’s cruel.
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2014/01/deciding-sons-body.html

 

[Frigga]

But there for the grace of God, go I!

I am so thankful I stand in none of these shoes.

 

[Madeleine74]

This will never make sense because what's happening has nothing to do with logic. There is deep denial on just about every level. Denial of what death is, denial of when death is determined, denial of science and scientific reality, denial in the cycle of life, which does include death (tragically even for children). Combine that with magical thinking and you have this case.

 

[K_Z]

I still don't think there is/ever was a "facility" that took her. I still think she is at someone's home. Purely my opinion only.

That video of her feet, I believe was done back when they went to court. That was when they claimed to have video showing she was "alive".

I agree, Softail-- I haven't ruled out a private home setting either. Or perhaps a church building, etc.

They have a large following of supporters. Some of them are bound to be nurses aides, LPNs, or RNs. It is possible that they have accepted donated machinery, hospital bed, and supplies, and donated volunteer nursing services. That would keep costs down. And keep things very quiet and away from the media. The grandmother is an LPN-- she probably has a lot of connections to people who know how to do physical care. A small cadre of dedicated volunteers, who agree to keep quiet, could accomplish the task for a while.

I've cared for people on ventilators in the back of transport military planes, in the back of trucks, in tents, etc. If you know how to set up some equipment, oxygen, meds, IV's, and work out the electrical and oxygen issues, etc, it wouldn't be hard to set up a place to provide custodial care to a body, especially if it were classified as a home care situation. That is essentially what the "facility" in New York was going to do. I imagined that they were going to put her in an empty office space at their main building (the one without automatic doors, lol!) if she ever arrived there.

I do think the coroner knows where they took Jahi's body. I think that was almost certainly part of the arrangement to release her body to Mrs. Winkfield. It's standard procedure when a body is released to family members for transport, or for religious/ cultural rituals, etc. Basically, the receiving person has to fill out forms and disclose what they intend to do.

I think we will continue to hear occasional social media reports of "She's doing great! She's healing every day, and responds to her mother's touch", right up until the day that it is announced that she has been called home to be with God. I expect there will be an enormous funeral, eventually, with thousands in attendance. They do have a really amazing number of supporters, whatever we may think about that. Since everything they are doing is framed within their faith, there is no way for them to lose face within their religious community of supporters, IMO. If she rises up and lives, prayer worked. And if she doesn't, then God called her home, and they will continue to praise God. Their supporters will be there for Mrs. Winkfield's emotional needs when the time for the funeral comes, I think.

But then I think that they will immediately become immersed in the process of litigation, which will go on and on for years on end. I really hope the other kids are having their needs attended to, and have returned to some kind of regular routine. Sadly, instead of mourning their sister, I think that this atmosphere of prolonged "conflict", followed by litigation, will define their childhood. I feel like their identity has been buried in all this, with all of the adults around them focused on prolonging the "conflict". Jahi might actually BE the only one in this whole mess who is "healing". JMO.

 

[Frigga]

I know someone, very close to me, who lives her entire emotional/relational life in denial. It took me quite a few years to figure it out and then many, many more to realize it is why nothing fazes her. It used to trigger me- because of my family history I make it a point to live in reality- the good the bad and the ugly. She is in her 70's now and I don't ever see her changing. For some people this is a way of life and I can't help but think that this has been a way of life for NW, way prior to the situation with her beloved daughter.