FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #3 *Arrest*

[MaryG12]

Many many years ago back in my home state of CT I knew someone - a fairly young mother, divorced, who was having problems with her son (he apparently was racking up a felony record as a teen) and she shipped him off to Avon Old Farms school. It must have done him some good because by the time he was out (graduated) he had straightened out somewhat.

 

[MaryG12]

I can't imagine how they even will be able to go back to the campus, let alone that building.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Lawmakers agree to destroy site of school carnage: ‘This building has to come down’


http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article200564969.html

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Counselors, psychologists, psychiatrists do not give defined adult-type of mental health diagnosises.....when evaluating a child or adolescent.

Moo

rssb

Speaking from experience, and to clarify, yes, they do. Some diagnoses REQUIRE a person to be of a specific level of age/brain development (schizophrenia, for example).

But defined diagnoses happen quite frequently. Clinical depression is clinical depression, for example. Suicidal ideation is suicidal ideation. ADHD. Eating disorder. PTSD. Stuff like that.

 

[CARIIS]

More than a dozen school officials, teachers and administrators had cited Cruz in at least 41 disciplinary incidents from May 2012 to January 2017, often for fighting, minor assaults and profane insults.

Sad all the way around

Quite repulsive IMO:

He categorized the agency’s involvement with Cruz as a single “run-of-the-mill” investigation following an allegation of abuse or neglect.

court appearance video here :

https://www.naplesnews.com/story/ne...vice-records-nikolas-cruz-released/352712002/

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

rssb

Speaking from experience, and to clarify, yes, they do. Some diagnoses REQUIRE a person to be of a specific level of age/brain development (schizophrenia, for example).

But defined diagnoses happen quite frequently. Clinical depression is clinical depression, for example. Suicidal ideation is suicidal ideation. ADHD. Eating disorder. PTSD. Stuff like that.

I agree with your first paragraph. We aren’t going to diagnose a teen with a Cluster B, Axis II diagnosis.

However, your second paragraph lists “defined diagnosis” which are symptoms—and yes, those symptoms get assigned to our non-adult populations but we know they are not DSM-V adult diagnosis. And we know what the likely diagnosis will be when the child or teen becomes an adult....it is often too predictable.

 

[gitana1]

No, we don't know anything of the sort. People are just speculating. Looking at his face, I don't see the clear features of FAS. His nose doesn't look short, his upper lip doesn't look thin, etc.

I thought FAS the minute I saw his face. It's similar to someone I know with the condition.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

More than a dozen school officials, teachers and administrators had cited Cruz in at least 41 disciplinary incidents from May 2012 to January 2017, often for fighting, minor assaults and profane insults.

Sad all the way around

Quite repulsive IMO:

He categorized the agency’s involvement with Cruz as a single “run-of-the-mill” investigation following an allegation of abuse or neglect.

court appearance video here :

https://www.naplesnews.com/story/ne...vice-records-nikolas-cruz-released/352712002/

“Run-of-the-mill.” Man, that’s hard to wrap my head around. Depressing.

 

[Gooddeeds]

More than a dozen school officials, teachers and administrators had cited Cruz in at least 41 disciplinary incidents from May 2012 to January 2017, often for fighting, minor assaults and profane insults.

Sad all the way around

Quite repulsive IMO:

He categorized the agency’s involvement with Cruz as a single “run-of-the-mill” investigation following an allegation of abuse or neglect.

court appearance video here :

https://www.naplesnews.com/story/ne...vice-records-nikolas-cruz-released/352712002/

Yes! Very sad...

‘At least 41 incidents...’ Between 2012-2017, so approximately 10 ‘reported’ per year.

No wonder his Mother felt isolated and had no current real friendships established. I imagine her immune system was so fragile and unable to recover.

 

[MsFacetious]

Airports & court houses & government buildings have detectors & guards/police.

Yes, but children don't spend 8 hours a day in those places.
I've been into courthouses with my children and it alarmed them.
I home school, my kids wouldn't want to attend school if it was like a court house or jail.
Unfortunately that may be the only type of school our grandchildren experience....

 

[CARIIS]

Very interesting article. Thank you for sharing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here are the monkeys!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5piTfu4PPeA

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I agree with your first paragraph. We aren’t going to diagnose a teen with a Cluster B, Axis II diagnosis.

However, your second paragraph lists “defined diagnosis” which are symptoms—and yes, those symptoms get assigned to our non-adult populations but we know they are not DSM-V adult diagnosis. And we know what the likely diagnosis will be when the child or teen becomes an adult....it is often too predictable.

I agree with your last sentence.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICD-10_Chapter_V:_Mental_and_behavioural_disorders

 

[CARIIS]

The testing done on children/young adults varies in terms of its depth. I wonder if the diagnoses that are being reported are the result of a thorough examination and test battery. I feel like there is something more. If the family was self-reporting his diagnosis to those assessing him, could they have left something out? A good first step is making sure the evaluations done are thorough and accurate.

Mental health is in reality about behavior or behaving, thinking and feeling.

I have often been surprised on threads like these the amount of skepticism regarding these folks.

At some level IMO it reflects , as a society how poorly we have done (hence here we are?)in believing mental illness is illness.

As if it is a choice.

We accept that we have no control over
one getting cancer or not. Why are neurotransmitters so different?

The brain is an amazing entity -- to believe that it cant go awry is very befuddling to me.

Identical to physical illness there are
solid clusters of symptoms (behavior) here.

Medical is science. I grew to realize that good therapy is more like an art. Never the same. Every 45 minutes is a completely new 45 minutes.

There are no liver transplant routines if you will.

I truly do not believe this guy, Holmes,Lanza are not up to any fame desires.

I am not really all that sure about the injustice collectors wide spread. He is too underdeveloped to be that profound. I think a lot of these are far more fundamentally organic. Things are not firing properly. It takes cunning to be anti social or narcissistic.

This is like basic inability to manage.

Watching the video of him in court today resulted in feelings of sadness for him.

So lost. So gone. So empty.

It is not a choice -- defective .

I suppose being angry at him or others might help some.

It has never been there for me.

Does not change anything.

I really believe if someone killed a family member I would have no need or want for a DP case.

I have always felt that way. Would not help me at -- at least I don't think so.

As a society we try endlessly to get ourselves to this place of safety. Which at some level is really an impossibility.

Sadly we should have learned by now we are powerless in some domains. This is one.

Put up barricades they find ways around.

The endless amount of money we spend trying to pretend we are safe - really? Look where we are now.

Day after day after day waking up or eating a Lunesta after another machine gun rage.

Then they went for cars and trucks . Nice totally wigged me out . Totally. Cause it almost seems like you would not be able to NOT turn away from people in front of you

Like a reflex.

Weapons have never been a part of my life our anyone I have EVER met. Ever.

There gross. But it seems to me money ought to be spent in mental health arena more than any other- cause that seems to be the only way to possibly slow these down.

Once the person gets to the point where they want . need to kill its already past a certain point.

And this one really hits home cause it is
the same stuff I battled professionally for ages. DCF LE zero options and money.

I think that was why I was so hung up on affluence as it was breaking. But as we learned more her age has much to do with this I think. That is not blame.

She if from the generation that is even worse than now regarding mental health.

She parented old school it seems. I get that from the altercation regarding the license or whatever it was.

Sounds like it escalated everything. A lot.

But I think that stems from believing that the tantrums and inability to manage feelings or frustration and anger "correctly" is a choice.

Folks here who have a loved one suffering with illness in this domain know and
learn that there are different things that have to be done when addressing these individuals.

I don't think he will remain alive .

The whole scene is sad imo

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Holy moly, CARIIS. Great post. Thank you for sharing your insight.

Mental health is in reality about behavior or behaving, thinking and feeling.

I have often been surprised on threads like these the amount of skepticism regarding these folks.

At some level IMO it reflects , as a society how poorly we have done (hence here we are?)in believing mental illness is illness.

As if it is a choice.

We accept that we have no control over
one getting cancer or not. Why are neurotransmitters so different?

The brain is an amazing entity -- to believe that it cant go awry is very befuddling to me.

Identical to physical illness there are
solid clusters of symptoms (behavior) here.

Medical is science. I grew to realize that good therapy is more like an art. Never the same. Every 45 minutes is a completely new 45 minutes.

There are no liver transplant routines if you will.

I truly do not believe this guy, Holmes,Lanza are not up to any fame desires.

I am not really all that sure about the injustice collectors wide spread. He is too underdeveloped to be that profound. I think a lot of these are far more fundamentally organic. Things are not firing properly. It takes cunning to be anti social or narcissistic.

This is like basic inability to manage.

Watching the video of him in court today resulted in feelings of sadness for him.

So lost. So gone. So empty.

It is not a choice -- defective .

I suppose being angry at him or others might help some.

It has never been there for me.

Does not change anything.

I really believe if someone killed a family member I would have no need or want for a DP case.

I have always felt that way. Would not help me at -- at least I don't think so.

As a society we try endlessly to get ourselves to this place of safety. Which at some level is really an impossibility.

Sadly we should have learned by now we are powerless in some domains. This is one.

Put up barricades they find ways around.

The endless amount of money we spend trying to pretend we are safe - really? Look where we are now.

Day after day after day waking up or eating a Lunesta after another machine gun rage.

Then they went for cars and trucks . Nice totally wigged me out . Totally. Cause it almost seems like you would not be able to NOT turn away from people in front of you

Like a reflex.

Weapons have never been a part of my life our anyone I have EVER met. Ever.

There gross. But it seems to me money ought to be spent in mental health arena more than any other- cause that seems to be the only way to possibly slow these down.

Once the person gets to the point where they want . need to kill its already past a certain point.

And this one really hits home cause it is
the same stuff I battled professionally for ages. DCF LE zero options and money.

I think that was why I was so hung up on affluence as it was breaking. But as we learned more her age has much to do with this I think. That is not blame.

She if from the generation that is even worse than now regarding mental health.

She parented old school it seems. I get that from the altercation regarding the license or whatever it was.

Sounds like it escalated everything. A lot.

But I think that stems from believing that the tantrums and inability to manage feelings or frustration and anger "correctly" is a choice.

Folks here who have a loved one suffering with illness in this domain know and
learn that there are different things that have to be done when addressing these individuals.

I don't think he will remain alive .

The whole scene is sad imo

 

[Inthedetails]

Whatever is necessary to keep innocents safe should be done.

I agree. And I think we're not going to do whatever is necessary because it's too hard. What is necessary, imo, is spending time with children.

It's easier to train a dog to sniff for guns than stop whatever we're so busy doing and raise our kids, in person, face-to-face, without the need of a screen or a drone.

My opinion, not expecting it to be popular.

 

[CARIIS]

Cruz’s defense team seeks to keep court filings sealed
David Fleshler And Megan O'Matz, Sun Sentinel

Fort Lauderdale, Fla. – Defense lawyers for Parkland school shooter Nikolas Cruz attempted to keep documents sealed Monday, in a Fort Lauderdale court hearing held without the defendant’s presence...

At issue was a motion filed under seal Friday by Cruz’s defense team, two days after the shooting that left 17 dead at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. The sealed document was not described. The defense also signaled that they would want to keep future documents under seal...

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/nation/2018/02/19/florida-school-shooting/110600450/

In the artile linked earlier it sounds like they released a whole bunch of stuff

 

[CARIIS]

Look at it another way.

Most of the guests at his resort are will be wealthy and probably Republicans voters.

It's the Republicans who need to be engaged in a new way with and won over to the gun control cause.

From what I understand the school is in a wealthy (and probably Republican) area, and many of the students who witnessed and survived the attack would likely have ended up as Republican voters.

There's little need to talk to Democrat voters and influencers about gun control because they are already pretty much on board.

But opening up a dialogue with ordinary Republicans might, just might, be what tips the balance. Maybe not today or even this year, but maybe in a few years.

Lawrence had the kids on none of their parents voted for him -- they said so!!

 

[Gooddeeds]

Mental health is in reality about behavior or behaving, thinking and feeling.

I have often been surprised on threads like these the amount of skepticism regarding these folks.

At some level IMO it reflects , as a society how poorly we have done (hence here we are?)in believing mental illness is illness.

As if it is a choice.

We accept that we have no control over
one getting cancer or not. Why are neurotransmitters so different?

The brain is an amazing entity -- to believe that it cant go awry is very befuddling to me.

Identical to physical illness there are
solid clusters of symptoms (behavior) here.

Medical is science. I grew to realize that good therapy is more like an art. Never the same. Every 45 minutes is a completely new 45 minutes.

There are no liver transplant routines if you will.

I truly do not believe this guy, Holmes,Lanza are not up to any fame desires.

I am not really all that sure about the injustice collectors wide spread. He is too underdeveloped to be that profound. I think a lot of these are far more fundamentally organic. Things are not firing properly. It takes cunning to be anti social or narcissistic.

This is like basic inability to manage.

Watching the video of him in court today resulted in feelings of sadness for him.

So lost. So gone. So empty.

It is not a choice -- defective .

I suppose being angry at him or others might help some.

It has never been there for me.

Does not change anything.

I really believe if someone killed a family member I would have no need or want for a DP case.

I have always felt that way. Would not help me at -- at least I don't think so.

As a society we try endlessly to get ourselves to this place of safety. Which at some level is really an impossibility.

Sadly we should have learned by now we are powerless in some domains. This is one.

Put up barricades they find ways around.

The endless amount of money we spend trying to pretend we are safe - really? Look where we are now.

Day after day after day waking up or eating a Lunesta after another machine gun rage.

Then they went for cars and trucks . Nice totally wigged me out . Totally. Cause it almost seems like you would not be able to NOT turn away from people in front of you

Like a reflex.

Weapons have never been a part of my life our anyone I have EVER met. Ever.

There gross. But it seems to me money ought to be spent in mental health arena more than any other- cause that seems to be the only way to possibly slow these down.

Once the person gets to the point where they want . need to kill its already past a certain point.

And this one really hits home cause it is
the same stuff I battled professionally for ages. DCF LE zero options and money.

I think that was why I was so hung up on affluence as it was breaking. But as we learned more her age has much to do with this I think. That is not blame.

She if from the generation that is even worse than now regarding mental health.

She parented old school it seems. I get that from the altercation regarding the license or whatever it was.

Sounds like it escalated everything. A lot.

But I think that stems from believing that the tantrums and inability to manage feelings or frustration and anger "correctly" is a choice.

Folks here who have a loved one suffering with illness in this domain know and
learn that there are different things that have to be done when addressing these individuals.

I don't think he will remain alive .

The whole scene is sad imo

Much to be said on what he genetically inherited when he was born. That wasn’t his choice from the very get go. Who knows what he was exposed to before adaption. And thereafter...depending on what his parents were able to discern or understand regarding potential development and behavioral issues.

An intense set of circumstances surrounding his life that are extremely sad...in substance and form. I’m surprised he made it this far. To not have any friends, or extended family members in just the simplest of ways for a teenager is so rough to navigate. I can’t imagine going to your mothers funeral at the age of 19 and have only 3 people show up...and have to ask for a ride to get there...

 

[jjenny]

Much to be said on what he genetically inherited when he was born. That wasn’t his choice from the very get go. Who knows what he was exposed to before adaption. And thereafter...depending on what his parents were able to discern or understand regarding potential development and behavioral issues.

An intense set of circumstances surrounding his life that are extremely sad...in substance and form. I’m surprised he made it this far. To not have any friends, or extended family members in just the simplest of ways for a teenager is so rough to navigate. I can’t imagine going to your mothers funeral at the age of 19 and have only 3 people show up...and have to ask for a ride to get there...

Well, hopefully he will make a lot of new friends in prison so it will be much nicer for him now.

 

[CARIIS]

Do we know if he had FASD? Would explain a lot of his behaviors.
The next question, what solutions do we offer struggling parents with kids with behavioral issues? Seems like she was overwhelmed.

The only thing that really helps is to help the
parent
UNDERSTAND what is going on for the child which results in the rough behavior.

Interacting with someone who is not processing
the world around them escalates , then the parent escalates and then a mess

for anything unless someone understands and BELIEVES it aint gonna work

 

[HMSHood]

He clearly was very aggressive towards his adopted mother and half brother.

He was very hostile towards teachers and staffs. He also harassed people. Nikolas Cruz is a serial bully.

Serial Bully
https://bullyonline.org/index.php/bullies/5-serial-bully

Recognisable Characteristics
Perhaps the most easily recognisable character traits of a Serial Bully are:
-Jekyll and Hyde nature - Dr Jekyll is "charming" and "charismatic"; "Hyde" is "evil";
-Convincing liar - Makes up anything to fit his needs at that moment, and gets believed;
-Treats some people in a way that causes them unprecedented levels of stress, frustration and fear;
-Damages the health and reputations of organisations and individuals;
-Reacts to criticism with denial, retaliation and by feigning victimhood and blaming victims;
-Apparently immune from disciplinary action;
-Moves to a new target when the present one burns out or leaves.

Nikolas Cruz shows all signs of a serial bully based on the characteristics. Same goes with Omar Mateen, Devin Kelley, and Eric Harris.

The focus of this section is serial bullying in workplaces, but the character profile fits most types of abusers, including:

abusive and violent partners and family members
abusers of people in care
bullying neighbours, landlords, authorities, etc
confidence tricksters and swindlers
(religious) cult leaders
child bullies who are impervious to corrective action
racial and sexual harassers
sexual abusers and paedophiles, especially operating from a position of trust or untouchability;
rapists
stalkers
arsonists
violent offenders including serial killers

It should be no surprise that the likes Nikolas Cruz, Eric Harris, Devin Kelley, Stephen Paddock, Lori Drew, Larry Nassar, Jerry Sandusky, and Osama bin Laden are serial bullies.

No one is calling for what it is. Nikolas Cruz is a textbook example of a bully, a serial bully.