Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #8

[Donjeta]

Cryogenics has to do with extremely cold temperatures. Freezing a dead family member might preserve their tissues but it certainly won't give the illusion that the person is not dead imo.

 

[MyBelle]

I'll say it - I don't believe there is any way someone diagnosed as "brain dead" turns themself. Not after 30 years as a critical care nurse who has handled a lot of "brain dead" folks. Spontaneous contractions of extremities ... maybe. Turning oneself from side to side ... nofreakinway!

I agree. I think the only possibility is that she was misdiagnosed yet multiple doctors all agreed.

 

[SwampMama]

It was reported on the Pray for Jahi FB page that Jahi has opened her eyes. but uncle posted that this was NOT true.

Ahh but never mind the truth, her believers believe in miracles and will no doubt have her appearing on dancing with the starts before long

 

[ArianeEmory]

Having a non-family member say it gives the family plausible deniability (and doesn't require them to provide proof) while still throwing crumbs to the faithful. No way someone posted that accidentally. JMO

 

[K_Z]

Dr. Paul Byrne has posted another article about Jahi today. (Did he hear me calling for him yesterday, lol?!) Dr. Byrne is not happy with the National Catholic Bioethics Center.

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/byrne/140318

Jahi McMath--accepting her life

[The following Response to "Jahi McMath and Determining Death," Ethics and Medics 39(3) March 2014, was submitted to National Catholic Bioethics Center (NCBC) for publication, which was denied.

This is about protecting Jahi and everyone, not only Catholics, but the NCBC has done nothing to protect or support Jahi, or anyone else in a similar condition.]

The Bureau of Vital Statistics recorded Jahi's death. It was the first time a death certificate was issued for someone with a beating heart and respiration. When a non-donor is declared "brain dead," a death certificate is not issued until there are no signs of life.

 

[Nore]

I wonder if anybody's explained these things to him. If someone is unconscious she does not understands her surroundings and react to guests. If someone does that she's not unconscious.

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Hi Donjeta, sounds like she is out of her "coma". Gee does she turn on command? This guy should be brought before a Judge, lets add a few more people. I cannot fathom what they believe and how they are allowed to say these things without verification. They are pitching for more money. Anyone who falls for it deserves to be taken. IMO only.:seeya:

 

[Nore]

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Family-says-brain-dead-Jahi-McMath-showing-signs-5319514.php

Family states she is turning in the direction when visitors enter the room. She can turn onto her side.
"I wish...I wish I believed in wishing wells." ~ Doctor Who

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Now this I gotta see!! I feel if she moved anything, moved to her side, she would be on the front page of newspapers. The fact that they talk but show nothing speaks volumes..:floorlaugh: :seeya:

 

[Frigga]

KZ, your wonderful post needs to be published in the newspaper ASAP. I so want this to be a miracle. Why won't they let us see too? Video footage would give NOTHING away in terms of her location. I am just perplexed.

 

[Linda7NJ]

When families are trying to preserve a dead family member, are they using cryogenics to preserve the body and give the illusion that the person is not dead? Cryogenics is used to inject water/moisture. It's a relatively cheap.

Cryogenics the body ( or head some opt for just their head & spine) is stored in a cylinder ...ya can't see the body at all.



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[al66pine]

O/T but to clarify (thru wiki, FWIW, w. my bolding)

Cryonics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia "low-temperature preservation of humans
who cannot be sustained by contemporary medicine, with the hope that healing and resuscitation may be possible in the future."
"The most famous known cryopreserved patient is baseball player Ted Williams."

Cryopreservation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"the low-temperature preservation of living tissue and organisms in general"

 

[Charlie09]

I wonder if anybody's explained these things to him. If someone is unconscious she does not understands her surroundings and react to guests. If someone does that she's not unconscious.

My brother was still unconscious (comatose for 75 days) but he would flip his head to the side of the bed where I was sitting and speaking from. The doctors saw it and still said he was in a comatose status.

I have to admit I'm pulling for Jahi, but I hope her parents and siblings are prepared to deal with the brain damage that may be done.

 

[Catmommy]

With all due respect, dear, comatose and brain dead are two completely different things.

 

[MissJ]

My MIL died after eight years in a PVS. She was not even brain dead but she could not turn herself or move spontaneously. She did not turn toward voices either. She appeared to be very miserable. Thin and wasted looking with muscle shrinkage. My SO cried when he would go see her and she appeared to cry too. Such a sad state. But she was NOT brain dead. JMO but sounds like someone is imagining things to ...er...uh....get the money train rolling through. (my MIL breathed on her own and was tube fed but still looking very bad).

 

[AnaTeresa]

With all due respect, dear, comatose and brain dead are two completely different things.

That's really condescending, and not necessary.

I think, after eight threads, we all know that there is a difference between a comatose state and being brain dead. Charlie was responding to Donjeta's idea that if someone is turning their head toward someone/noise, then it is being consciously done - which Charlie was pointing out, it can also be done by someone in a coma, who is lacking conscious thought.

 

[Tawny]

My brother was still unconscious (comatose for 75 days) but he would flip his head to the side of the bed where I was sitting and speaking from. The doctors saw it and still said he was in a comatose status.

I have to admit I'm pulling for Jahi, but I hope her parents and siblings are prepared to deal with the brain damage that may be done.

With all due respect, dear, comatose and brain dead are two completely different things.

Not to mention the recent revelation that comatose may not mean unconscious in every case.

I'm specifically thinking of the case of the man who was in a coma, woke up years later, and revealed he had heard everything happening around him and was aware.

 

[Linda7NJ]

O/T but to clarify (thru wiki, FWIW, w. my bolding)

Cryonics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia "low-temperature preservation of humans
who cannot be sustained by contemporary medicine, with the hope that healing and resuscitation may be possible in the future."
"The most famous known cryopreserved patient is baseball player Ted Williams."

Cryopreservation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"the low-temperature preservation of living tissue and organisms in general"

Agreed.

I was only trying to point out that there is no way that would make her appear to be alive.


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[gitana1]

According to this article, Jahi is displaying signs of being "alive". Ok, I will accept that they believe this. However......

If this is so, Attorney Dolan has some serious work to do, like right now. He needs to petition the courts for an emergency hearing to declare Jahi "alive" legally, because right now, she has a death certificate and is "dead". He has a professional duty to the family he represents to do this, IMO, especially since he is essentially corroborating what Uncle Omari Sealey is putting out to the public. He also has a professional ethical obligation to do this on behalf of Jahi, who is as medically and legally vulnerable as someone can get-- dead or alive.

It would be a simple matter for a Judge to order 2 world class neurologists to examine Jahi at her secret location, and with transport to a hospital with imaging capabilities. Once those physicians have made their determination, they can report back to the court, and Jahi can be declared legally alive-- if she actually is. And her death certificate could be nullified.

I am actually very serious about this, because if Jahi is "alive", there are many, many legal, medical, social, and financial matters that need to be attended to. For example, if she is "alive", she qualifies for medical care to be paid for, she has tax status as a dependent, she may be eligible for some kind of social security, etc. She has rights and entitlements as a living person that are not afforded to the dead.

And, of course, if she is "alive", she would be the very first person with conclusive medical documentation and diagnostic imaging proving she was "dead" in December 2013, and is now "alive" and recovering in March 2014. This is no small matter.

Where is Dr. Paul Byrne NOW, when his services are so desperately needed? You see, if Jahi is alive, then there is actually some validation of his theories that there is no such thing as brain death, and organ procurement and transplantation is evil and cruel. Where is he?? I really want to hear from him now! He could be coordinating Jahi's neurologic evaluation to prove she is alive and making purposeful movement!

And imagine the donations for the family that might pour in, to help with her rehab and care, and family hardships, if she is indeed alive, and is declared legally alive? There might be interest in producing a documentary, that I suspect Uncle Omari Sealey might be interested in pursuing. There are so many advantages to Jahi being alive, I can't imagine why the family would not want to officially establish this? It would be the ulitimate "win-win" situation for Jahi, Nailah and her family, Attorney Dolan, CHO, and all of the medical profession. Alive is a miracle-- but even miracles need to be verified.

(I think even the Catholic church requires miracles to be verified for beatification, etc. Dr. Byrne might know more about that. It would be to his advantage to have these claims verified.)

I'm sure you are serious and I know yours is a popular sentiment. But it is not based in fact or law. He family attorney has no duty, ethically or otherwise, to attempt to have a court reverse Jahi's certified death.

 

[Donjeta]

That's really condescending, and not necessary.

I think, after eight threads, we all know that there is a difference between a comatose state and being brain dead. Charlie was responding to Donjeta's idea that if someone is turning their head toward someone/noise, then it is being consciously done - which Charlie was pointing out, it can also be done by someone in a coma, who is lacking conscious thought.

Reactions to immediate stimuli may be automatic and unthinking and in some cases even spinally mediated in a brain dead person but he said that she definitely knows where she is and is aware of who is present. If someone has that kind of awareness of his or her surroundings it requires some degree of consciousness by definition.

 

[jjenny]

I'm sure you are serious and I know yours is a popular sentiment. But it is not based in fact or law. He family attorney has not duty, ethically or otherwise, to attempt to have a court reverse Jahi's certified death.

I presume there is nothing this lawyer would like more than to reverse her certified death and have her declared alive.
Considering there is a limit on how much money one can get for medical mistake if the patient is dead. But not on how much one can get if patient is alive but severely disabled.
If there was any evidence she wasn't actually dead, I presume that lawyer would jump on it in a second.

 

[Donjeta]

It seems like it would be in the best interests of the family to find somebody to help them reverse the death certificate as being alive would give her the status of a disabled person.