Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #9

[MyBelle]

If she had been retested, and her brain was 'no longer dead', the family would be shouting from the roof tops. There would be links on her donation sites. There would be press conferences, imo.

I doubt the family would do anything other than they are doing, which is letting their lawyer guide their strategy. I don't believe his strategy is going to be that her brain experienced some kind of miracle repair, I think it will be that Children's got it wrong in the first place and it was never dead. We'll see what his next step is going to be....

JMO

 

[katydid23]

If tests were always 100% right--and medical opinions always 100% in agreement--is it your position that a parent should never bother obtaining a second opinion? Didn't Justina Pelletier's parents have the right to question and obtain other medical opinions? I'm having trouble understanding your position.

I do believe a parent does have a right to question a diagnosis and to seek other opinions.

JMO

I think the family was given about 6 separate opinions by various experts. It was not just one opinion. The court ordered some '2nd' opinions to be given and the family atty chose the specialist.

 

[jjenny]

If tests were always 100% right--and medical opinions always 100% in agreement--is it your position that a parent should never bother obtaining a second opinion? Didn't Justina Pelletier's parents have the right to question and obtain other medical opinions? I'm having trouble understanding your position.

I do believe a parent does have a right to question a diagnosis and to seek other opinions.

JMO

These parents did seek other opinions. Multiple doctors examined Jahi. They all reached the same conclusion.

 

[Quester]

Serious question - I'm curious to know the answer:

If CA-coroner-declared-brain-dead-Jahi in ambulance had just arrived/shown up, unannounced/no prearrangement to the Catholic NJ hospital emergency entrance, would/could the hospital have turned her away? TIA

 

[Nore]

Childrens wasn't the only neurologists that did testing. Jahi was tested by independent neurologists with no interest in the case. They all agreed on the findings. The latter testing was done in January I believe.


-------
I hope everyone has been with this case from get go. Otherwise it can be oh so confusing.
So many months have passed sometimes I forget. I do remember the head of Nursing at the
hopsital testified Jahi had in Feburary I believe passed through rectum part of her gut/intestine.
This is stated in court papers which are in with her medical papers (can never remember the name
of the file). Those pages deserve reading even by me. It is too easy to forget with so much being
said. As I have said before my main concern is other poor souls being caught up in doing the same
thing. To that extent it is better not to publish anything. I hope everyone understands what I am trying
to say.

 

[MyBelle]

These parents did seek other opinions. Multiple doctors examined Jahi. They all reached the same conclusion.

Are parents required to accept the opinions? Are they not allowed to remove their child from the care of doctors they disagree with or do not trust? Didn't a Judge allow Jahi's mother to do that? Hasn't a Judge allowed the Pelletier's child to return to their care? I'm still not understanding your position.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Serious question - I'm curious to know the answer:

If CA-coroner-declared-brain-dead-Jahi in ambulance had just arrived/shown up, unannounced/no prearrangement to the Catholic NJ hospital emergency entrance, would/could the hospital have turned her away? TIA

I'm pretty sure any hospital can refuse to admit a legally dead person but maybe one of our legal experts will weigh in.

 

[Quester]

I'm pretty sure any hospital can refuse to admit a legally dead person but maybe one of our legal experts will weigh in.

Thanks.

Since Jahi was declared brain-dead in CA, would NJ with their unique laws in this matter accept the CA brain-dead declaration? TIA

 

[MyBelle]

Thanks.

Since Jahi was declared brain-dead in CA, would NJ with their unique laws in this matter accept the CA brain-dead declaration? TIA

I doubt they would accept it if physicians saw evidence with their own eyes that she isn't brain dead. The hospital isn't talking and the lawyer is merely hinting at what is to come so who knows what is going on...

 

[Yoda]

Have they said what hospital she is in? I find it hard to believe she is in a catholic hospital.jmo

 

[Yoda]

Um...whiskey tango foxtrot. Is this MSM?
http://syndicatednews.net/jahi_preparations/

 

[MyBelle]

Have they said what hospital she is in? I find it hard to believe she is in a catholic hospital.jmo

Months after she was taken out of Children’s Hospital Oakland in a dispute over life support, KPIX 5 learned Wednesday that Jahi McMath is in a Catholic children’s hospital in New Brunswick, New Jersey. Jahi is in the pediatric ICU of Saint Peter’s University Hospital System.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...i-mcmath-after-lawyer-said-girl-is-improving/

 

[Nore]

Hi Yoda, the facility has been named. (Ahem) I forget the name! It will be listed in a letter
at media pages. Somehow st. Peter or Paul ring a bell. I will check.

 

[al66pine]

From my earlier post:
On other part of same post, I'm not followinglogic on the this:
".... If she's in a hospital ICU being run by theCatholic church, I think there is a good possibility those tests weren'taccurate...."

I can't help you see the logic in my post. The link is pretty self-explanatory....
JMO

. SBM


MyBelle,
Thanks very much for your response which helps me follow your rationale.
Essentially you're saying the NJ hosp docs & administrators think (believe?) it's possible the earlier tests were not accurate.

Lets say hypothetically, one poorly trained, inexperienced GP in a 25 bed gen hosp in Smalltown USA declared her braindead
(apologies to any med professional, as I have no idea what tests such a hypothetical doc would perform to reach that conclusion).
If she had been declared braindead by one doc, it would be easier to understand NJ docs & admins thinking -
there's a good possibility those tests weren't accurate, so we'll admit Jahi to our hosp.

Given all the tests performed by Oakland hosp's multiple highly trained & experienced specialist MDs, over a period of weeks,
is it possible the NJ docs & admins thought -
there's a one in a million possibility those tests weren't accurate? Or one in a trillion? Maybe one in a hundred? or one in ten? IDK.
And I recognize some would think that is a basis for admitting Jahi to the NJ hosp.

Again, thanks for explaining.

 

[MyBelle]

From my earlier post:
On other part of same post, I'm not followinglogic on the this:
".... If she's in a hospital ICU being run by theCatholic church, I think there is a good possibility those tests weren'taccurate...."

. SBM


MyBelle,
Thanks very much for your response which helps me follow your rationale.
Essentially you're saying the NJ hosp docs & administrators think (believe?) it's possible the earlier tests were not accurate.

Lets say hypothetically, one poorly trained, inexperienced GP in a 25 bed gen hosp in Smalltown USA declared her braindead
(apologies to any med professional, as I have no idea what tests such a hypothetical doc would perform to reach that conclusion).
If she had been declared braindead by one doc, it would be easier to understand NJ docs & admins thinking -
there's a good possibility those tests weren't accurate, so we'll admit Jahi to our hosp.

Given all the tests performed by Oakland hosp's multiple highly trained & experienced specialist MDs, over a period of weeks,
is it possible the NJ docs & admins thought -
there's a one in a million possibility those tests weren't accurate? Or one in a trillion? Maybe one in a hundred? or one in ten? IDK.
And I recognize some would think that is a basis for admitting Jahi to the NJ hosp.

Again, thanks for explaining.

I think the only basis for admitting Jahi is that physicians did their own tests. No hospital that I know of is going to admit a patient to an ICU based on the possibility a legally dead person might improve because as far as I know, it isn't a possibility ever. I've never met a doctor who believes that a possibility. I sure don't. They discharge patients to hospice care, not the other way around. They do DNR orders on hopeless cases.

The way I interpret his comments is that Dolan has suggested there is a possibility there is a medical reason those tests weren't accurate 8-months ago and that's why he wants her retested. The Catholic Church has accepted brain death determinations as legal death so there must be something more the physicians see with Jahi and that's why they admitted her. They must have repeated the tests. That's the only explanation I can come up with for admitting her.

JMO

 

[jjenny]

I think the only basis for admitting Jahi is that physicians did their own tests. No hospital that I know of is going to admit a patient to an ICU based on the possibility a legally dead person might improve because as far as I know, it isn't a possibility ever. I've never met a doctor who believes that a possibility. I sure don't. They discharge patients to hospice care, not the other way around. They do DNR orders on hopeless cases.

The way I interpret his comments is that Dolan has suggested there is a possibility there is a medical reason those tests weren't accurate 8-months ago and that's why he wants her retested. The Catholic Church has accepted brain death determinations as legal death so there must be something more the physicians see with Jahi and that's why they admitted her. They must have repeated the tests. That's the only explanation I can come up with for admitting her.

JMO

Dolan says he wanted her retested. If she was already tested there would be no point for him to claim he wants her tested again. And if any tests showed she wasn't actually brain dead, certainly there is no reason for him to not say so.
As for physicians supposedly repeating the tests before admitting patient, wouldn't they have to admit the patient first before carrying out the tests?

 

[jjenny]

Are parents required to accept the opinions? Are they not allowed to remove their child from the care of doctors they disagree with or do not trust? Didn't a Judge allow Jahi's mother to do that? Hasn't a Judge allowed the Pelletier's child to return to their care? I'm still not understanding your position.

JMO

Judge allowed Jahi's mother to disagree. The fact that her mother disagrees doesn't make Jahi to not be brain dead. She is brain dead whether her mother agrees with it or not. I fail to see any connection to Pelletier case, so I am not sure why it should be discussed on this thread.

 

[katydid23]

I think the only basis for admitting Jahi is that physicians did their own tests. No hospital that I know of is going to admit a patient to an ICU based on the possibility a legally dead person might improve because as far as I know, it isn't a possibility ever. I've never met a doctor who believes that a possibility. I sure don't. They discharge patients to hospice care, not the other way around. They do DNR orders on hopeless cases.

The way I interpret his comments is that Dolan has suggested there is a possibility there is a medical reason those tests weren't accurate 8-months ago and that's why he wants her retested. The Catholic Church has accepted brain death determinations as legal death so there must be something more the physicians see with Jahi and that's why they admitted her. They must have repeated the tests. That's the only explanation I can come up with for admitting her.

JMO

Her body was in California. And it was flown across country where it was placed in a medi-vac vehicle and driven to this specific hospital. They must have gotten permission to bring her there before leaving California. So no new tests could have been given before she arrived on scene. jmo

 

[MyBelle]

Dolan says he wanted her retested. If she was already tested there would be no point for him to claim he wants her tested again. And if any tests showed she wasn't actually brain dead, certainly there is no reason for him to not say so.
As for physicians supposedly repeating the tests before admitting patient, wouldn't they have to admit the patient first before carrying out the tests?

He has a strategy and can say what he wants, when he wants. I think any ER has the capability of running any necessary tests prior to admitting as an inpatient. My daughter had an EEG in an ER prior to being admitted.

JMO

JMO

 

[katydid23]

He has a strategy and can say what he wants, when he wants. I think any ER has the capability of running any necessary tests prior to admitting as an inpatient. My daughter had an EEG in an ER prior to being admitted.

JMO

JMO

So you think the ER did brain scans and decided she was not brain dead, before they admitted her?