FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #2 *Arrest*

[MelmothTheLost]

Sounds like his mom was lacking a support system herself:

There are some interesting details in that article about Lynda, especially that towards the end of her life she had more or less given up trying to restrain Cruz, and that she was in her 60s and in poor health. If she was 68 when she died and Nikolas was 19, she was in her late 40s when Nikolas was adopted.

I'm pretty certain that here in the UK she and her husband would not have been approved to adopt simply due to their age, though there is an exception made for an older couple adopting their own grandchildren. Lynda was always going to be in her 60s during the boys' adolescence, a period when the parents needed to be in good health and able to continue to parent effectively. Since Roger died when Nikolas was 5 or 6, that meant a woman in her 60s trying to bring up two teenagers, at least one of them disturbed, single handed.

I dunno, it just seems to me that this adoption was fundamentally flawed from the start. It makes me wonder whether someone involved with the adoption thought about the risks and went ahead with it anyway.

 

[dianaelaine59]

I don't know if anyone has found out anything about the adoption of the two, but I read one article that said the older one was adopted around age 2 and the brother (half brother actually) was younger and they were adopted at the same time. I wonder if they came from one of those orphanages overseas or from an original birth parent with psychosis.

-------------------------

"If we want to change our society for the better, we must focus on the crucial period between conception and the age of two."

https://www.theguardian.com/social-care-network/2012/sep/12/secure-early-bonding-essential-babies




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[MaryG12]

The system worked here

Arlington student's courage, Dutchess deputy 'potentially saved many lives'

Published 1:57 p.m. ET Feb. 17, 2018
Updated 5:53 p.m. ET Feb. 17, 2018

https://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com...eputy-potentially-saved-many-lives/348007002/

This Sawyer boy sounds extremely dangerous, especially with his wanting to cause "mass casualties" at his school. Good thing a major disaster was averted.

Makes me wonder if he has a father.


And:

MOO

If the Nikolas Cruz school shooting plan took place in another state, possibly up north, he too would had his plans intercepted by LE.

Again, MOO only.

 

[Inthedetails]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

"A Florida social services agency conducted an in-home investigation of Nikolas Cruz after he exhibited troubling behavior nearly a year and a half before he shot and killed 17 people at his former high school in Florida, a state report shows....

But after visiting and questioning Mr. Cruz at his home, the department determined he was at low risk of harming himself or others."

 

[Latestforever]

This Sawyer boy sounds extremely dangerous, especially with his wanting to cause "mass casualties" at his school. Good thing a major disaster was averted.

Makes me wonder if he has a father.


And:

MOO

If the Nikolas Cruz school shooting plan took place in another state, possibly up north, he too would had his plans intercepted by LE.

Again, MOO only.

Why do you say up north?

 

[Safeguard]

From this article previously posted:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...al-nikolas-cruz-abusive-mom-article-1.3826633

"Among the more disturbing reports was a Jan., 15, 2013, incident where Nikolas — then age 14 — refused to attend school. He exploded in anger after Lynda Cruz hid her son’s Xbox as a punishment.

The youth “retaliated and threw a chair, dog bowl and a drinking glass across the room” before denouncing his mom as a “useless b---h,” according to the police report.

Nikolas Cruz was handcuffed and held in the back of a police car until a counselor from a nearby behavioral health facility arrived with prescribed medicine that calmed him down."


XBOX- what games was he playing? I am sorry to be a echo chamber, but were they first person violent video games? This is a discussion that has to be added to the national dialogue. IMO it cannot be ignored, it is one of the elephants in the room.

BBM

Adressing the bolded:

In my opinion it's less of an "elephant in the room" then it is a Red Herring...

No media exists that will turn an emotionally healthy person into a killer, any more than a normal four year old who plays "Whack-a-Mole" would ever be inclined to bash in the head of an actual mole with a mallet.

I have a son who's been a Sergeant in the Army for 20 years now. He owns guns, goes target shooting and he still plays Call of Duty and other games, which he has done since he was young.

He has never harmed an animal or another human being in his life intentionally. All of my sons have played games, listened to music, watched movies, with violent content, as have I.

In fact, I am a huge Stephen King fan, love horror movies, and as I recall, I had a respectable high score in Mortal Combat back in the day...

I remember I took a lot of crap off people who insisted that my son was going to be a failure in life because of how often he played these video games.

The underlying basis of most of these games are about skill and strategy. No sane individual would believe that these games have any bearing on what would happen in real life, if you shot someone.

My son has great leadership skills and strategic skills and he took those skills, honed in those video games and he now uses them as Army Special Forces Air Defense, to protect you. All of us.

He did not take from those games "gee I should be a mass murderer".

Of all people, we who feed our minds day in and day out, with violent crimes, here on websleuth should understand the distinction. Jmo.

 

[Trident]

I'm all ears, what's the better plan?

I believe we all agree some people, those who have exhibited dangerous behavior, need to be taken out of society for everyone's good. That means we need to have a secure, hospital setting of some sort. Am I correct so far?

I further believe we need to find a way to KEEP people on medication that has been PROVEN to help. How am I doing?

In order to do this, certain LAWS need to be changed, ie, the one about taking the medication.

Then there are a lot of other things to be taken into consideration, such as funding, what type of facility is best, staffing, what type of doctors, what criteria for sending some there.

I believe if we consider all the options, ONE at a time, we can ALL come up with some VIABLE solutions, but we need to take it ONE step at a time, lay a solid foundation. This is, after all, about the safety of our children, and the rest of us. There are no easy answers, but with all the brain power we seem to have, I don't see why a solution can't be found - ONE step at a time. Where would anyone/everyone like to start?

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Although psychiatric hospitals still exist, the dearth of long-term care options for the mentally ill in the U.S. is acute, the researchers say. State-run psychiatric facilities house 45,000 patients, less than a tenth of the number of patients they did in 1955. With the doubling of the U.S. population, the researchers write, this is a 95 percent decline.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/384838/

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Also, the treatment plan is to medicate & release.

This only works for patients who are compliant and take their meds willingly.

This does not work for the non-compliant patients.


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[MaryG12]

Why do you say up north?

Because it's the wild west down here

:scared:

 

[MaryG12]

I believe we all agree some people, those who have exhibited dangerous behavior, need to be taken out of society for everyone's good. That means we need to have a secure, hospital setting of some sort. Am I correct so far?

I further believe we need to find a way to KEEP people on medication that has been PROVEN to help. How am I doing?

In order to do this, certain LAWS need to be changed, ie, the one about taking the medication.

Then there are a lot of other things to be taken into consideration, such as funding, what type of facility is best, staffing, what type of doctors, what criteria for sending some there.

I believe if we consider all the options, ONE at a time, we can ALL come up with some VIABLE solutions, but we need to take it ONE step at a time, lay a solid foundation. This is, after all, about the safety of our children, and the rest of us. There are no easy answers, but with all the brain power we seem to have, I don't see why a solution can be found - ONE step at a time. Where would anyone/everyone like to start?

I am with you there, Trident. It would be a great start.

 

[Spellbound]

Lots of new info here

To longtime friend, school shooter Nikolas Cruz was lonely, volatile, ostracized

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article200754714.html

From your link. No particular reason I chose these points, other than we have discussed them a bit earlier in the thread. First time I have seen these addressed.:

“His mother made a major push to have him lead a normal life,” said Gold, “But toward the end of her life, she really had given up.''

—
Cruz had been diagnosed with the neurological disorder autism. Michael Alessandri, a clinical professor of psychology at the University of Miami, cautioned that Cruz’s diagnosis of autism should not be viewed as a cause of his attack at Stoneman Douglas High.

“It is a social communication disorder, not a violent disorder,” Alessandri said.
—
Roger Cruz bought the five-bedroom, three-bath home in Pine Tree estates for $94,000 in 1996. By the time he died, he left a $1 million estate, including the house, which by then was worth more than $570,000, county records show.
He and his wife met when they were married to other people, then married later in life after divorces. Gold said he wasn’t sure when the boys were adopted, but they didn’t learn they were adopted until they were in their teens.
“The family had money. Lynda even had his life insurance money — but she was very, very frugal,...
—
Runcie said contrary to media reports, Cruz wasn’t expelled, but rather he was transferred to a school for students with behavioral issues.
—
In Florida, absent a felony or domestic abuse conviction, almost any adult can walk into a gun store and walk out the same day with an AR-15 rifle and a cache of ammunition after clearing a simple background check.
—

After Gold and Deschamps split up and went their separate ways a few years ago, Nikolas stayed in touch with Gold. His mother remained best friends with Deschamps, who took Nikolas and his brother into her home after their mother died.
But Nikolas left that locale a few weeks later, after a dispute over him having a gun.
—
Lynda Cruz came down with the flu last year and refused to get medical treatment, Gold said. “She was so frugal, she didn’t want to spend the money, she wanted to save everything for the boys,’’ Gold said.
By then she had sold the house and moved into an apartment. When she died, Nikolas called Gold and asked him if he would drive him to the funeral. The only attendees, Gold said, were Nikolas, his brother, Gold and Deschamps.
“He was very strange at the funeral,’’ Gold said. “He was emotionless. He was polite and grateful but he didn’t shed a tear. His mother was the most important person in his life, but that boy did not feel the way that normal people feel.’’




Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article200754714.html#storylink=cpy


Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article200754714.html#storylink=cpy

 

[MaryG12]

[/B]
BBM

Adressing the bolded:

In my opinion it's less of an "elephant in the room" then it is a Red Herring...

No media exists that will turn an emotionally healthy person into a killer, any more than a normal four year old who plays "Whack-a-Mole" would ever be inclined to bash in the head of an actual mole with a mallet.

I have a son who's been a Sergeant in the Army for 20 years now. He owns guns, goes target shooting and he still plays Call of Duty and other games, which he has done since he was young.

He has never harmed an animal or another human being in his life intentionally. All of my sons have played games, listened to music, watched movies, with violent content, as have I.

In fact, I am a huge Stephen King fan, love horror movies, and as I recall, I had a respectable high score in Mortal Combat back in the day...

I remember I took a lot of crap off people who insisted that my son was going to be a failure in life because of how often he played these video games.

The underlying basis of most of these games are about skill and strategy. No sane individual would believe that these games have any bearing on what would happen in real life, if you shot someone.

My son has great leadership skills and strategic skills and he took those skills, honed in those video games and he now uses them as Army Special Forces Air Defense, to protect you. All of us.

He did not take from those games "gee I should be a mass murderer".

Of all people, we who feed our minds day in and day out, with violent crimes, here on websleuth should understand the distinction. Jmo.

Individuals like you and me, I think most here on WS, are well enough grounded in reality to recognize where boundaries for things like horror movies, video games, start and end. I have my own horror (mostly classic slashers) DVD collection, along with my gunslinging DVD collection with Mr Tyler (my avatar).

With that grounding in place, one becomes in control of activities like the above, versus allowing the activities to control oneself.

Thank you for your post because I feel it is very important, thus allowing me my response.

 

[Spellbound]

Maybe in Florida but they still exist in other states.

there are some stilll, but it is quite different than before the late 1960’s:

[FONT=&amp]The closure of state psychiatric hospitals in the United States was codified by the Community Mental Health Centers Act of 1963, and strict standards were passed so that only individuals “who posed an imminent danger to themselves or someone else” could be committed to state psychiatric hospitals.[/FONT](8)[FONT=&amp] By the mid-1960s in the U.S., many severely mentally ill people had been moved from psychiatric institutions to local mental health homes or similar facilities. The number of institutionalized mentally ill patients fell from its peak of 560,000 in the 1950s to 130,000 by 1980.[/FONT](9)[FONT=&amp] By 2000, the number of state psychiatric hospital beds per 100,000 people was 22, down from 339 in 1955.[/FONT](10)[FONT=&amp] In place of institutionalized care, community-based mental health care was developed to include a range of treatment facilities, from community mental health centers and smaller supervised residential homes to community-based psychiatric teams.[/FONT](11)
http://www.uniteforsight.org/mental-health/module2
A brief histoy of mental illness and US mental health care system

 

[mrsobrien]

Also, the treatment plan is to medicate & release.

This only works for patients who are compliant and take their meds willingly.

This does not work for the non-compliant patients.


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I ended up removing my son from his first high school because of something like this. A certain student was noncompliant with medication and was often violent. He attacked my son physically at least six times in two years, and other students as well. Parents complained, of course, but no visible action was ever taken to stop the kid.
The final straw for me was when this teen brought a knife to class and threatened the teacher. The school went into lock down. Fortunately, this disturbed student picked the wrong teacher to mess with, a tiny female retired from the Israeli military. She disarmed and restrained him.
I thought he'd surely be removed from the student body after that, but nope! He was back after only a few days. I was not comfortable with sending my son there after that. He's now in a very small independent study program, working mainly from home.
What do we do to protect our kids/teens from the ones that are obviously not well?

 

[Trident]

there are some stilll, but it is quite different than before the late 1960’s:

[FONT=&amp]The closure of state psychiatric hospitals in the United States was codified by the Community Mental Health Centers Act of 1963, and strict standards were passed so that only individuals “who posed an imminent danger to themselves or someone else” could be committed to state psychiatric hospitals.[/FONT](8)[FONT=&amp] By the mid-1960s in the U.S., many severely mentally ill people had been moved from psychiatric institutions to local mental health homes or similar facilities. The number of institutionalized mentally ill patients fell from its peak of 560,000 in the 1950s to 130,000 by 1980.[/FONT](9)[FONT=&amp] By 2000, the number of state psychiatric hospital beds per 100,000 people was 22, down from 339 in 1955.[/FONT](10)[FONT=&amp] In place of institutionalized care, community-based mental health care was developed to include a range of treatment facilities, from community mental health centers and smaller supervised residential homes to community-based psychiatric teams.[/FONT](11)
http://www.uniteforsight.org/mental-health/module2
A brief histoy of mental illness and US mental health care system

Thank you for that. Now, where do we go from here?

 

[HMSHood]

I believe we all agree some people, those who have exhibited dangerous behavior, need to be taken out of society for everyone's good. That means we need to have a secure, hospital setting of some sort. Am I correct so far?

I further believe we need to find a way to KEEP people on medication that has been PROVEN to help. How am I doing?

In order to do this, certain LAWS need to be changed, ie, the one about taking the medication.

Then there are a lot of other things to be taken into consideration, such as funding, what type of facility is best, staffing, what type of doctors, what criteria for sending some there.

I believe if we consider all the options, ONE at a time, we can ALL come up with some VIABLE solutions, but we need to take it ONE step at a time, lay a solid foundation. This is, after all, about the safety of our children, and the rest of us. There are no easy answers, but with all the brain power we seem to have, I don't see why a solution can't be found - ONE step at a time. Where would anyone/everyone like to start?

The ones who are clearly dangerous to others is a start.

Most mentally ill people are dangerous to themselves.

 

[Gooddeeds]

Any info on the family inheritance that his Mother mentioned being left for the boys? TIA and sorry if this has been previously posted.

 

[MsFacetious]

What if the mother refused to raise him out of fear? She had a younger son and herself to protect. It seems she had the money to send him to a private instution.
There's no way I'd allow a violent person to remain in my house.

I am not aware of an institution, money or not that you can simply send a child to. Treatment centers, boarding schools, but not institutions.
The quickest option would be to turn the child over to the state, which would likely result in them taking the other child as well. Then they would just be a danger to foster families.

What's the difference between keeping a person in a secure location if they don't take their meds and institutionalizing a violent child? Adult vs minor?

You can't just drop someone off at an institution anymore. It's way more complicated. My suggestion is that we use LONG ACTING meds as an alternative to a secure location for those proven dangerous. If they don't want the meds, they can have the secure location. It would be a choice for them. Only in extreme cases would it ever be forced on anyone.

In Florida, absent a felony or domestic abuse conviction, almost any adult can walk into a gun store and walk out the same day with an AR-15 rifle and a cache of ammunition after clearing a simple background check.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article200754714.html#storylink=cpy

THIS is where the failure occurred. He SHOULD have had a domestic violence conviction from what we have heard. If he'd been charged, he wouldn't have been able to LEGALLY obtain a firearm. 39 police calls, never charged. That's not right.

 

[HMSHood]

I ended up removing my son from his first high school because of something like this. A certain student was noncompliant with medication and was often violent. He attacked my son physically at least six times in two years, and other students as well. Parents complained, of course, but no visible action was ever taken to stop the kid.
The final straw for me was when this teen brought a knife to class and threatened the teacher. The school went into lock down. Fortunately, this disturbed student picked the wrong teacher to mess with, a tiny female retired from the Israeli military. She disarmed and restrained him.
I thought he'd surely be removed from the student body after that, but nope! He was back after only a few days. I was not comfortable with sending my son there after that. He's now in a very small independent study program, working mainly from home.
What do we do to protect our kids/teens from the ones that are obviously not well?

That is really disturbing.

That student who attacked your son sounds like another Nikolas Cruz.

 

[Trident]

The ones who are clearly dangerous to others is a start.

Most mentally ill people are dangerous to themselves.

Very true. Now, where do we put them when they are "removed" from among us, at least temporarily?

ADDED: What are the criteria for removal?