Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #8

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  • #741
Gotta love Byrne's comment. "....After a video surfaced..." as though it just happened to appear from the ether, as though it was lost by the family and then uploaded by an unknown person for an unknown reason. (http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/byrne/140207)
 
  • #742
Brief update posted today on the "keep Jahi McMath on life support" facebook site. (I won't link, but the site is easily searched.)

Snipped from post:







BBM. I wish it was possible to know how the admin poster on the FB site defines these BBM phrases.

------
My God cant they understand she is dead. I have to say this as I am warped~
If this wasn't such a serious sad situation it would be funny. A comedian would wreak havoc with it, and they cant see it. That poor child. :seeya:
 
  • #743
... Mrs Winkfield, in the foot moving video clip, says she does not understand how someone with brain death can move their feet.... not necessary to ascribe a magical explanation to something you don't understand, IMO. Especially when there is a scientifically proven explanation for the phenomena, that can be replicated over and over.

I don't completely understand how a microchip works, but also I don't believe a supernatural power named Siri is controlling my computer and iPhone. Nor do I believe Jeepus (GPS) is a supernatural power guiding me when I need to get somewhere....
BBM S...BM for focus

K_Z
Bingo, a great capsule of this controversy.
TYVM.
 
  • #744
Just an observation....but if the info at the link is accurate, Dr. Byrne has to be in his at least in his 80's.:waiting:

I wonder if someone will be taking over his drivel, when he retires.

eta: oops! Forgot to add the link: http://www.ucomparehealthcare.com/drs/paul_a_byrne/

---------
Hi Beginner, age is no excuse for him. I'm almost 82, no real education and I see it. He sees what he wants to see. I'm in Ohio never heard of him. They need more money. IMO. :banghead:
 
  • #745
Just an observation....but if the info at the link is accurate, Dr. Byrne has to be in his at least in his 80's.:waiting:

I wonder if someone will be taking over his drivel, when he retires.

eta: oops! Forgot to add the link: http://www.ucomparehealthcare.com/drs/paul_a_byrne/

I saw his CV somewhere in the court documents and IIRC his birth year was listed as 1937.
(Mrs. Bernice Jones assisted in writing this.)
I will hazard a guess that Bernice wrote most of it and that she is very pious but has little understanding of medicine.
 
  • #746
  • #747
I'm disturbed that he could be seeing patients and basing medical decisions on his beliefs.
 
  • #748
It's shocking to me, too. Like a mass delusion. Reminds me of the War of the Worlds broadcast.

I completely understand supporting the mother in her grief and distress. But I cannot understand the depths of extreme denial and intellectual ignorance that these people are engaging in. Mrs. Winkfield's denial is bad enough, but to have all these charlatans and intellectually challenged people enabling her denial is almost criminal, IMO.

RSBM & BBM - See "Groupthink":
What is Groupthink?

Groupthink, a term coined by social psychologist Irving Janis (1972), occurs when a group makes faulty decisions because group pressures lead to a deterioration of “mental efficiency, reality testing, and moral judgment” (p. 9). Groups affected by groupthink ignore alternatives and tend to take irrational actions that dehumanize other groups. A group is especially vulnerable to groupthink when its members are similar in background, when the group is insulated from outside opinions, and when there are no clear rules for decision making.

Symptoms of Groupthink

Janis has documented eight symptoms of groupthink:

  • Illusion of invulnerability –Creates excessive optimism that encourages taking extreme risks.
  • Collective rationalization – Members discount warnings and do not reconsider their assumptions.
  • Belief in inherent morality – Members believe in the rightness of their cause and therefore ignore the ethical or moral consequences of their decisions.
  • Stereotyped views of out-groups – Negative views of “enemy” make effective responses to conflict seem unnecessary.
  • Direct pressure on dissenters – Members are under pressure not to express arguments against any of the group’s views.
  • Self-censorship – Doubts and deviations from the perceived group consensus are not expressed.
  • Illusion of unanimity – The majority view and judgments are assumed to be unanimous.
  • Self-appointed ‘mindguards’ – Members protect the group and the leader from information that is problematic or contradictory to the group’s cohesiveness, view, and/or decisions.
When the above symptoms exist in a group that is trying to make a decision, there is a reasonable chance that groupthink will happen, although it is not necessarily so. Groupthink occurs when groups are highly cohesive and when they are under considerable pressure to make a quality decision. When pressures for unanimity seem overwhelming, members are less motivated to realistically appraise the alternative courses of action available to them. These group pressures lead to carelessness and irrational thinking since groups experiencing groupthink fail to consider all alternatives and seek to maintain unanimity. Decisions shaped by groupthink have low probability of achieving successful outcomes.

http://www.psysr.org/about/pubs_resources/groupthink%20overview.htm
 
  • #749
A close friend of mine had her (only child) son injured in a motorcycle accident (he was around 24). He was pronounced brain dead after two hour at the hospital. After a second opinion, she donate ever possible part of his body to be donated. Her son saved or enhanced no less then 8 lives that day.

Brain dead is brain dead. There is no evidence anyone has EVER come back from that, EVER! It is extremely sad to me that this has gone on as long as it has. This baby girl, wrong or right is gone in spirit and soul. This family is only holding her body hostage at this point. She could (could of) prolonged many lives. Tragedies happen, it's how you deal with them that defines not only you as a family, but how you define your child.

This may sound harsh to many of you, but if this were my Nikel, there would be very little of him to bury or cremate, most of my only (birth) child would have been donated to prolong someone else's life.


One of the ultimate gifts to another human being. I agree. What better way to honor a loved one


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
  • #750
Her ' continuous healing?' That is ridiculous. It is actually the exact opposite description of the stark reality.
 
  • #751
One of the ultimate gifts to another human being. I agree. What better way to honor a loved one


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I guess that is the hardest part for me to understand in this situation.

These people are making it about them, not the baby girl whose body is being manipulated. Her spirit and soul are gone. According to no less then 6 doctors that had no dog in this fight. I understand not wanting to let go, to try, to give every possible medical difference. Yet here we are, 6 Doc later and yet this child is still being kept alive by MEDICAL means. IVs, breathing tubes, feeding tubes?

They say it's about God, yet they have all these medical things they are admittedly adhering to. IMO it went from God's design to Peter Pan.
 
  • #752
I'm disturbed that he could be seeing patients and basing medical decisions on his beliefs.

I'm not sure how up to date the information on this site (http://www.healthgrades.com/physician/dr-paul-byrne-xqtk5/appointment) is, but FWIW people who are new patients are asked to check with Dr. Byrne before scheduling an appointment. He has two offices listed in Oregon, OH (a six mile drive from Toledo). According to this site he accepts seven different health care plans. He is listed as being associated with Mercy Saint Charles Hospital.
 
  • #753
Posted today.

http://postnewsgroup.com/blog/2014/...-childrens-hospitals-continued-insensitivity/

Oakland clergy are still demanding answers from Children’s Hospital Oakland in regards to the way they handled the case of Jahi McMath.

“…We watched the hospital spokesperson tell the public “there is no amount of hope, there is no amount of prayer, she is dead”; we watched as the hospital hired extra security for people who were hurting but demonstrated no violent behavior,” said Rev. Harold Mayberry of First A.M.E. Church in Oakland.

Does Reverand Mayberry believe that large crowds of people should be allowed to gather on private property (a pediatric hospital!) without ANY security or crowd control? Wouldn't that be irresponsible on the part of the hospital?

Does Reverand Mayberry believe that the staff and other families and patients have no rights to access and safety to a pediatric hospital, with large groups of people holding marches and occupying lobbies? Would he tolerate this at his church?

I personally don't think Reverand Mayberry understands the concept of the right to assemble peacefully. That right, just like freedom of speech, is not absolute. GRoups do not have the "right" to assemble on private property whenever they want, even if they are "not violent".

You can't yell fire in a crowded theater when there is no fire, and crowds do not have the "right" to assemble, and demonstrate, and "march on" a private pediatric hospital. CHO, IMO, was extremely tolerant of this behavior, when they probably should not have been.

The demonstrations could have taken place at, for example, Reverand Mayberry's church, right? Wouldn't that have been more appropriate than what these groups did on private hospital property?

They are LUCKY the hospital is willing to meet with them at all, conditions or not. IMO.
 
  • #754
from K_Z's linked article, just above:
"However, it wasn’t until the end of January, after clergy pointed out a breach in protocol by hospital staff that CEO Betram Lubin finally responded, according to Mayberry."

Does anyone know what the clergy pointed out as a 'breach of protocol'?

Thx in adv.:seeya:
 
  • #755
Rev. Mayberry has probably failed to look at or acknowledge the high Oakland crime rate:

Crime rate in Oakland, California (CA): murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, burglaries, thefts, auto thefts, arson, law enforcement employees, police officers, crime map
http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Oakland-California.html
 
  • #756
Also this is the caption of undated pix in K_Z's linked article, pub 02/09 just above:

"Rev. Dr. Harold R. Mayberry and other clergy members addressed the press about
complaints alleging Children's Hospital insensitive to the family of Jahi McMath."

And from article, as BBM and SBM:
"Oakland clergy are still demanding answers from Children’s Hospital Oakland
in regards to the way they handled the case of Jahi McMath."

"...“The hospital’s attempt to dilute our righteous concerns..." and

"Because the hospital is an important institution in the community, he said, the goal of the meeting
“was to attempt to bring healing to what has been a very painful situation for the community.”
said Rev M.

It puzzles me that Rev M still wants, ostensibly on behalf of Jahi's fam,
to intercede w hosp about its alleged insensitivity to fam.

Since late Dec, Jahi's mom has had legal counsel of her choice, filed a lawsuit
(re transfer and other petitions re other issues) to rep her interests.

IIRC, Rev M does not claim to be a pastor to Jahi, her mom, or any fam.
What the heck can Rev M or any other self-appted person do to rep Jahi or Jah's mom, esp now?

How about Rev M attempting to 'bring healing' to Jahi's fam, who does not seem to have
pastor or faith influences to help them ack. her death?

Just because Rev M's church and CHO in the same city,
does that somehow entitle Rev M to demand HIPAA-protected info re Jahi?

Why is Rev M making the kind of stmts that could reasonably be expected, if say, multiple hosp employees
all known to be suffering from bubonic plague, typhoid, malaria, yellow fever, German measles, and tuberculosis were
working there day in and day out and spreading diseases to ppl in the community.
Then Rev M's asking questions of CHO re public health concerns would seem reasonable, imo.

JM2cts and I could be wrong. :seeya:
 
  • #757
Posted today.

http://postnewsgroup.com/blog/2014/...-childrens-hospitals-continued-insensitivity/





Does Reverand Mayberry believe that large crowds of people should be allowed to gather on private property (a pediatric hospital!) without ANY security or crowd control? Wouldn't that be irresponsible on the part of the hospital?

Does Reverand Mayberry believe that the staff and other families and patients have no rights to access and safety to a pediatric hospital, with large groups of people holding marches and occupying lobbies? Would he tolerate this at his church?

I personally don't think Reverand Mayberry understands the concept of the right to assemble peacefully. That right, just like freedom of speech, is not absolute. GRoups do not have the "right" to assemble on private property whenever they want, even if they are "not violent".

You can't yell fire in a crowded theater when there is no fire, and crowds do not have the "right" to assemble, and demonstrate, and "march on" a private pediatric hospital. CHO, IMO, was extremely tolerant of this behavior, when they probably should not have been.

The demonstrations could have taken place at, for example, Reverand Mayberry's church, right? Wouldn't that have been more appropriate than what these groups did on private hospital property?

They are LUCKY the hospital is willing to meet with them at all, conditions or not. IMO.

BBM

Can someone explain to me on what basis the reverend is calling this meeting? Having a complaint about the way something was handled does not automatically justify a meeting to address the complaint, IMO. I'm not even sure what the complaint was.

I was uncomfortable with the demonstrations from the beginning because I felt that they were interfering with the hospital's normal routines and procedures as well as with other patients and visitors. Even if they were completely peaceful, the size of the group would have made navigating the ebtrances and exits much more difficult than normal for everyone. What a tremendously selfish act! And now this group feels like they deserve even more time and attention? Unbelievable.
 
  • #758
BBM

Can someone explain to me on what basis the reverend is calling this meeting? Having a complaint about the way something was handled does not automatically justify a meeting to address the complaint, IMO. I'm not even sure what the complaint was.

I was uncomfortable with the demonstrations from the beginning because I felt that they were interfering with the hospital's normal routines and procedures as well as with other patients and visitors. Even if they were completely peaceful, the size of the group would have made navigating the ebtrances and exits much more difficult than normal for everyone. What a tremendously selfish act! And now this group feels like they deserve even more time and attention? Unbelievable.

Rev. Mayberry may also be complaining that Jahi's own family was assigned security escorts.

The uncle, IIRC, made mention of this in interviews, as well as complaining that not all of the family ID's were identical (apparently some were laminated, and some weren't). NW complained that she was "bothered" by all of the people in the halls, lobbies, and waiting rooms, who wanted to touch her and pray with her, burning incense, wanting to see Jahi. The hospital had to provide security for Jahi and Jahi's own family from the very people THEY recruited on social media to come to the hospital!

I really hope that isn't what Rev. Mayberry is complaining about.
 
  • #759
BBM
Can someone explain to me on what basis the reverend is calling this meeting? Having a complaint about the way something was handled does not automatically justify a meeting to address the complaint, IMO. I'm not even sure what the complaint was.....
SBM for focus

ca2james
Your post did a good job of summarizing my looooooooooong post 756,
in which I asked about this same issue.
Thanks for boiling it down to the nitty gritty.
 
  • #760
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