FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021

[dixiegirl1035]

Property insurance should be helpful.

?? Depends MOO on reason for catastrophe, if you are talking about individual policies for each unit?

Don't know. But I will follow this thread for a long time to LEARN though Websleuths, as we have so many smart folks here. It may be years, but we follow cases for years, so nothin' new for us following so long. MOO

 

[Hope32]

I believe all true with the possible exception of #5. If you look at the letter, it references this has been ongoing through multiple HOA boards.

Yes I believe they got the engineers to build a quote in 2018 to plan for a budget. This plan was approved and throughout the last couple years they have been bidding out for contractors for the repairs along with acquiring the loan to fund the project. Throw in last year's disaster of a year for delays as well.

The $16 million is with a 20% contingency amount that was suggested in 2018 to cover for inflation, increased material prices, and repairs that were not apparent and discovered during renovations. Over the last years the deteriorations increased so it seems that it will be closer to that number.

 

[GatorFL]

?? Depends MOO on reason for catastrophe, if you are talking about individual policies for each unit?

Don't know. But I will follow this thread for a long time to LEARN though Websleuths, as we have so many smart folks here. It may be years, but we follow cases for years, so nothin' new for us following so long. MOO

Condo owners have 2 polices. One the HOA buys for the building which covers the structure, common areas, boilers, elevators, roofs, pools etc. Condo owners also buy a policy for their units which covers the dwelling, contents, loss of use and personal liability. Of course, it has not come out yet what the policy limits are but I bet with such a catastrophic loss of life every insurer is paying policy limits.

 

[GatorFL]

Yes I believe they got the engineers to build a quote in 2018 to plan for a budget. This plan was approved and throughout the last couple years they have been bidding out for contractors for the repairs along with acquiring the loan to fund the project. Throw in last year's disaster of a year for delays as well.

The $16 million is with a 20% contingency amount that was suggested in 2018 to cover for inflation, increased material prices, and repairs that were not apparent and discovered during renovations. Over the last years the deteriorations increased so it seems that it will be closer to that number.

It would have been closer to that number.

I asked a couple real estate friends here locally about these kinds of assessments and in large buildings they are not uncommon. One guy told me his condo special assessment went from $15k to $50k per unit and by the time they completed the project (2.5 years) the bill was $75k per unit. This was in a 75-unit building.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

It would have been closer to that number.

I asked a couple real estate friends here locally about these kinds of assessments and in large buildings they are not uncommon. One guy told me his condo special assessment went from $15k to $50k per unit and by the time they completed the project (2.5 years) the bill was $75k per unit. This was in a 75-unit building.

I just do NOT understand this. Most HOA/POA where I live require 15 year studies out to plan for reserves. How did they not increase each year to the max allowed to increase such as it was PIDDLY monies.

Do they do such so that folks buy into them, as they only have to disclose the yearly payments (which include reserves?..but they aren't funding such during those 15 years?)

 

[GatorFL]

I just do NOT understand this. Most HOA/POA where I live require 15 year studies out to plan for reserves. How did they not increase each year to the max allowed to increase such as it was PIDDLY monies.

Do they do such so that folks buy into them, as they only have to disclose the yearly payments (which include reserves?..but they aren't funding such during those 15 years?)

Do you live in a single family home or a condo?

 

[Luna20]

It appears like many unit owners and new buyers had no idea about the assessments and extent of existing damage? Can this be true?

Why wouldn’t that have been determined in the purchasing stage? Appraisal, Inspection, etc? I’ve never owned a condo so I’m unsure of the purchase agreement protocol.

 

[Chelly]

Why wouldn’t that have been determined in the purchasing stage? Appraisal, Inspection, etc? I’ve never owned a condo so I’m unsure of the purchase agreement protocol.

I would think there would be full disclosure at purchase, but I've never owned a condo either.

 

[Luna20]

It would have been closer to that number.

I asked a couple real estate friends here locally about these kinds of assessments and in large buildings they are not uncommon. One guy told me his condo special assessment went from $15k to $50k per unit and by the time they completed the project (2.5 years) the bill was $75k per unit. This was in a 75-unit building.

I have no interest in buying any property under these guidelines. No wonder there are so many HOA nightmare stories.

 

[Chelly]

Do you live in a single family home or a condo?

Who are you asking? If me....always owned single family, never owned a condo, thus I am condo-illiterate and it shows. However, I have acquaintances that own condos. They grumble, but stay put.

 

[IQuestion]

I just do NOT understand this. Most HOA/POA where I live require 15 year studies out to plan for reserves. How did they not increase each year to the max allowed to increase such as it was PIDDLY monies.

Do they do such so that folks buy into them, as they only have to disclose the yearly payments (which include reserves?..but they aren't funding such during those 15 years?)

DIXIE1035.... I'm sure someone's attorney has already requested 1120-H's for the last 10 years. It would be interesting to compare their association fees and expenditures to other properties of similar age.
I think this affects so many because it appears this was preventable at least in the early stages. The loss of life from events in nature: earth quakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, tornadoes, hurricanes, monsoons, mudslides, flooding.... I can understand. But a luxury high rise, in palm paradise, just crumbles to the ground in the middle of the night and so many people still missing...unfathomable.

 

[Dontknow?]

LoisWINKNews

@LoisWINKNews
36s

DEATH TOLL rises in #Surfside building collapse as crews find another body today. 12 people have died, 149 people are unaccounted for.

 

[margarita25]

Next paragraph mitigates this though:

"The tower’s rooftop apartments would have added significant weight but they were accounted for in the revised design, said Roberto Leon, a professor of construction engineering at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, who reviewed the building plans."

Hm. “Revised design” (noting)

Do we have any blueprints at all, before and after the additions? Tia.

(I’ll check the media thread. I saw @cujenn81 was posting in there last night. If cuteness is posting in the media thread, I expect good things. - Example for reference (o/t)
- Eta: @cujenn81, your name just came up as “cuteness” in autocorrect hehe)

 

[sds71]

@NorahODonnell

Allyn Kilsheimer, the structural engineer hired by the town of Surfside, said a lobby attendant told him he heard three loud "booms" before the tower collapsed. "I think I understand the second one, I think I understand the third one. I don't understand the first one."

Video:
https://twitter.com/CBSEveningNews/status/1410005616911867905?s=20

 

[Lamima]

Just bought a vacay property in FL (Kissimmee area). And we were looking at condos but could not get a mortgage with our lender and discovered FL has weird rules about mortgaging a condo. Cant be mostly short term rentals, cant have pending lawsuits with HOA, can't have any 1 entity owning a certain big %, can't have certain % in arrears on hoa dues...etc. So, thankfully, we went with a townhome. We were told what any assessments were prior to closing. Was not always easy to get info, while we were house hunting and making offers. They didn't want to give that out. There was also some other fee, one time fee, to HOA. Some reaorts were big and some had none. Most condos, also, have 2 hoa fees. Main one for amenities and grounds and then condo building one for roof and such. Ours being a townhome was a bit more due to having to maintain landscaping around our unit. And condos tend to include more utilities than the townhomes do.

Anyway...we would know all the assessments and fees before closing. I have seen some listings for condos that say sellers would pay the assement. That would not be in current market but would have been a year ago.

So glad we went with a townhome now. We even looked at Ckearwater and Palm Coast beach condos. I loved high rises. No more.

 

[Luna20]

Couple dead in Florida condo collapse found in bed together: son

 

[margarita25]

Couple dead in Florida condo collapse found in bed together: son

Some more links that come up under “Miami victims”, not exhaustive of course - I’m sure many of these have already been posted, consolidating since the opportunity arises, sorry I can’t keep up in the discussion due to work but hope to catch up this weekend

June 29

11th victim recovered from rubble of Miami tower collapse - mayor

Surfside condo collapse: What we know about the victims and 150 missing people

"They always wanted to go together — and they did": Couple married for 59 years died in Surfside condo collapse - CBS News

What we know about the victims of the Surfside building collapse

This is what we know about the dead and unaccounted for in the Miami condo collapse - CNN

‘We Are Waiting for You’: An Agonizing Vigil for Surfside Families

Updates: Death Toll Grows to Five; 156 Victims Unaccounted For

Miami condo collapse: Death toll grows to 12; Biden visits Thursday

How Authorities Are Identifying The Victims Of The Florida Condo Collapse

Miami-Area Collapsed Condo Crews Keep Up Search for Survivors on Day 6

Hope for Survivors Dwindles at Collapsed Condo Near Miami Beach as Rescuers Find More Bodies

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252434038.html

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252414358.html

Live Updates: Condo President Warned Residents of Worsening Damage in April

THE LATEST: Death toll rises to 12 as rescuers battle obstacles during their search in Surfside

How to help Surfside Building Collapse Victims - CNN

Surfside: 11 building collapse victims identified


June 28

Beachside vigil held for victims and families of Surfside building collapse

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/28/florida-condo-building-collapse-live-updates/

Miami condo collapse victim names: List of people who died in Surfside

Who are they? Stories of the victims of Surfside collapse

Authorities identify 3 additional victims of Surfside building collapse; death toll now at 11

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252426133.html

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article252434743.html

Building collapse horrifies residents of Miami Beach condominium with ‘unsafe structure’ warning

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252414378.html

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story...-identified-latest-updates-monday/5368390001/

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local...w-to-help-survivors-victims-families/2482792/

https://people.com/human-interest/police-identify-4-more-of-9-victims-of-miami-condo-collapse/

https://miami.cbslocal.com/2021/06/...ered-victims-from-surfside-building-collapse/


June 27

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-u...-victims-identified-in-florida-condo-collapse

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/27/fri...ad-and-missing-in-florida-condo-collapse.html

Florida building collapse: What we know about those missing, killed

June 26

https://apnews.com/article/miami-im...rus-pandemic-ded76155a33b0b0e092ef67b4455b333

 

[sorrell skye]

IMO, developers have been making bank on the Florida coast over these past 40 years.

All the while, IMO, condo owners have been footing the bill for repairs for shoddy construction.

I lived in Tampa way back in the late 70's. I remember the beautiful beaches and coastlines. It was a paradise.

When I went back to visit years later, I didn't didn't recognize the landscape.

Paradise Lost, IMO.

I can only imagine what happened to the East Coast of Florida.

Did over-development and lack of oversight play a role in this horrific tragedy?

 

[SuziQ]

Has anyone else searching for videos on YouTube seen all the high rise condo problems in Australia????

 

[Dontknow?]

I hope my google link comes out right. I just googled Surfside and the condo. It has water on two sides almost. Behind it, even if there's buildings, there's water close by too. From the east & west side of it, it's floating practically in water on a sand bridge with buildup. Scary. I really want to know if water was also seeping in from the ocean under the building along with the pool problem.

Google Maps