FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #3 *Arrest*

[mrsobrien]

I've skipped some pages so this might have been posted already, but:

"The woman left in charge of the accused Florida school shooter and his brother after their mom died last year filed court papers the day after the massacre seeking to be put in charge of the dead woman’s will — then had the alleged shooter’s brother involuntarily committed, a source close to the family revealed to The Post."

https://nypost.com/2018/02/20/woman-who-took-in-florida-shooter-wants-control-of-his-inheritance/

Could she be more obvious? Gross. :-/

 

[Peculiar]

Thank you for that! Yes, see... that report there was the report that was investigating mom. I worked in mental health for so long! Dealing with a person like Nikolas is absolutely exhausting. So much so that his behavior got her investigated.

I think I remember saying he cut his arms after he had seen or heard someone else talk about it. Mimicking behavior was not uncommon in some of my clients diagnosed with Autism. It is just another form of them studying behavior to fit in. Not a true form of behavior that comes from within.

Moral of the story is still the same
... mental health needs attention and resources. Parents and schools should never be left with the minimal options they have, to treat severe mental health issues in children. It might not be fun and it's easier to just say they must not have been parented enough, but some of it is bigger than that. Much bigger than that.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I've notice a few things we've been told about Nikolas Cruz is behavior common with kids that have autism. I can't think of many examples but the stories about him smacking his head and being really obsessive and only talking about guns/military remind me of autism. Oh, and he jumped off the back of a bus because a peer told him to. (Easily influenced, trying to fit in, like you said.) I'm sure you can provide more solid info and confirm if this reminds you too, if you don't mind, since you worked in mental health. Thanks!

Here's the quote from this article: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article200754714.html

“He would bang his head with his hands, and often lose control over minor things, like loud sounds,” Gold recalled.

 

[cujenn81]

I’m in rural Ohio and there’s been threats of school violence here in my area since yesterday. There were bomb threats yesterday and a boy in our neighboring town took a gun to school this morning and shot himself. There’s reports now that he also may have had a backpack filled with some type of explosives on campus.
He’s in the hospital (no condition available), and all of our local schools in a 2 county area are locked down and now closed with all students being bussed home due to threats.
My friends and families kids are terrified...so afraid to go to school every morning and the parents are seriously considering homeschooling.
It’s just so sad. [emoji22]

ETA Update: The 13 year old boy took a rifle to school in his backpack. Went to the restroom and had planned to shoot up the school but accidentally shot himself. Recovering in the hospital.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is apparently happening all over the country right now. It seems a bit like "suicide contagion," which was once a huge problem in this country. The media has changed their protocol for reporting on suicides, particularly when celebrities are involved, and suicide contagion has significantly deceased over time as a result.

We've had similar issues at the schools in my community recently, as well. Two days after the shooting in FL, one high school student was arrested for "a school disturbance". Another high school was placed on lockdown first thing Monday morning (the students had a makeup day because of inclement weather earlier this year) due to rumors spread on social media about possible threats that were made -- 92% of the student population had been signed out of school by the end of the day. I know that students at two additional high schools in the area, as well as one intermediate school, have been disciplined in some form or fashion for posing a threat in some way (whether those students were arrested, suspended, expelled, etc.). So yeah, this appears to be happening all over the place.

These are just a few of the stories from my area -

Deputies find illustrated plans targeting classmates, teachers after student makes threat at school, officials sayhttp://www.wmbfnews.com/story/37550166/deputies-find-illustrated-plans-targeting-classmates-teachers-after-student-makes-threat-at-school-officials-say

Almost all of Dillon High's students signed out Monday after social media threat to schoolhttp://www.wmbfnews.com/story/37537514/almost-all-of-dillon-highs-students-signed-out-monday-after-social-media-threat-to-school

Student charged with disturbing schools following social media threat against Socastee Highhttp://www.wmbfnews.com/story/37527348/student-charged-with-disturbing-schools-following-social-media-threat-against-socastee-high

Man arrested after posting false threats to high school on Facebookhttp://www.wmbfnews.com/story/37524466/man-arrested-after-posting-false-threats-to-high-school-on-facebook

 

[Peculiar]

This is apparently happening all over the country right now. It seems a bit like "suicide contagion," which was once a huge problem in this country. The media has changed their protocol for reporting on suicides, particularly when celebrities are involved, and suicide contagion has significantly deceased over time as a result.

We've had similar issues at the schools in my community recently, as well. Two days after the shooting in FL, one high school student was arrested for "a school disturbance". Another high school was placed on lockdown first thing Monday morning (the students had a makeup day because of inclement weather earlier this year) due to rumors spread on social media about possible threats that were made -- 92% of the student population had been signed out of school by the end of the day. I know that students at two additional high schools in the area, as well as one intermediate school, have been disciplined in some form or fashion for posing a threat in some way (whether those students were arrested, suspended, expelled, etc.). So yeah, this appears to be happening all over the place.

These are just a few of the stories from my area -

Deputies find illustrated plans targeting classmates, teachers after student makes threat at school, officials sayhttp://www.wmbfnews.com/story/37550166/deputies-find-illustrated-plans-targeting-classmates-teachers-after-student-makes-threat-at-school-officials-say

Almost all of Dillon High's students signed out Monday after social media threat to schoolhttp://www.wmbfnews.com/story/37537514/almost-all-of-dillon-highs-students-signed-out-monday-after-social-media-threat-to-school

Student charged with disturbing schools following social media threat against Socastee Highhttp://www.wmbfnews.com/story/37527348/student-charged-with-disturbing-schools-following-social-media-threat-against-socastee-high

Man arrested after posting false threats to high school on Facebookhttp://www.wmbfnews.com/story/37524466/man-arrested-after-posting-false-threats-to-high-school-on-facebook

Here in Kentucky, there was lots of threats and a few arrests. This was all over in many different counties, including my own.

 

[Alleykins]

Now that you mention it, I believe we've had two or three instances in my state of school lock-downs due to threats, too, since this tragedy.

 

[kaen]

Great information about alcohol and drug use during pregnancy and the lifelong effects on fetal development.
Notice how many times the term "brain damage" is used here. Brain damage, how would any adoptive parents
know what they were getting? Lifelong brain damage.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4262892/

An adoptive parent never knows what they are "getting". Bio parents have much more information about teratogens they have exposed their fetus to but that is not always the whole story. In this day and age the kinds of environmental contagions are not yet known how they impact a fetus. If we look at Agent Orange use in Vietnam, we can see that 4 generations later children continue to be born with physical/brain malformations.

At the end of the day, bio or adoptive children can have all kinds of anomalies that can become mental illness, cancers, diabetes -type I, etc. Illness happens. Children have accidents-- multiple concussions, etc. Accidents happen.

 

[CARIIS]

Now that you mention it, I believe we've had two or three instances in my state of school lock-downs due to threats, too, since this tragedy.

there were like 5 in fl the day after

 

[Karinna]

I think this was a big part of the problem with NC. Although they can't say what exactly his mental health issues were. Whether he had FAS? i haven't seen that verified yet?
(quote)
Broward Mayor Beam Furr told CNN that Cruz was a client at a mental health clinic and had been “dealing with mental health issues.” He had been undergoing some treatment, Furr said, but he did not go into detail about that.

“I don’t know if he was exactly on law enforcement radar, but it wasn’t like there wasn’t concerns for him. He had not been back to the clinic for over a year. So there’s been a time he was receiving treatment and then stopped,” Furr said.

CNN is reporting that Cruz bought the AR-15 rifle used in the shooting himself and passed a background check. At a press conference, Sheriff Israel said he thinks people undergoing treatment for mental illness should not be able to purchase or carry handguns.
https://heavy.com/news/2018/02/nicolas-nikolas-nick-cruz-florida-school-shooter-gunman-instagram/

 

[CARIIS]

Could she be more obvious? Gross. :-/

That. is. disgusting.

If accurate

 

[MaryG12]

there were like 5 in fl the day after

Yes, and four in Manatee County since last Wednesday.

Teen charged with felony for threat against Braden River Middle School

They should all be made an example of.

This is what my tax dollars go for??

These little punks should be hitting the books, not bringing guns to school. Felony record at the age of 14? Where I come from, that's called a cancer curer. Won't amount to much in life.

 

[flourish]

An adoptive parent never knows what they are "getting". Bio parents have much more information about teratogens they have exposed their fetus to but that is not always the whole story. In this day and age the kinds of environmental contagions are not yet known how they impact a fetus. If we look at Agent Orange use in Vietnam, we can see that 4 generations later children continue to be born with physical/brain malformations.

At the end of the day, bio or adoptive children can have all kinds of anomalies that can become mental illness, cancers, diabetes -type I, etc. Illness happens. Children have accidents-- multiple concussions, etc. Accidents happen.

I've encountered a strange, to me, phenomenon. It may be influenced by the local culture, but there are many families who adopt many children then, unfortunately, they aren't actually able to care for them all and/or their various special needs (many known prior to adoption.. to some degree) then they end up placing one or more in facilities. I'm very torn about it, as they were adopted out of horrific circumstances but it makes me sad that their "forever parents" end up sending them elsewhere.

Ugh sometimes it's all so overwhelmingly depressing.

 

[CARIIS]

[FONT=&quot]In January 2017, the family sold their home and moved to a rented property in a gated community nearby – the same house given by Cruz as his address to police following his arrest on Wednesday.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]When Lynda died aged 68 on November 1, 2017, both boys moved in with Deschamps who had previously lived next door and ‘loved Lynda to death’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]‘I was there with Roxy when it happened,’ Bennett, who works at a hardware store in Loxahatchee, told DailyMail.com. ‘Those boys were in the room when their mother passed.’

Cruz, he says, appeared odd from the start while younger brother Zachary is a ‘smart kid’ who adores video games and socializing.

‘She had known them since they were young. Lynda was like family to her – she loved her to death.’

He wanted to have a gun and she did not want it in the house so she gave him the ultimatum that if you want to keep the gun, you cannot live here,’ Bennett said.

Bennett claims the only reason Zachary is being investigated is due to spurious allegations about him to police that the 17-year-old would ‘finish what his older brother started’.

Bennett claims the only reason Zachary is being investigated is due to spurious allegations about him to police that the 17-year-old would ‘finish what his older brother started’.[/FONT]

 

[Alleykins]

[FONT=&amp]Bennett claims the only reason Zachary is being investigated is due to spurious allegations about him to police that the 17-year-old would ‘finish what his older brother started’.[/FONT]

Who's making these spurious allegations? Is he being witch hunted now (I know it's not a real thing, but I don't know how else to put it).

 

[neesaki]

Why is there so much speculation about him having fetal alcohol syndrome? Is it not just as likely or even more so, that his parents were drug addicts, such as methamphetamines, crack cocaine, heroin, etc. Just curious.

 

[CARIIS]

I think this was a big part of the problem with NC. Although they can't say what exactly his mental health issues were. Whether he had FAS? i haven't seen that verified yet?
(quote)
Broward Mayor Beam Furr told CNN that Cruz was a client at a mental health clinic and had been “dealing with mental health issues.” He had been undergoing some treatment, Furr said, but he did not go into detail about that.

“I don’t know if he was exactly on law enforcement radar, but it wasn’t like there wasn’t concerns for him. He had not been back to the clinic for over a year. So there’s been a time he was receiving treatment and then stopped,” Furr said.

CNN is reporting that Cruz bought the AR-15 rifle used in the shooting himself and passed a background check. At a press conference, Sheriff Israel said he thinks people undergoing treatment for mental illness should not be able to purchase or carry handguns.
https://heavy.com/news/2018/02/nicolas-nikolas-nick-cruz-florida-school-shooter-gunman-instagram/

I am always somewhat surprised at the hesitancy to accept this child wa severally mentally ill.

To get placed in a behavioral academic setting says more than most can imagine.

Seats are rare-- criteria for admission are this child at the time.

It is very complicated hard to get a space, chances are he was in the cue for placement for god knows how long.

I would guess the school had wanted him out of mainstream for ages but had nowhere to put him.

He IMO was a very ill child and man .

I respectfully don't understand the doubt.

For decades school systems had problems he was connected to community mental health - which - for a system with money is more related to kinda forced as opposed to an affluent mom wanting her child to see a therapist .

DCF was involved. Le was involved. On scene crisis units were on scene on more than one occurrence.

His primary therapist at Henderson did not agree with DCF closing the case.

If we get the real files I bet we will find endless DCF worker changes

DCF has been blabbing about case file released -- if this is it -- that is not a case file .

Two sentences is not a case file.

Has anyone found like a PDF from DCF report reports?

I was surprised DCF supposedly wanted this.

Its pretty rare for DCF to want case out in newspapers when a person they were supposed to protect goes and shoots at 34 other kids.

So now I am kinda wondering if it is hot air - pretend transparency.

They were involved for at least a couple of months at least. Two sentences is not a DCF case file with this acuity level.

They would know about LE contacts. They would know academic history.

I have not found anything that resembles a a DCF case file on a case like this.

They talk to teachers neighbors friends the brother cops schools etc etc -- closing a case with this acuity is high risk

and they are in a heap of trouble -- especially if it was closed only after two months with all the stuff just we know - they know more -- you don't close cases like that .

Heads shall be departing moo

 

[kaen]

I've encountered a strange, to me, phenomenon. It may be influenced by the local culture, but there are many families who adopt many children then, unfortunately, they aren't actually able to care for them all and/or their various special needs (many known prior to adoption.. to some degree) then they end up placing one or more in facilities. I'm very torn about it, as they were adopted out of horrific circumstances but it makes me sad that their "forever parents" end up sending them elsewhere.

Ugh sometimes it's all so overwhelmingly depressing.

I have seen the same phenomenon. it is often a culture based in religious groups. The adoptions are on the rise in countries that are particularly cruel to children once they become the age for non-adoptive options. For many people, the idea of killing or neglecting disabled children is seen to be akin to abortion. Many of these families raise money for their adoptive costs. They go into the adoption with the idea that all you need is love and some services to change the course of the lives of these kids. Truth is that many kids (especially those who are older) have needs that go way beyond what any orphanage has declared. I am not a fan of people going to a foreign nation and adopting more than one child at a times, especially if the child has special needs.

I have a wonderful friend who has a child with a disability. She adopted a child from abroad with the same disability b/c she understood what was needed. She did wonderful work and helped this child blossom. But, the case is not the same for many I know who adopted more than one child or severely disabled children. It is hard work, requiring a lifetime of commitment and people must be aware that if they re-home and null their adoption it is very hard on these children in general. For some children, it makes a difference between being able to fold into a home and never attaching.

 

[CARIIS]

Who's making these spurious allegations? Is he being witch hunted now (I know it's not a real thing, but I don't know how else to put it).

It is confusing isnt it/ But with slow stuff coming out Zachary has not really emerged thus far in any reports.

Like when LE was there younger sibling was agitated and threatening (whatever) wondering if he like mom was a victim as well. moo

We have not heard peers saying anything like his younger brother was odd etc etc

they were only two years apart and he was held back so it seems like they might have actually been in same physical locations for some time

but the private school stuff came out but then it dies -- no names of these entities?? or year of attendance

or what type of private schools they were -- troubled youth private pay??

I posted it in first thread (cant remember name ) but the special placement that was named was public and part of broward county special needs program

 

[Karinna]

I am always somewhat surprised at the hesitancy to accept this child wa severally mentally ill.

To get placed in a behavioral academic setting says more than most can imagine.

Seats are rare-- criteria for admission are this child at the time.

It is very complicated hard to get a space, chances are he was in the cue for placement for god knows how long.

I would guess the school had wanted him out of mainstream for ages but had nowhere to put him.

He IMO was a very ill child and man .

I respectfully don't understand the doubt.

For decades school systems had problems he was connected to community mental health - which - for a system with money is more related to kinda forced as opposed to an affluent mom wanting her child to see a therapist .

DCF was involved. Le was involved. On scene crisis units were on scene on more than one occurrence.

His primary therapist at Henderson did not agree with DCF closing the case.

If we get the real files I bet we will find endless DCF worker changes

DCF has been blabbing about case file released -- if this is it -- that is not a case file .

Two sentences is not a case file.

Has anyone found like a PDF from DCF report reports?

I was surprised DCF supposedly wanted this.

Its pretty rare for DCF to want case out in newspapers when a person they were supposed to protect goes and shoots at 34 other kids.

So now I am kinda wondering if it is hot air - pretend transparency.

They were involved for at least a couple of months at least. Two sentences is not a DCF case file with this acuity level.

They would know about LE contacts. They would know academic history.

I have not found anything that resembles a a DCF case file on a case like this.

They talk to teachers neighbors friends the brother cops schools etc etc -- closing a case with this acuity is high risk

and they are in a heap of trouble -- especially if it was closed only after two months with all the stuff just we know - they know more -- you don't close cases like that .

Heads shall be departing moo

Good points CARIIS. Maybe he was just another kid that fell through the cracks in the system?

 

[Gooddeeds]

"How many guns did he have?" Blackstone asked.

"I'm not sure. Five or six," James said.

"He was coming into your house and you didn't know how many guns he had?" Blackstone asked.

"So you wanted him to have a gun safe, ***BUT YOU DIDNT KNOW***how many guns or ***what kind of guns***they were that he would be putting in the safe?" Blackstone said.

***I KNEW he had hunting rifles***" James responded.

"You thought they were just hunting rifles?" Blackstone asked.

***"I KNEW HE HAD AN “ASSAULT” RIFLE***but I knew he used it out hunting," James said.

Snipped from:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/school...snead-host-family-speaks/?ftag=CNM-00-10aac3a

‘Says didn’t know-says he knew he had hunting rifles and an assault rifle. And he used the assault rifle for hunting...why didn’t he use the hunting rifle for hunting? That is sort of a clue...

 

[kaen]

Good points CARIIS. Maybe he was just another kid that fell through the cracks in the system?

I do wonder how good his evaluations were. In the private sector, a thorough evaluation is approx. 5k to 6k in my area. Lots of tests and drilling down on any level that appears to be indicated. My home district (a good district) has scaled back their evaluations based on NCLB and all of its iterations. I have had students who were dx'ed with ADHD and Autism by the schools and county mental health who were then given a "private" more thorough look and things like anxiety disorders, ODD and other disorders are identified. I am not sure that we know the full diagnosis of NC yet. I am sure his lawyers will help him to get the best evaluation possible to really highlight how the systems had failed him.

Don't get me wrong. I see him as responsible and accountable but I also think the full picture deserves to illuminated.