FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021 #2

[IQuestion]

Morabito was not the structural engineer for the building. Those original engineers, who designed the structure of the building, are now deceased. Morabito prepared the 40 year inspection report ahead of time in 2018, and later designed a repair project for the building. From what I can see, his report was fairly thorough. Morabito also noted failed earlier repairs by others using epoxy injection. This building had not been appropriately maintained for years. Morabito identified a critical design defect, the failure to waterproof the pool deck, which was also the roof of the parking garage. Morabito gave the board a competent report. The report is available on the town of Surfside’s website, linked earlier by other posters. The question is whether he could have successfully involved the town of Surfside. The answer seems to be no, as their inspector indicated no alarm at all. Undoubtedly, Morabito will be sued, but IMO he is the least culpable party here.

From what I have read, the condominium board balked at paying for the repairs he recommended 3 years ago, and only recently came to terms with paying for them. This situation has been described in earlier WS posts. Right until just before the end, the condominium board avoided doing what they needed to…. Although they began some of the repairs, they began at the roof first.

In addition to neglect and design defects, the problem of salt water infiltration on the garage floor and the pile driving operations for the new building next door also have potential impacts.

Mornin' WARWICK I'm going to hazard a guess you have read a lot of structural reports over the years. Have you ever read a report where the structural engineer gets right to the point and says, "In the interest of safety, it is imperative the occupants be evacuated and then we can tear into investigating the extent of damage." I know, not a fair question given the outcome. I can't see a Fire Dept writing a report stating you might want to consider getting batteries for those smoke detectors in a timely manner. Geez the word "exponentially" can be interpreted differently for someone in the financial field vs someone in the construction field. As a result, what changes do you see coming from this tragedy? (What changes will not be made?)

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I think another story has been published about this young woman, but this was posted this am so reposting

Residents rescued after falling in Florida collapse | 11alive.com

When 16-year-old rising volleyball star Deven Gonzalez was pulled from the rubble of her Miami condo building, her initial reaction amid the shock was to tell firefighters that she had to compete in a major tournament in a few days.

The teen's world revolved around volleyball. She played beach volleyball, on her high school team and with a competitive travel club team. From her hospital bed where she's undergone multiple surgeries for a broken femur, she apologized profusely to her coach for missing their final practice.


"I said, 'Let's focus on you right now and not volleyball,'" said club coach Amy Morgan, who described Gonzalez as extremely determined, passionate and unrelenting in pursuing her goals.

Gonzalez lived with her parents on the ninth floor of Champlain Towers South. She and her mother, Angela Gonzalez, fell several stories before being rescued on the fifth floor, she told her coach. Her mother was among the survivors pulled from the rubble and is still hospitalized with serious injuries, Morgan told The Associated Press.

MUCH MORE at link

 

[Arkay]

@fguzmanon7

Surfside update: 32 now confirmed dead. 113 remain unaccounted for, though
@MayorDaniella
cautions that detectives have only confirmed about 70 of them as having been in the building at the time.

Of course it would be wonderful news to know that many of the condos were unoccupied at the time. I'm wondering about the people who had condos but were elsewhere during the collapse, or the condos that were owned by corporations who perhaps used this as a pied-à-terre for visiting executives. Have they not checked in with authorities that condos X, Y and Z were unoccupied at the time? It would be so helpful.

As to a condo board refusing to close a pool even though it seemed structurally unsound---I can absolutely see that happening. No one really seemed to think that the building was in imminent danger of collapse. It was frankly unimaginable. In South Florida a pool is a must, along with the need for more parking spaces. These are the day-to-day issues that people expect to be functioning when they buy a pricey beachfront condo. I know the beach is steps away, but people expect to use the pool as well.

Obviously in hindsight the entire notion was topsy-turvy, but they seemed like urgent matters and quality of life issues at the time. IMO the blame goes to those who saw the Morabito report and did not expeditiously follow through.

 

[sds71]

Doral’s vice mayor announced Tuesday that he wants a review of the work by the former city’s top building official after he was linked to the Surfside building collapse.

Rosendo “Ross” Prieto, 54, is the former top building official for the town of Surfside who didn’t alert Champlain Towers South Condominium Association of the dangers in the building. He allegedly failed to do so even after a 2018 engineer’s report that was full of red flags.

Prieto left Surfside last year and had been working for Doral since May as the interim building official. The Champlain Towers South partially collapsed on June 24. Engineers demolished the ruins on Sunday, as rescue teams continue to find residents’ bodies.
Doral vice mayor asks for review of Prieto’s work over link to Surfside tragedy (local10.com)

 

[Hope32]

Of course it would be wonderful news to know that many of the condos were unoccupied at the time. I'm wondering about the people who had condos but were elsewhere during the collapse, or the condos that were owned by corporations who perhaps used this as a pied-à-terre for visiting executives. Have they not checked in with authorities that condos X, Y and Z were unoccupied at the time? It would be so helpful.

... snipped....[/QUOTE

I think they have been working with everyone that owns property at the condo. They have multiple forms on the Miami Hearld site for people that want to report missing and those that need to report they are safe.

Also the New York Times has a model (Floor by Floor, the Missing People and Lost Lives Near Miami) that shows what condos that residents were out of town. There are a few families that had multiple condos in the building and they aren't sure what one they were in.
I am also guessing that part of the problem is that they were also possibly Air B&B's or family using the place. Or people that were not in the building and could have been out on the town or who knows. To me it seems that they are finally starting to filter through all the information and getting more concrete answers on who is truly missing.

Not trying to sound snippy. sorry if it seems that way.

 

[IQuestion]

Did I see what I saw on CNN...a "deep dive" (inspection) ordered on CTN??? I think it was Mayor B who said something about "similar materials/similar time of build"....etc. Off to research what suddenly changed. Was something noticed while drilling for demolition that preceded this A.M. announcement & that housing expenses will be paid for those who choose to leave or did I see an old clip?

 

[drama_farmer]

On Sept 11, 2001, imo, emergency services set up their command post on or near the ground floor of one of the Twin Towers. They had never seen a skyscraper (never mind two) crumple to the ground within hours, so, IMO, its understandable that they did not believe they were placing themselves and their colleagues in danger.

In the same way, the board/residents/town officials of Surfside, imo, were not acting with malice or indifference when they failed to realize that something that had never happened before would happen to them.

 

[fred&edna]

Did I see what I saw on CNN...a "deep dive" (inspection) ordered on CTN??? I think it was Mayor B who said something about "similar materials/similar time of build"....etc. Off to research what suddenly changed. Was something noticed while drilling for demolition that preceded this A.M. announcement & that housing expenses will be paid for those who choose to leave or did I see an old clip?

This is dated 7/6/21:

"Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett said officials are working with the condominium association of the "sister" building and advised it to do a "full structural review."

"We are doing a deep dive with respect to the sister building," Burkett said. "Given we do not know why the first building fell down, we have significant concerns about that building and the residents here.""

Officials have "significant concerns" about collapsed condo's "sister building"

 

[IQuestion]

On Sept 11, 2001, imo, emergency services set up their command post on or near the ground floor of one of the Twin Towers. They had never seen a skyscraper (never mind two) crumple to the ground within hours, so, IMO, its understandable that they did not believe they were placing themselves and their colleagues in danger.

In the same way, the board/residents/town officials of Surfside, imo, were not acting with malice or indifference when they failed to realize that something that had never happened before would happen to them.

Yes, agreed on Twin Towers. But, to me, a comparison can not be made since "the powers that be" did not have 3 year advance notice of structural problems speeding down the track of mass denial. With that said many people in the Twin Towers chose to flee the building even though automated alarms announced for occupants to stay in place. Thankfully many chose ignore the announcements and ran from the buildings.

 

[IQuestion]

This is dated 7/6/21:

"Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett said officials are working with the condominium association of the "sister" building and advised it to do a "full structural review."

"We are doing a deep dive with respect to the sister building," Burkett said. "Given we do not know why the first building fell down, we have significant concerns about that building and the residents here.""

Officials have "significant concerns" about collapsed condo's "sister building"

FRED&EDNA...WOW!

 

[fred&edna]

You can compare the previous 7/6/21 report with this dated 6/29/21:

Inspectors performed a quick-hit examination of the north building and Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett said nothing was found that indicates the tower is in danger of collapse.

That didn't reassure everyone.


Resident of Champlain Towers' other building estimates about 25% of tenants left after collapse

 

[amymarie]

This article talks about some of the maintenance that had already been done by the North Tower, including re-doing the pool deck and removing the decorative tiles from the balconies.

Two Miami-Area Condo Buildings Were Almost Twins; One Collapsed

“Naum Lusky, president of the North building’s condo board for the past 20 years, said it never levied more than $3 million in repair assessments at a time for the 113-unit building and made various repairs gradually over the years. That included fixing the pool deck”

“A few years ago, North building residents agreed to remove decorative tiles from their balconies. The tiles caused concern because they added weight and their grout allowed water to seep through and weaken the structure of the balconies, residents said.”

 

[Hope32]

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article252362358.html
Mods delete if needed, but a list of those that have been recovered:
- Maricoy Obias-Bonnefoy 69 Unit 1001
-Claudio Bonnefoy Bachelet, 85 Unit 1001
-Christina Beatriz Elvira Oliwkowicz 74 (7th floor by elevators)
-Leon Oliwkowicz 80 (7th floor by elevators)
-Ana Ortiz 46 (7th floor) [Nancy Levin, Jay Kleinman missing]
- Luis Andres Bermudez (7th floor)
-Frankie Kleinman 55 (7th floor)
-Gonzalo Torre 81 (9th floor end unit)
- Ingrid Ainsworth 66 (Not known)
-Tzvi Ainsworth 68 (Not Known
-Michael David Altman 50 Unit 1101
-Graciela Cattarossi 48 Unit 501 (Gino, Garciela (mother), and Andrea missing)
-Stella Cattarossi 7 Unit 501
-Magaly Elena Delgado 80 (9th floor)
-Bonnie Epstein 56 (9th Floor North End Unit)
-David Epstein 58 (9th Floor North End Unit)
-Stacie Fang 54 (10th Floor)
-Andreas Giannitsopoulos 21 Unit 801
- Manuel LaFont 54 Unit 801
- Emma Guara 4
-Lucia Guara 10
-Marcus Joseph Guara 52 (8th Floor)
- Anaely Rodriguez 42 (8th floor)(mother of Guara's)
-Antonio Lozano 83 (9th floor)
-Gladys Lozano 79 (9th Floor)
-HIlda Noriega 92 (6th floor)

 

[GatorFL]

You can compare the previous 7/6/21 report with this dated 6/29/21:

Inspectors performed a quick-hit examination of the north building and Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett said nothing was found that indicates the tower is in danger of collapse.

That didn't reassure everyone.


Resident of Champlain Towers' other building estimates about 25% of tenants left after collapse

Can't blame them. I'd be out as well.

 

[Arkay]

Yes, agreed on Twin Towers. But, to me, a comparison can not be made since "the powers that be" did not have 3 year advance notice of structural problems speeding down the track of mass denial. With that said many people in the Twin Towers chose to flee the building even though automated alarms announced for occupants to stay in place. Thankfully many chose ignore the announcements and ran from the buildings.

This is very true. I knew two people in the second tower there who heard the announcements to stay, because people and debris were falling from the first tower, and yet they obeyed the announcements, climbed back up and died. I know this because one called her mother and the other called his wife and told them they were told they’re safer to stay.

Even Giuliani and our NYC Office of Emergency Management was housed in one of the smaller buildings in the WTC complex. This was literally unpredictable, even with warnings that terrorists planned an attack on America.

The people I know who survived 9/11 were those who had been there for the earlier terrorist attack on the WTC , which killed six people. Their experience helped them to decide to get down the stairs as quickly as possible.

My prayer now is that lessons are learned and every single building across the country is throughly examined for structural integrity. My co-op is 23 floors and near, but not on, the beach. I’m much more uneasy now, even though we have had inspections and work done on our buildings.

 

[Hope32]

"The numbers of people accounted for, which now stands at 191, and people unaccounted for have fluctuated as detectives work to audit a list of those reported missing since the collapse.

Levine Cava said reaching some family members who originally called to report someone missing has become a challenge, making "it very difficult to determine whether an individual was in fact in the building."

Death toll up to 32 in Miami Beach-area condo building collapse

 

[ilovewings]

Of course it would be wonderful news to know that many of the condos were unoccupied at the time. I'm wondering about the people who had condos but were elsewhere during the collapse, or the condos that were owned by corporations who perhaps used this as a pied-à-terre for visiting executives. Have they not checked in with authorities that condos X, Y and Z were unoccupied at the time? It would be so helpful.

As to a condo board refusing to close a pool even though it seemed structurally unsound---I can absolutely see that happening. No one really seemed to think that the building was in imminent danger of collapse. It was frankly unimaginable. In South Florida a pool is a must, along with the need for more parking spaces. These are the day-to-day issues that people expect to be functioning when they buy a pricey beachfront condo. I know the beach is steps away, but people expect to use the pool as well.

Obviously in hindsight the entire notion was topsy-turvy, but they seemed like urgent matters and quality of life issues at the time. IMO the blame goes to those who saw the Morabito report and did not expeditiously follow through.

Well stated: I am sure if these people were told there was imminent danger they would have taken appropriate action. They were totally unaware they were living in a time-bomb of a high rise. It makes me so sad.

 

[fred&edna]

Can't blame them. I'd be out as well.

Same here! ('Sure hope it didn't come across as if I was blaming anyone with my link quotes! - not my intention)

 

[sds71]

The service for Hilda Noriega, the mother of North Bay Village Police Chief Carlos Noriega, was held at St. Patrick Catholic Church, a parish in Miami Beach. She was 92…

The service for Anaely Rodriguez, 42, her husband Marcus Guara, 52, and their daughters 11-year-old Lucia and 4-year-old Emma was being held at St. Joseph Catholic Church, a parish in Surfside.

Rescuers recovered Guara’s body on June 26. That day the Archdiocese of Maimi received a message from Pope Francis offering prayers “that Almighty God will grant eternal peace to those who have died, comfort to those who mourn their loss, and strength to all those affected.”
Rescuers recovered the bodies of Rodriguez, Lucia, and Emma on June 30.

The services for Tzvi Ainsworth, 68, and Itty Ainsworth, 66, former residents of Sydney, Australia, were set to be held at Lubavitch World Headquarters in Brooklyn. Interment will be at Old Montefiore Cemetery in Queens.

The Ainsworths’ granddaughter was born on the day of the building collapse. Crews recovered their bodies on Monday...


Funerals for victims of Surfside building collapse begin in Miami Beach

 

[Warwick1991]

Mornin' WARWICK I'm going to hazard a guess you have read a lot of structural reports over the years. Have you ever read a report where the structural engineer gets right to the point and says, "In the interest of safety, it is imperative the occupants be evacuated and then we can tear into investigating the extent of damage." I know, not a fair question given the outcome. I can't see a Fire Dept writing a report stating you might want to consider getting batteries for those smoke detectors in a timely manner. Geez the word "exponentially" can be interpreted differently for someone in the financial field vs someone in the construction field. As a result, what changes do you see coming from this tragedy? (What changes will not be made?)

I have seen reports from both architects and engineers that recommended evacuation, from a variety of causes, including serious fire code deficiencies, mold, asbestos and water intrusion. However, before a design professional recommends such a radical and costly measure, the investigation is quite thorough. In order to find out whether a concrete structure will fail, sampling the materials needs to be done, unless structurally significant cracks are visible. What we don’t know is whether Morabito recommended that the condominium board do testing. Such testing would not likely be included in a contract for a Miami-Dade 40 year inspection report. If he recommended testing, the board should have followed through. Although the concrete looked like it needed repairs in 2018, it might not have been apparent that the building would collapse. There’s still a lot we don’t know yet.

I hope there will be changes. Miami-Dade can mandate more frequent inspections, and its inspectors should be willing and able to condemn buildings that are neglected by condominium associations. Building inspectors are a separate occupation in Florida, and most are not architects or engineers. This is a major problem in Florida - most inspectors come from building trades and may not understand structural issues, among other things. The occupation of building inspector in Florida needs to be revisited, with architects and engineers - licensed design professionals - serving in these positions.

However, some mechanism should exist that forces condominium associations to either repair buildings or demolish them. That will be the biggest challenge, and I’m not sure it will happen. Insurance will also become an even bigger problem in Florida.