Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #9

[al66pine]

.... Dolan said he would now like a re-test........“They said definitively that this young girl’s body will shut down,” Dolan said. “That her organs will fail. That her brain will liquefy and come out of her nose. They told that to the public to justify taking Jahi off life support. That has just not happened. “
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...nd-brain-dead-life-support-christopher-dolan/
JMO

. SBM

In linked June 18 article, did Dolan actually say he or family would now like re-test? If so, I missed it. Anyone? Any MSM link?

Stmts & quotes maybe, kinda, sorta hint that re-test would show different result.
But not explicitly request retest by Dolan or family.
"Dolan, however, does insist that Jahi’s condition has gotten so much better that he says her family would now consider moving her out of the hospital ICU.“I would say that may be a discussion that I could see potentially happening,” Dolan said. “Because of Jahi’s improvement, she may need a lower level of care.”
"Dolan said he has recently watched Jahi look in the direction of her mother’s voice and even move specific parts of her body that her mother asked her to move.
“They said definitively that this young girl’s body will shut down,” Dolan said. “That her organs will fail. That her brain will liquefy and come out of her nose.
They told that to the public to justify taking Jahi off life support. That has just not happened. “

JM2cts and I may be wrong.
================================================================
ETA
MyBelle, My apologies.
The text states:
Several experts examined her before declaring her dead. The Alameda County coroner even issued her a death certificate. Dolan said he would now like a re-test. [ed: I was wrong; it is in text of article]
“They may show something different than when Jahi was under the most acute stress of swelling of the brain and lack of food and nutrition,” Dolan said. “The family is confident that they have seen signs of Jahi responding to voice commands and acting in a way much different than she did in Oakland.

Vid clip does not include Dolan stating on camera that he or fam requests a re-test.
Vid clip includes Dolan commenting to the effect that new tests now might have different results from mo's ago (my paraphrasing).

Imo, based on Dolan's comments, the reporter wrote - Dolan said he would now like a re-test.
Again jmo, just my interpretation, and others may agree. Or not.
I wish this would be the last mistake I'll ever make but somehow I doubt it.

 

[MyBelle]

. SBM

In linked June 18 article, did Dolan actually say he or family would now like re-test? If so, I missed it. Anyone? Any MSM link?

Stmts & quotes maybe, kinda, sorta hint that re-test would show different result.
But not explicitly request retest by Dolan or family.
"Dolan, however, does insist that Jahi’s condition has gotten so much better that he says her family would now consider moving her out of the hospital ICU.“I would say that may be a discussion that I could see potentially happening,” Dolan said. “Because of Jahi’s improvement, she may need a lower level of care.”
"Dolan said he has recently watched Jahi look in the direction of her mother’s voice and even move specific parts of her body that her mother asked her to move.
“They said definitively that this young girl’s body will shut down,” Dolan said. “That her organs will fail. That her brain will liquefy and come out of her nose.
They told that to the public to justify taking Jahi off life support. That has just not happened. “

JM2cts and I may be wrong.

It says it in the link I provided, which is a MSM. It is in the direct quote text of the article but there is also a video that I can't open on this computer.

Several experts examined her before declaring her dead. The Alameda County coroner even issued her a death certificate. Dolan said he would now like a re-test.

“They may show something different than when Jahi was under the most acute stress of swelling of the brain and lack of food and nutrition,” Dolan said. “The family is confident that they have seen signs of Jahi responding to voice commands and acting in a way much different than she did in Oakland.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...nd-brain-dead-life-support-christopher-dolan/

 

[al66pine]

Are they giving false hope? Is it impossible that the tests 8-months ago that determined brain death maybe weren't accurate? If she's in a hospital ICU being run by the Catholic church, I think there is a good possibility those tests weren't accurate. Her attorney has said he'd like her to be re-tested. ....
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...nd-brain-dead-life-support-christopher-dolan/
JMO

. SBM

On other part of same post, I'm not following logic on the this:".... If she's in a hospital ICU being run by the Catholic church, I think there is a good possibility those tests weren't accurate...."

I interpret "those tests" as referring to tests before her discharge from Cal. hosp, w some doctors chosen by Oakland hospital and
at least one doctor chosen w the concurrence (approval?) of Jahi's mom & atty.
How is there a 'good possibility those tests weren't accurate?' Not accurate then?
Jahi's mom passed her chance to dispute accuracy of those tests then and instead chose to remove Jahi from hosp.
Yes, months have passed since then, but that does not mean tests were inaccurate when taken in Dec. 2013 or Jan 2014.

How does her current placement in Catholic hospital (or anywhere -
nursing home, rehab facility, relative's back bedroom, Native American sweat lodge, Muslim mosque, Jewish temple, or Motel 6)
relate to whether those tests mo's ago are/were accurate? Imo, it does not.

If the intent was to argue for new testsbased on her changed/improved condition
argue away & let hosp & docs conduct new tests.
But her purported placement in Catholic hosp does not render earlier test results inaccurate or invalid, imo.

Has anyone seen Jahi's mom or fam SocMedia statements asking for new tests? Not that I'm aware of.
Do they claim 'improved' condition? Yes.
video clips showing Jahi (other than foot or hand closeup)? Not that I'm aware of.

JM2cts and I could be wrong.

 

[K_Z]

Are they giving false hope? Is it impossible that the tests 8-months ago that determined brain death maybe weren't accurate? If she's in a hospital ICU being run by the Catholic church, I think there is a good possibility those tests weren't accurate. Her attorney has said he'd like her to be re-tested.

Dolan said he would now like a re-test........“They said definitively that this young girl’s body will shut down,” Dolan said. “That her organs will fail. That her brain will liquefy and come out of her nose. They told that to the public to justify taking Jahi off life support. That has just not happened. “
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...nd-brain-dead-life-support-christopher-dolan/


JMO

Whether the actions of this catholic hospital are false hope, or charity, is a whole other discussion, IMO. Actually-- an interesting topic. Are they doing this for the person that was Jahi, or doing this for the benefit of the family? Maybe they would say "both". But I think the charity and kindness of this hospital is for the benefit of the family (specifically, NW), not Jahi.

I wish they would do comprehensive retesting, and make it all public. Because she is now a medical oddity, due to her family's behavior. Re-testing would bring in more donations-- rejuvenate their faithful, as well as establish with certainty that she remains brain dead. But I'd bet a pile of money NW will NEVER agree to any kind of scientific medical re-testing. No way, IMO.

If the family were truly open to comprehensive re-testing, they would not have to pay a dime for it, IMO. There has never been a single patient with her thoroughly medically documented brain death that has regained any brain function at all.

Lots of hospitals and neurological specialists (doctors) would very likely volunteer their time and expertise to have the opportunity to re-test Jahi's brain for any evidence of electrical activity, blood flow, or function.

A de-nervated donor heart can beat for decades in the immunologically hostile environment of a host body recipient (even a good match is immunologically hostile). What we are seeing is a relatively healthy 13 year old heart that was not damaged too badly from her cardiac arrest and rapid resuscitation, that continues to beat in the native brain dead body.

I believe in medical science, and I don't believe the legally mandated repeated battery of sophisticated tests were wrong in Dec 2013. I'd be interested in the results today, but I also am confident that they would not show anything new, hopeful, or any degree of recovery since Dec 2013. She was brain dead then, as she is today. They are maintaining her body for a while with the ventilator and feeding tube, and the "$240/ week" vitamins and fish oil that apparently give NW some false hope.

My understanding is that the liquefied brain will not leak out of any orifices unless the dura is damaged or deteriorates, and that the liquefied brain re-congeals after a period of time and settles inside the skull into a smallish lump of waxy, rubbery mass of cellular debris. (Comparable to what was found at autopsy for Terri Schiavo, and the boy liked in this thread that survived with somatic support for 20 years after succumbing to meningitis at age 4.) <--- Sorry for graphic description.

Jahi is dead, and the catholic hospital is just being charitable and kind, to care for the body, IMO. I don't think THEY think Jahi is alive or recovering, either. I think they are just being nice, and offering a refuge to the family, and a dignified environment. I guess I'm glad the catholic hospital is willing to absorb these enormous costs, but I do think they may have inadvertently set a troubling precedent, if other families with brain dead relatives seek them out to board and care for the bodies of their loved ones.

 

[popsicle]

Has Dolan actually seen her in person? How does Jahi's family figure they are the ones to make the decision whether or not to move her out of the ICU...seriosuly?

 

[katydid23]

If my daughter had been declared brain dead, and yet months later, she could follow voice commands, and move the body parts that I asked her to move, and could follow my voice to look at my face, you can bet that I would have taken video of such miracles. And I would personally urge the previous mistaken doctors to come and see her amazing progress. I would have new tests done immediately. :waitasec:

 

[MyBelle]

. SBM

On other part of same post, I'm not following logic on the this:".... If she's in a hospital ICU being run by the Catholic church, I think there is a good possibility those tests weren't accurate...."

I interpret "those tests" as referring to tests before her discharge from Cal. hosp, w some doctors chosen by Oakland hospital and
at least one doctor chosen w the concurrence (approval?) of Jahi's mom & atty.
How is there a 'good possibility those tests weren't accurate?' Not accurate then?
Jahi's mom passed her chance to dispute accuracy of those tests then and instead chose to remove Jahi from hosp.
Yes, months have passed since then, but that does not mean tests were inaccurate when taken in Dec. 2013 or Jan 2014.

How does her current placement in Catholic hospital (or anywhere -
nursing home, rehab facility, relative's back bedroom, Native American sweat lodge, Muslim mosque, Jewish temple, or Motel 6)
relate to whether those tests mo's ago are/were accurate? Imo, it does not.

If the intent was to argue for new testsbased on her changed/improved condition
argue away & let hosp & docs conduct new tests.
But her purported placement in Catholic hosp does not render earlier test results inaccurate or invalid, imo.

Has anyone seen Jahi's mom or fam SocMedia statements asking for new tests? Not that I'm aware of.
Do they claim 'improved' condition? Yes.
video clips showing Jahi (other than foot or hand closeup)? Not that I'm aware of.

JM2cts and I could be wrong.

I can't help you see the logic in my post. The link is pretty self-explanatory.

Do you really believe a hospital ICU would admit someone if the admitting physician determined the patient was legally dead? I sure don't. Hospitals are required to meet a standard of care. She's not being cared for at home. ICU care is very expensive and somebody is paying for it.

My opinion is based on my past employment at a Catholic hospital. They don't extend financial charity to dead people. I also don't believe the hospital will publicly reveal the results of medical tests done on the patient because of privacy reasons. The hospital doesn't have to "argue" with anybody to do any testing. And if the mother is saying now she wants to apply for Medicaid, then that tells me those tests may have already been done because the feds don't extend financial charity to dead people, either.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

If my daughter had been declared brain dead, and yet months later, she could follow voice commands, and move the body parts that I asked her to move, and could follow my voice to look at my face, you can bet that I would have taken video of such miracles. And I would personally urge the previous mistaken doctors to come and see her amazing progress. I would have new tests done immediately. :waitasec:

And if I believed my child was misdiagnosed by a previous hospital, I would not only take such videos, I would use them as evidence in a civil lawsuit. My guess will be that is the next step. I just don't see their lawyer talking about re-testing unless he already knows the results of the tests.

JMO

 

[Donjeta]

Well it was a month and a half ago that Dolan said they wanted Jahi retested and she's in a Catholic hospital so if that's really truly what they want I don't see why it couldn't have been done by now many times over.

 

[jjenny]

I can't help you see the logic in my post. The link is pretty self-explanatory.

Do you really believe a hospital ICU would admit someone if the admitting physician determined the patient was legally dead? I sure don't. Hospitals are required to meet a standard of care. She's not being cared for at home. ICU care is very expensive and somebody is paying for it.

My opinion is based on my past employment at a Catholic hospital. They don't extend financial charity to dead people. I also don't believe the hospital will publicly reveal the results of medical tests done on the patient because of privacy reasons. The hospital doesn't have to "argue" with anybody to do any testing. And if the mother is saying now she wants to apply for Medicaid, then that tells me those tests may have already been done because the feds don't extend financial charity to dead people, either.

JMO

She is not legally dead in New Jersey, because they are the only state that allow relatives to decide whether to consider brain dead person as dead or not.
It doesn't mean she isn't brain dead. In all other states she would be legally dead, except New Jersey.
Basically, lots of resources are being spend to maintain the body with a dead brain, because there is no recovery for the brain once it dies.

 

[MyBelle]

Well it was a month and a half ago that Dolan said they wanted Jahi retested and she's in a Catholic hospital so if that's really truly what they want I don't see why it couldn't have been done by now many times over.

I have no doubt the testing has already been done. I've yet to see a lawyer say something to the media that he didn't already know the answer to.

She's not just in a Catholic hospital, she is in an accredited university-affiliated teaching hospital. Physicians, nurses, technicians from all faiths or no faith practice and are educated there. No way is she there just because they feel sorry for her family. Nor is she there because the hospital believes she will receive the gift of a miracle.

JMO

 

[Nore]

Jahis' mother is running things now. Why doesn't she have her retested? Brain dead was
not the word of a Doctor. I believe it was the word of Five or Six Doctors. Ct scans,EEgs'
and many more tests were done before they declared her brain dead. One cannot bring
the dead back to life. Have you ever had a loved one undergo these tests? Have you spoke
to the Neurologist? I have, mine was not brain dead. An area OF his brain had an infarction.
It hurts and my heart goes out to her mom, yes I feel her pain, buried two children but the
truth is the truth. To fnd out if Jahi is still with us, take her off the ventilator, if she is alive
she will show it. I was faced with that also not too long ago, husbands heart gave two weak
beats and that was it. I loved him, he deserved the dignity of peace in his death. What has
helped me a lot is my deep belief in life after death~ in that Joe is now with our children..:rose:

 

[jjenny]

I have no doubt the testing has already been done. I've yet to see a lawyer say something to the media that he didn't already know the answer to.

She's not just in a Catholic hospital, she is in an accredited university-affiliated teaching hospital. Physicians, nurses, technicians from all faiths or no faith practice and are educated there. No way is she there just because they feel sorry for her family. Nor is she there because the hospital believes she will receive the gift of a miracle.

JMO

Really? I've seen lawyers say things to media that were blatantly false.

 

[MyBelle]

She is not legally dead in New Jersey, because they are the only state that allow relatives to decide whether to consider brain dead person as dead or not.
It doesn't mean she isn't brain dead. In all other states she would be legally dead, except New Jersey.
Basically, lots of resources are being spend to maintain the body with a dead brain, because there is no recovery for the brain once it dies.

She is legally dead in California so she's legally dead in New Jersey. According to one of the links posted up thread, her death certificate is filed in California. I just don't believe she would have been admitted in New Jersey if the physicians there believed she's brain dead. I don't see Cali over-turning that death certificate without medical tests that show she isn't brain dead.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Really? I've seen lawyers say things to media that were blatantly false.

I said I think he already knows the answer.

JMO

 

[jjenny]

She is legally dead in California so she's legally dead in New Jersey. According to one of the links posted up thread, her death certificate is filed in California. I just don't believe she would have been admitted in New Jersey if the physicians there believed she's brain dead. I don't see Cali over-turning that death certificate without medical tests that show she isn't brain dead.

JMO

New Jersey's law is different from the rest of the country when it comes to brain death.
Her death certificate in CA was never overturned, so I don't understand what you are saying there.

 

[jjenny]

I said I think he already knows the answer.

JMO

The answer was told to him 8 months ago, when she was tested by multiple doctors, all of whom declared her brain dead.

 

[katydid23]

I have no doubt the testing has already been done. I've yet to see a lawyer say something to the media that he didn't already know the answer to.

She's not just in a Catholic hospital, she is in an accredited university-affiliated teaching hospital. Physicians, nurses, technicians from all faiths or no faith practice and are educated there. No way is she there just because they feel sorry for her family. Nor is she there because the hospital believes she will receive the gift of a miracle.

JMO

If she had been retested, and her brain was 'no longer dead', the family would be shouting from the roof tops. There would be links on her donation sites. There would be press conferences, imo.

 

[Nore]

K_Z,:tyou:

 

[MyBelle]

The answer was told to him 8 months ago, when she was tested by multiple doctors, all of whom declared her brain dead.

If tests were always 100% right--and medical opinions always 100% in agreement--is it your position that a parent should never bother obtaining a second opinion? Didn't Justina Pelletier's parents have the right to question and obtain other medical opinions? I'm having trouble understanding your position.

I do believe a parent does have a right to question a diagnosis and to seek other opinions.

JMO