FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021

[cujenn81]

FL - Champlain Towers South Building Collapse, Miami, 24 June 2021 Media Thread **NO DISCUSSION**

I started a media thread and have added most of the linked articles/videos shared in the first 12 pages of this thread. However, my brain tells me I must go sleep now or I'll never make it to work tomorrow. If anyone wants to help with the rest, please feel free. If not, I'll try to pick it back up tomorrow.

Until then... goodnight Websleuths!

 

[Eloise]

At this stage, five days post, any survivors would have to have access to water to have survived, right? At what point do you call the rescue mission and switch to recovery based on factors such as that?

 

[IQuestion]

Maybe someone familiar with real estate laws in Florida or involved in a recent purchase could provide input? I read a "condo association" does not have to disclose anything to potential buyers....because the buyer is not a member of the association until the sales transaction is completed? And, the seller only has disclose issues that affect the condo unit itself.... not the public/common areas? Does this apply in Florida?
PS... Good night @Cujenn81

 

[SouthAussie]

At this stage, five days post, any survivors would have to have access to water to have survived, right? At what point do you call the rescue mission and switch to recovery based on factors such as that?

There is an article here that speaks of survivors located under rubble.

It says that after 2 weeks the chances of survival are rare. That they monitor CO2 levels - if the levels are rising, someone in there is breathing. Once they stop rising (if they are rising), the breathing has ceased.

It also says that the UN usually calls off search and rescue after 5 days.

• A six-month-old girl has been rescued from a building four days after it collapsed in the Kenyan capital, Nairobi.
• In May 2013 a woman was pulled from the ruins of a factory building in Bangladesh, 17 days after it collapsed.
• After the Haiti earthquake in January 2010, one man survived for 12 days under the rubble of a shop
• December 2005 saw a 40-year-old woman saved from what had been her kitchen in Pakistani-administered Kashmir, more than two months after an earthquake hit the region.
• An IRC team rescued three boys who had been buried in the ruins of their school for five days after the earthquake in Pakistan in 2005.

The problem, as I see it, is that the building seemed to pancake - so there may be very few nooks and crannies that contain air and some space, where people might survive.

How long can survivors last under rubble?

 

[Herat]

A video of one of the apartments in the area of collapse. It gives you an idea of where the woman was who saw the pool deck collapse.

It's a very nice remodeled 2BR, 2 Bath condo with a sea view and a balcony.

It looks very much like places I have stayed in, in Mexico, Hawaii, HongKong, Thailand.

 

[Eloise]

Thanks for these links! Very informative.

There is an article here that speaks of survivors located under rubble.

It says that after 2 weeks the chances of survival are rare. That they monitor CO2 levels - if the levels are rising, someone in there is breathing. Once they stop rising (if they are rising), the breathing has ceased.

It also says that the UN usually calls off search and rescue after 5 days.

• A six-month-old girl has been rescued from a building four days after it collapsed in the Kenyan capital, Nairobi.
• In May 2013 a woman was pulled from the ruins of a factory building in Bangladesh, 17 days after it collapsed.
• After the Haiti earthquake in January 2010, one man survived for 12 days under the rubble of a shop
• December 2005 saw a 40-year-old woman saved from what had been her kitchen in Pakistani-administered Kashmir, more than two months after an earthquake hit the region.
• An IRC team rescued three boys who had been buried in the ruins of their school for five days after the earthquake in Pakistan in 2005.

The problem, as I see it, is that the building seemed to pancake - so there may be very few nooks and crannies that contain air and some space, where people might survive.

How long can survivors last under rubble?

In May 2013 a woman was pulled from the ruins of a factory building in Bangladesh, 17 days after it collapsed. - she had access to both biscuits and water

After the Haiti earthquake in January 2010, one man survived for 12 days under the rubble of a shop I searched for info about this guy and finally found a youtube video by AP where a doctor says that through translators she thinks he had access to water

I also read a few more stories from the Haiti earthquake - seems survivors tend to have some kind of access to water or something else to drink (makes sense, of course) such as having been in a kitchen or even bathroom when it happened

 

[sds71]

On Monday, several residents at Maison Grande Condominium, an 18-story building with 502 units, said they are worried about the safety of the 1971 building at 6039 Collins Ave., in Miami Beach. They have photographs showing corroded steel and concrete spalling.

Records show there have been five inspections that determined the building is an “unsafe structure.” The building envelope is among the list of concerns. There were also warnings that the two-story parking garage and pool deck “have reached the end of their useful life and require repair, replacement,” or “a combination thereof.”

On Nov. 19, 2020, a city official wrote, “Structure with evidence of spalling concrete. Need to submit a report signed and sealed by [an] engineer to evaluate the structure together with methods of repairs.” Near an entrance, there is a Dec. 28, 2020 red “unsafe structure” violation notice.

Building collapse horrifies residents of Miami Beach condominium with ‘unsafe structure’ warning

 

[nhmemorymaker]

There was nothing unusual about the lobby and pool area at Champlain Towers South condo, which looked clean and well maintained to a commercial pool contractor who visited the building last Tuesday, just 36 hours before half of the building unexpectedly collapsed. Then, he saw the basement-level garage.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252421658.html
“There was standing water all over the parking garage,” the contractor, who asked not to be named, told the Miami Herald. He noted cracking concrete and severely corroded rebar under the pool.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252421658.html
He also took photos, which he shared with the Herald.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252421658.html
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252421658.html#storylink=cpy
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252421658.html
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252421658.html

Most informative article.

 

[GatorFL]

Here is a letter to the owners of the condos from the Board. It has the estimates and proposed scope of work. Interesting read.

https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/miamiletter0628.pdf

 

[sds71]

Florida condo collapse victims: Photos of missing people on memorial wall near site

 

[GatorFL]

Florida condo collapse victims: Photos of missing people on memorial wall near site

Saw this on the local news last night. Reminded me of 9/11.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Here is a letter to the owners of the condos from the Board. It has the estimates and proposed scope of work. Interesting read.

https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/miamiletter0628.pdf

The complexities are truly mind-blowing. An earlier post expressed how a potential buyer does not have access to HOA information prior to purchase.

Can you imagine how "in the dark" one can be with such a monumental purchase?
I wonder if the recent purchaser of the penthouse knew anything about the 16M "project" coming up.

This building collapse is going to affect buying and selling in coastal high-rises FOREVER... . Lawyers lawyers lawyers, money, money, money, lawsuits

 

[SouthAussie]

But on occasion, the workers would pause, and bend down, and collect what amounted to small, fragile consolation prizes: the personal photos from the residents of the Champlain Towers South

The pictures, and a few other personal effects that somehow managed to survive the collapse, were at least something.

“There’s not a lot,” said Maggie Castro, a firefighter and paramedic ..... Ms. Castro said most everything inside the building was destroyed

“There have been some wallets. Some pieces of jewelry. Larger picture frames we have identified to go back to them,” she said.

The careful effort to preserve at least some of the belongings of the people who had lived in the tower is one of many ways that rescue officials are acknowledging that the daunting, and sometimes harrowing, technical challenges they face are only part of their job.

Rubble, Narrow Voids, Storms: The Dangerous Rescue Effort in Miami

 

[GatorFL]

The complexities are truly mind-blowing. An earlier post expressed how a potential buyer does not have access to HOA information prior to purchase.

Can you imagine how "in the dark" one can be with such a monumental purchase? I wonder if the recent purchaser of the penthouse knew anything about the 16M "project" coming up.

This building collapse is going to affect buying and selling forever. Lawyers lawyers lawyers.............

I don't know if that is an accurate statement. Here in my municipality a potential buyer has access to HOA documents and special assessments. Homeowners are also required to share the HOA rulebook with a potential buyer.

 

[Ann99]

Most informative article.

Yes, nhmemorymaker, this article is a must read. See photos.

Thanks for posting this SDS71

Here is the link again.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252421658.html

 

[scdiv]

Firefighter on scene said Florida condo collapse resembled ‘the Trade Center’

Florida condo collapse 'resembles the Trade Center': firefighter

 

[Hope32]

I don't know if that is an accurate statement. Here in my municipality a potential buyer has access to HOA documents and special assessments. Homeowners are also required to share the HOA rulebook with a potential buyer.

It may not be available to the buyer per say. I bought a condo in Indiana in 2019... My potential mortgage company held up some of the process because they were waiting on the completion of a document from the HOA about various items in regards to insurance (that's about the only thing I was told), but a survey about the property and who knows what else... I was also able to pull up the HOA code/HOA mandates etc... Mine was relatively cheap ($130,000) so I am going to guess unless they purchase with cash the mortgage companies will look into information and have some more information than publicly

 

[SouthAussie]

The problem, he said, was that the waterproofing was laid on a concrete slab that was flat, not sloped in a way that would allow water to run off, an issue he called a “major error” in the original design.

And apparently he also said ... "The problem needed to be addressed quickly, Morabito wrote."

‘Major error’ was flagged in 2018 inspection report of collapsed building near Miami Beach

 

[GatorFL]

It may not be available to the buyer per say. I bought a condo in Indiana in 2019... My potential mortgage company held up some of the process because they were waiting on the completion of a document from the HOA about various items in regards to insurance (that's about the only thing I was told), but a survey about the property and who knows what else... I was also able to pull up the HOA code/HOA mandates etc... Mine was relatively cheap ($130,000) so I am going to guess unless they purchase with cash the mortgage companies will look into information and have some more information than publicly

I think local laws govern this.

 

[GatorFL]

Do you have a link? Is it in a media thread here at Websleuths? Has WS created a media thread for years from now ?

FL - Champlain Towers South Building Collapse, Miami, 24 June 2021 Media Thread **NO DISCUSSION**