Fiber Analysis

[beach]

Here is the black dress photo I was remembering.

This photo was taken either on June 13th or June 20th, 2008 according to the photographers' statements to GVS - relevant transcript portions here (One date was the black dress and the other was the infamous blue dress, I think)


Although, I gotta say, it doesn't look like any dress CA would have owned. A little low cut, iykwim. :innocent:

Looks very Casey to me. lol cute dress though, fwiw


Credit and thanks to my daughter, babycat, for helping me dig for this info & pic. :blowkiss:

 

[BondJamesBond]

:slap: me for not thinking of this earlier.

Obviously need to scrutinize this dress for potential to contain some wool. I would expect that to be UNlikely, but, worth considering closely.

There's work to do here, but, consider that disposal day was 6/20 IMHO based on several independent factors I can't list now. Tape w/ adhesive-side fibers from this dress would seem to suggest tape application 6/20. :shocked2:

Also re: WTP blanket work to do. Perhaps it was retrieved simply to "hold" the body for the transfer into the plastic that afternoon.

Much to consider. :waitasec:

 

[beach]

Okay, the black dress pic must have been taken on June 13, 2008 because after reading the GVS entire transcript, he confirms the blue dress photo was taken on the 20th.

PIPER: In some of the photos that I had, which -- I don't know -- I don't know what photos you guys have.

KELLY: Ours are from June 20.

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: Ours are from June 20. She's in the blue dress.

About 1/2 way down in this link

 

[BondJamesBond]

FYI...per Nate, IIRC, Casey changed clothes 6/20 before the hot body contest.

Borrowing from Mom2Chloe's post on the 6/20 Ping thread:

From Nate's interview with LE,
"So she changed. At that point she had like a skirt in her car or something. So she changed into that blue outfit at that point. Based at the realization that hey, I’m about to get on stage and do some dancing she did proceed to pound some shots and some drinks before she got up on stage to I think."
Could someone explain pings 15 and 16 to me? Ping 15 at 9:30pm is east of Fusion, while ping 16 is west of Fusion and covers 9:32 to 11:23. Would she ping both towers while still at Fusion, or does this indicate she was traveling even if only for a short time? I ask because when I reread the Nate interview, I did not remember the statement that she went out to her car to change from a skirt into the infamous blue dress and I am wondering if the pings indicate whether she may have left Fusion or remained in the general area. TIA!

So still need to ck dates. There were 2 outfits on the 20th. And, even though Nate describes it as a skirt...I wouldn't consider it out of the question to have been the black dress.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Gotta scoot for now, but, I'm working from memory on a few things here...so allow I may have things a little twisted (conforming to the shape of the inside of my brain :bang.

Regardless of my drivel about the dress specifically...this is terrific work! :clap: There are several possibilities to explore as Mom2Chloe already pointed out.

 

[beach]

:slap: me for not thinking of this earlier.

Obviously need to scrutinize this dress for potential to contain some wool. I would expect that to be UNlikely, but, worth considering closely.
There's work to do here, but, consider that disposal day was 6/20 IMHO based on several independent factors I can't list now. Tape w/ adhesive-side fibers from this dress would seem to suggest tape application 6/20. :shocked:

Also re: WTP blanket work to do. Perhaps it was retrieved simply to "hold" the body for the transfer into the plastic that afternoon.

Much to consider. :waitasec:

I agree....MUCH to consider. However, I am pretty sure the black dress pic is from the 13th, so that changes things a bit...



I would like to offer a couple of other hypotheses:

I do think mom2chloe hit the jackpot with that find in CA's depo. The WTP blanket stored in a drawer in the dresser in the spare room right next to 3 other drawers containing Cindy's winter sweaters/clothing. I am suggesting one of 2 scenarios:

1) that when KC retrieved the blanket, she reached in another drawer and grabbed something of CA's that was black wool. She tore the pieces of duct tape all at once and stuck them on this black wool item immediately prior to applying them to Caylee's face;

OR

2) KC grabbed the item containing black wool, soaked it in chloroform and applied it to Caylee's face to knock her out before taping her.


Either way, the black fibers would have transferred onto the duct tape, imo.


The fact that CA's winter clothing was stored in the same dresser as the WTP blanket is just too convenient to be considered a mere coincidence for me.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Big "Thank You" to Babycat & Beach for digging out the black dress pic and the GVS info! :blowkiss: & :blowkiss:

 

[beach]

FYI...per Nate, IIRC, Casey changed clothes 6/20 before the hot body contest. See Mom2Chloe's post on the 6/20 Ping thread, IIRC. So still need to ck dates.

Gotcha! So the 20th is still not out of the realm of possibilites.

I gotta run for now, too. Real work and all that carp.


I will be back later to continue sleuthing! Love that we have a new angle!

 

[beach]

I always find it beneficial when CA keeps talking! :dance:

--heavily snipped

Ain't THAT the truth!!! :rolling:

And this is exactly why an attorney advises the client to answer ONLY the question posed as briefly as possible and OFFER NOTHING ELSE! :banghead:
Legally, she is an attorney's worst nightmare the way she yaps and yaps!

Almost makes ya wanna blow her a kiss :blowkiss:

ALMOST.

 

[beach]

Still no time here, but if anyone can find a pic of what TonyL was wearing on the 20th, that might clear up the black dress pic date...

I doubt they BOTH changed clothes, iykwim.

 

[AZlawyer]

FYI...per Nate, IIRC, Casey changed clothes 6/20 before the hot body contest.

Borrowing from Mom2Chloe's post on the 6/20 Ping thread:

So still need to ck dates. There were 2 outfits on the 20th. And, even though Nate describes it as a skirt...I wouldn't consider it out of the question to have been the black dress.

BJB, are you suggesting that Casey would have worn the same outfit to Fusian 2 Fridays in a row? I don't care how homeless she was, there is no way this would happen. :snooty:

----------------------------------

I am leaning toward the idea of a black wool something being used to administer chloroform prior to the duct tape application. The fibers would have come off the wool item onto Caylee's face if the item was wet from chloroform, and then transferred to the tape when it was applied.

It doesn't make sense to line up duct tape pieces on something wool before using them. You would want to stick them on something smooth--plastic, metal, etc. And the fibers were not on Q104, correct? Just the pieces of duct tape found on the skull? So it seems to me that the fibers must have been from something that touched those three pieces of tape but did NOT touch Q104 (which might have been around Caylee's wrists).

Also, I don't see Casey going into the "Caylee's stuff" drawer of the spare room dresser to look for something to wear to a club. Or into Cindy's sweater drawer for that matter. And wasn't Cindy saying that the sweaters were kept in a different drawer from Caylee's stuff (including the blanket)?

Anyway. Stream of consciousness stuff here, but for a variety of reasons I think a black wool makeshift chloroform cloth makes most sense. Would there be anything left of something like that after 6 months in a swamp?

 

[mom2chloe]

--heavily snipped

Ain't THAT the truth!!! :rolling:

And this is exactly why an attorney advises the client to answer ONLY the question posed as briefly as possible and OFFER NOTHING ELSE! :banghead:
Legally, she is an attorney's worst nightmare the way she yaps and yaps!

Almost makes ya wanna blow her a kiss :blowkiss:

ALMOST.

I know! Can you believe that little gem of information she offered us? It was truly an OMG moment for me and I wanted to shout if from the rooftop in hopes you guys would hear me sooner. IMHO, CA knows where the black wool fibers originated from otherwise she would have never uttered a word about her winter sweaters and the fact that they were in close proximity to the WTP blanket.

I don't want to give her a kiss but I certainly feel like I owe her a big THANKS! :dance:

 

[AZlawyer]

I know! Can you believe that little gem of information she offered us? It was truly an OMG moment for me and I wanted to shout if from the rooftop in hopes you guys would hear me sooner. IMHO, CA knows where the black wool fibers originated from otherwise she would have never uttered a word about her winter sweaters and the fact that they were in close proximity to the WTP blanket.

I don't want to give her a kiss but I certainly feel like I owe her a big THANKS! :dance:

And to follow up on my post above, the fact that Cindy mentioned the sweaters is one reason I do NOT think they are the source of the fibers. Every time she goes out of her way to say something she was NOT ASKED, I picture herself mentally checking it off on a checklist: "OK, good. I managed to work in the sweater thing. Now they will never figure out that I found Casey's black wool _______ in the yard that day next to her Tiffany ring and threw it out cause it smelled funny."

Wild speculation only, obviously.

 

[mom2chloe]

GREAT WORK, mom2chloe!! :bowdown: :clap: :clap: :clap:


Do we have any idea if LE took any of these sweaters (or anything else that might have been stored nearby) in for testing? I know they took A LOT of Casey's clothing, shoes, etc...

I do not remember specifically if they took any sweaters, let alone any of CA's clothing but would be happy to look at the list to see what items they may have removed that would fit the description. Anyone able to point me towards a list of what LE took?

 

[beach]

BJB, are you suggesting that Casey would have worn the same outfit to Fusian 2 Fridays in a row? I don't care how homeless she was, there is no way this would happen. :snooty:

----------------------------------

I am leaning toward the idea of a black wool something being used to administer chloroform prior to the duct tape application. The fibers would have come off the wool item onto Caylee's face if the item was wet from chloroform, and then transferred to the tape when it was applied.

It doesn't make sense to line up duct tape pieces on something wool before using them. You would want to stick them on something smooth--plastic, metal, etc. And the fibers were not on Q104, correct? Just the pieces of duct tape found on the skull? So it seems to me that the fibers must have been from something that touched those three pieces of tape but did NOT touch Q104 (which might have been around Caylee's wrists).

Also, I don't see Casey going into the "Caylee's stuff" drawer of the spare room dresser to look for something to wear to a club. Or into Cindy's sweater drawer for that matter. And wasn't Cindy saying that the sweaters were kept in a different drawer from Caylee's stuff (including the blanket)?

Anyway. Stream of consciousness stuff here, but for a variety of reasons I think a black wool makeshift chloroform cloth makes most sense. Would there be anything left of something like that after 6 months in a swamp?

BBM

AZ, I totally agree with your entire post.

However, I am very aware that I have tunnel vision when it comes to the chloroform and the black wool. I have always felt that was the most likely scenario so I try hard to keep my mind open that I could be on the wrong track. Truth be told, I am really stuck on it. And the reasons you posted (e.g., no black wool fibers on Q104 & it just doesn't make good, common sense to go out of your way to line the tape up on a black wool item...) only serve to confirm my suspicions.


I was wondering the exact same in re. the 2nd bolded portion. Where is this item and would any evidence survive the conditions?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I do not remember specifically if they took any sweaters, let alone any of CA's clothing but would be happy to look at the list to see what items they may have removed that would fit the description. Anyone able to point me towards a list of what LE took?

There is a large amount of fibre evidence coming our way....during the search of the Anthony home after the discovery of little Caylee's body they took a number of items including 4 vacuum cleaners...

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/18262363/detail.html

Very much looking forward to the fibre comparisons that are no doubt still to come!

 

[SideKick]

I do not remember specifically if they took any sweaters, let alone any of CA's clothing but would be happy to look at the list to see what items they may have removed that would fit the description. Anyone able to point me towards a list of what LE took?

Hi Guys,

Regarding the dresses on Fusion nights, here is a link which on the sidebar states the blue dress June 20th at Fusion.

http://www.mahalo.com/casey-anthony-club-photos

Aside; has anyone thought of a black wool throw? CA had alot of black and white accents in her home, was there a black throw on a sofa or bed?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Here's Tony and Casey together on the blue dress night..... I'm thinking that the black dress photo was earlier as he is wearing a shirt that night....although it is possible that he wore the t'shirt while 'on duty' but wore the shirt over the t-shirt at times during the same night.

 

[BondJamesBond]

BJB, are you suggesting that Casey would have worn the same outfit to Fusian 2 Fridays in a row? I don't care how homeless she was, there is no way this would happen. :snooty:

*snip1*

Hey, AZ. No. I was just pointing out, per Nate's statement that Casey changed outfits on 6/20. So...pics of Casey in the blue dress on 6/20 doesn't exclude her being in the black dress beforehand.

IOW....if I understood, Beach's initial post, she was just thinking that since the pic had to be taken on either 6/13 or 6/20 as the two dates offered, that, having a pic of the blue dress on 6/20...by deduction...indicated that the black dress had to be 6/13. I was suggesting per above that wasn't necessarily the case because of a known outfit change on 6/20.

Also, I don't see Casey going into the "Caylee's stuff" drawer of the spare room dresser to look for something to wear to a club. Or into Cindy's sweater drawer for that matter. And wasn't Cindy saying that the sweaters were kept in a different drawer from Caylee's stuff (including the blanket)?

*snip 2*

Kinda leavin' the door open for lotsa possibilities here, IMHO. IOW...for example....Casey could've just been going through drawers looking for something in particular, only having to open the drawer & stick her hand in to find something would be enough to get fibers xfered to her hands. Just the blanket being in the same dresser suggests that the blanket could've been directly contaminated w/ wool fibers that were then subsequently & indirectly transferred to Caylee's face and/or the tape IYKWIM. Do we know if there were 10 wool fibers or 1,000?

Would there be anything left of something like that after 6 months in a swamp?

*snip c*

There is a resource I linked on a few of the threads related to specifically to the decomposition different fibers and dating PMI. It was a research/thesis paper done by a grad student @ LSU full of information about fiber decomposition.

ETA: Here you go:

As promised...

A thesis done for Masters @ LSU by Ms. Kellie Marie Gordon, May 2003. :thumb:

"A COMPARATIVE ANALYSIS OF THE DETERIORATION RATES OF TEXTILES AND THEIR ROLE IN DETERMINING POSTMORTEM INTERVAL"

Absolutely fascinating. Haven't made it all the way through yet...

http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-0407103-131120/unrestricted/Gordon_thesis.pdf

 

[beach]

I do not remember specifically if they took any sweaters, let alone any of CA's clothing but would be happy to look at the list to see what items they may have removed that would fit the description. Anyone able to point me towards a list of what LE took?

I wish I knew. I know that there were some forensic results of Casey's items that were taken in that huge 1405 pg. doc released in Oct. '09. (I think those items were seized during the Dec. 11 search when Mallory was at the A's home. I don't recall items of CA's clothing being confiscated.)

Another friend (poster) kindly sent me a link a while back to another doc that she thought contained more fiber forensics, but had been redacted. It was also a very large doc and I read it, but couldn't find anything remotely related to fiber results. I will post the link later tonight and anyone else can feel free to sleuth behind me.


Okay, I am truly, really outta here until 5pm my time.