FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021

[margarita25]

What floor did the boy who survived live on? Tia.

 

[GatorFL]

I agree that it is not the smartest thing to be building high density accommodation on oceanfront properties. And so much of it. It is far different from building little beach shacks in those locations.

IMO we need to have more respect for the land and its capabilities - of supporting great weight, of erosion, of tidal effects.

Build the highrises further back from the beaches, they will still be able to see the ocean. And allow smaller, lighter, easier-on-the-land construction closer to the shoreline.

I don't think high rises are the problem. They have to be engineered and constructed properly, and also demolished when they surpass their life expectancy. Routine inspections and timely repairs are part of that equation as well.

It sounds like there were multiple failures in engineering, construction and maintenance in this building. JMO.

 

[GatorFL]

See post #538 about the addition.

I wouldn't call that an addition, it happened during the original construction and was accounted for in the engineering.

 

[MimosaMornings]

The damage was visible to the naked eye in the parking garage?

So people that recently purchased a unit would have seen it prior to closing?

 

[margarita25]

See post #538 about the addition.

SURFSIDE, Fla.—The developers of the collapsed Surfside condominium tower worked around local building codes by adding a penthouse that wasn’t part of the original plan, a review of town building records shows.

Plans submitted by the developer of the Champlain Towers South initially called for 12 floors of residential units. The developer decided to add a penthouse, which increased the building’s height by 15 feet with an additional floor. That put the tower slightly above the town’s legal height ordinance at the time.

The property owners built the penthouse after the Surfside town commission granted a special exemption to local height limits, according to a 1981 article in the Miami Herald. That allowed for these rooftop apartments at Champlain Towers South and a little later at Champlain Towers North, which was built around the same time.

It isn’t clear if the addition of a penthouse put undue stress on the south tower, though any possible irregularity related to the building is receiving new attention from local authorities and engineers after its sudden collapse.

Miami-Area Condo That Collapsed Skirted Local Codes With Penthouse

Thank you! This must have been the “addition” that I heard the lady talking about - she said the building was “swaying” when the addition was made, jmo. I remember thinking at the time that maybe this was a factor.

—

From above:

“Plans submitted by the developer of the Champlain Towers South initially called for 12 floors of residential units. The developer decided to add a penthouse, which increased the building’s height by 15 feet with an additional floor. That put the tower slightly above the town’s legal height ordinance at the time.”

[...]

“It isn’t clear if the addition of a penthouse put undue stress on the south tower, though any possible irregularity related to the building is receiving new attention from local authorities and engineers after its sudden collapse.”

 

[GatorFL]

What floor did the boy survived live on? Tia.

IDK. His mom was found deceased though.

On the local news here they showed a fence erected around the property with posters of the missing affixed to it. Had a 9/11 vibe. I had flashbacks for sure. Very sad.

 

[Luna20]

Former maintenance manager reacts to Florida condo collapse

“A former maintenance manager for the Florida condo tower that collapsed last week said he had raised concerns about ocean water regularly inundating the parking garage — and that the flooding struck him as “just not normal.”

William Espinosa, who oversaw the maintenance staff of the Champlain Towers South Condo in Surfside, recalled having to often use pumps to get rid of potentially corrosive seawater seeping into the underground parking garage, news station WFOR reported.

“Any time that we had high tides away from the ordinary, any King Tide or anything like that, we would have a lot of saltwater come in through the bottom of the foundation,” Espinosa told the outlet.

“But it was so much water, all the time, that the pumps never could keep up with it.”

Espinosa, who worked there from 1995 to 2000, said he brought his concerns to the managers of the building, but they told him not to be concerned about the issue.

 

[SouthAussie]

I don't think high rises are the problem. They have to be engineered and constructed properly, and also demolished when they surpass their life expectancy. Routine inspections and timely repairs are part of that equation as well.

It sounds like there were multiple failures in engineering, construction and maintenance in this building. JMO.

I think it is a combination of all of those things. The failures you mention, as well as environmental factors. Not one or the other.

The environmental risks would be minimised - and probably the expensive maintenance would be less costly and more financially easily achieved - if we didn't build highrises on the shoreline. If instead we built them on bedrock or areas that are not subject to porous limestone underneath, organic fill, tidal effects, erosion ....

 

[GatorFL]

Thank you! This must have been what I heard the lady talking about - she said the building was swaying when the addition was made, jmo. I remember thinking at the time that maybe this was a factor.

—

From above:

“It isn’t clear if the addition of a penthouse put undue stress on the south tower, though any possible irregularity related to the building is receiving new attention from local authorities and engineers after its sudden collapse.”

Next paragraph mitigates this though:

"The tower’s rooftop apartments would have added significant weight but they were accounted for in the revised design, said Roberto Leon, a professor of construction engineering at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, who reviewed the building plans."

 

[GatorFL]

I think it is a combination of all of those things. The failures you mention, as well as environmental factors. Not one or the other.

The environmental risks would be minimised - and probably the expensive maintenance would be less costly and more financially easily achieved - if we didn't build highrises on the shoreline. If instead we built them on bedrock or areas that are not subject to porous limestone underneath, organic fill, tidal effects, erosion ....

I was in the facilities business for awhile. There isn't a building on the planet that does bot require periodic maintenance. Plenty of non-oceanfront high rises have expensive issues. Florida has high rises built on oceanfront property all up and down the Atlantic coast. This is an extremely rare issue.

 

[LadyL]

Man who lives in condo looks out, tells wife ‘My parents’ apartment isn’t there’

 

[juli99]

What floor did the boy who survived live on? Tia.

The below was posted by someone earlier. He was in Apt 1002, which I assume is the 10th floor? Amazing he survived. I think all of these apartments were on the north side of the building.


Where in the collapsed part of the building did the people who were found so far (alive or deceased) live?

#1002: A mother and 15-year old son pulled out of the rubble alive on the first day; the mother, who had her leg amputated, later died in a hospital
#903: An older couple found deceased
#801: A 54-year old man found deceased

Source: Colin Scroggins CNAW (reporter)

 

[branmuffin]

Missing grandparents’ landline calling from inside Champlain Towers condo, family says

That is awful. Poor people.

 

[margarita25]

The below was posted by someone earlier. He was in Apt 1002, which I assume is the 10th floor? Amazing he survived. I think all of these apartments were on the north side of the building.


Where in the collapsed part of the building did the people who were found so far (alive or deceased) live?

#1002: A mother and 15-year old son pulled out of the rubble alive on the first day; the mother, who had her leg amputated, later died in a hospital
#903: An older couple found deceased
#801: A 54-year old man found deceased

Source: Colin Scroggins CNAW (reporter)

Thank you. One reason I asked is because I was reminded of the person in the WTC on 9/11 who “surfed” down:

“Buzzelli, dubbed the "9/11 Surfer," had somehow landed safely on a pile of rubble that had been the World Trade Center after about a 15-story fall.”

'9/11 Surfer' tells survival tale 11 years later


MIRACLE MAN
I survived 9/11 by surfing 15 floors on slab of concrete
Miracle hidden for 11 years by myth, disbelief and survivor guilt is revealed for first time

(BBM above)

—
Eta: In the video I posted above about the Australian building which has cracks in it and people had to evacuate, losing all their $ in the residence, iirc the crack was first detected on the 10th floor.

What floor was the penthouse addition?

 

[juli99]

Thank you. One reason I asked is because I was reminded of the person in the WTC on 9/11 who “surfed” down:

“Buzzelli, dubbed the "9/11 Surfer," had somehow landed safely on a pile of rubble that had been the World Trade Center after about a 15-story fall.”

'9/11 Surfer' tells survival tale 11 years later


MIRACLE MAN
I survived 9/11 by surfing 15 floors on slab of concrete
Miracle hidden for 11 years by myth, disbelief and survivor guilt is revealed for first time

—
eta/ BBM above

—
Eta2: In the video I posted above about the Australian building which has cracks in it and people had to evacuate, losing all their $ in the residence, iirc the crack was first detected on the 10th floor.

What floor was the penthouse addition?

Wow, I've never heard that 9/11 story. The boy was found under his bed I believe, so somehow he and his bed ended up in the same place. His story will probably shed light, though I imagine he will have that same inability to talk about it.

The building was 12 floors, but I'm not sure if that included the penthouse.

 

[IQuestion]

Trying to bump post#321 from Warwick1991. It appears Warwick1991 had figured out this "fluid situation" pretty early on, zeroing in on the pool area and progressive failure!!
(WS is always the place to go when you want details Always great contributors. IMO.)

"The failure of a column can definitely bring down a building, although there are quite a few columns. It would depend on the rest of the structural system - whether there's any redundant capacity, the location of the failed column, and what kind of system is used to support the floors. The failure could also have been where the column meets the concrete slab above, if the slab reinforcing lost much of its strength - punching shear.

When I saw another building (not Champlain Towers South) with a pool and pool deck on top of the parking garage, I felt the potential for deterioration was great. In other buildings I've observed with the same design, I saw signs of deterioration. Unless designed and constructed with great care, water damage potential is great. I think Morabito's 2018 report may be the key to what happened. Clearly, the pool deck was a source of water intrusion into the garage below. The repairs would have been very costly and inconvenient, so the condominium board might have put it on the back burner. At the very least, they should have investigated further, with concrete samples taken from various locations. The engineer alerted his clients to risk, but the response was not necessarily in his hands.

I'll say again that we need to wait for NIST and other consultants to complete their investigation. We are long way from that now."

 

[margarita25]

Wow, I've never heard that 9/11 story. The boy was found under his bed I believe, so somehow he and his bed ended up in the same place. His story will probably shed light, though I imagine he will have that same inability to talk about it.

The building was 12 floors, but I'm not sure if that included the penthouse.

This reminds me of an on-site first responder speaking the other night; I think it may have been a FD Chief who was also at Ground Zero. He said when they found a mattress, they knew they were looking in the right place, near bedroom(s), because people would have been sleeping at that hour.

Also, when speaking about voids, he said you cut a slab, remove it, search, cut a slab, remove it, search, that this is referred to as “delayering”. Also, it’s called a “pancake collapse” because that’s exactly what it looks like, a stack of pancakes. He said a refrigerator could possibly hold up a section of slab and create a void. All JMO from Chris Cuomo’s podcast on-site posted upstream.

* Sorry for any rehash, I’m unable to keep up here due to work.

—

Now, again, when this officially becomes a recovery mission, there is a highly scientific, incredible report I’ve spent weeks studying during lockdown about the recovery at 9/11 Ground Zero. I don’t feel right bringing it up yet, as this is still a rescue mission, but as I mentioned I will when the time is right. There is a lot from that report that needs to be said, imo. While these are different circumstances and on a smaller scale, and a lot has been learned since then, there are still obviously some similarities.

 

[bears10]

Hmm. Idk, the impression I got was there was an addition, maybe I misinterpreted. I’ll have to look into this now. I deleted my post in case it is wrong, which it sounds like it may be. Thanks for pointing that out, @GatorFL.

this is prob what you’re thinking of
—
One last theory under consideration is the possibility that heavy construction next door in 2019 could have damaged the Champlain Towers building. An email released by the city on Sunday revealed that a member of the condo board had gone to the city for help at the time, expressing “concerns regarding the structure of our building.”

Town officials declined to intervene, suggesting that the residents hire someone to monitor any impacts.

Possible Failure Point Emerges in Miami-Area Building Collapse

 

[margarita25]

this is prob what you’re thinking of
—
One last theory under consideration is the possibility that heavy construction next door in 2019 could have damaged the Champlain Towers building. An email released by the city on Sunday revealed that a member of the condo board had gone to the city for help at the time, expressing “concerns regarding the structure of our building.”

Town officials declined to intervene, suggesting that the residents hire someone to monitor any impacts.

Possible Failure Point Emerges in Miami-Area Building Collapse

Hi @Bears. It could have been, thank you, .

ETA:

I’m listening to today’s Chris Cuomo broadcast. He’s actually talking about the construction next door right now. There was an “underground garage” built, “unusual for the area...” (he’s not saying this was the reason, just bringing up different things)

‎Cuomo Prime Time with Chris Cuomo on Apple Podcasts

 

[IQuestion]

Dhaaang Margarita25... you know how challenging it is for me to crop a photo and attach it to a post! I tried to do it 5 hours ago and got too frustrated, but now that you brought it up......This is a photo of what appears to be construction work on the garage next door to CST (Champlain South Tower). If you look closely, you can see lots of I-beams on a scaffold at the garage entrance and additional scaffolding on the side of the building, too. Just click on the picture to enlarge.
BTW my posting pal, I look forward to your comments next week. You are an incredible researcher on WS