FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #3 *Arrest*

[CARIIS]

I've encountered a strange, to me, phenomenon. It may be influenced by the local culture, but there are many families who adopt many children then, unfortunately, they aren't actually able to care for them all and/or their various special needs (many known prior to adoption.. to some degree) then they end up placing one or more in facilities. I'm very torn about it, as they were adopted out of horrific circumstances but it makes me sad that their "forever parents" end up sending them elsewhere.

Ugh sometimes it's all so overwhelmingly depressing.

Do not get me going on foster care.

Dont do it

They can return them

The amount of sexual abuse in foster care

dont get me going

it may be different now

but it was horrid

they take em to get the monthly stipend

it was like take a couple of classes pick up two totally abused kids that are worth 900 a month ugh

were there wonderful foster parents yes

the majority were money and were not OKL lto have kids \

much less troubled kids with issues

I will stop now

furry four paw levity break now warranted

the technique each has their own technique

what a hoot

fuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDOM-U7uStM

 

[mpnola]

I've notice a few things we've been told about Nikolas Cruz is behavior common with kids that have autism. I can't think of many examples but the stories about him smacking his head and being really obsessive and only talking about guns/military remind me of autism. Oh, and he jumped off the back of a bus because a peer told him to. (Easily influenced, trying to fit in, like you said.) I'm sure you can provide more solid info and confirm if this reminds you too, if you don't mind, since you worked in mental health. Thanks!

Here's the quote from this article: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article200754714.html

“He would bang his head with his hands, and often lose control over minor things, like loud sounds,” Gold recalled.

I agree! I thought the exact same thing after I read that information.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[jjenny]

An adoptive parent never knows what they are "getting". Bio parents have much more information about teratogens they have exposed their fetus to but that is not always the whole story. In this day and age the kinds of environmental contagions are not yet known how they impact a fetus. If we look at Agent Orange use in Vietnam, we can see that 4 generations later children continue to be born with physical/brain malformations.

At the end of the day, bio or adoptive children can have all kinds of anomalies that can become mental illness, cancers, diabetes -type I, etc. Illness happens. Children have accidents-- multiple concussions, etc. Accidents happen.

Very true. People who are adopting should realize they could be adopting a child with all kinds of issues. Especially if bioparents were using alcohol, drugs, or have mental conditions.

 

[jjenny]

Who's making these spurious allegations? Is he being witch hunted now (I know it's not a real thing, but I don't know how else to put it).

I don't know who is making the allegations, but considering what happens with NC, I rather they be investigated fully than assuming they are spurious.

 

[rabidstoat]

I cannot begin to imagine the emotional trauma for any of these students and teachers returning to the building where they saw friends murdered, nor the ones who heard but did not see.

I just re-read Dave Cullens' (think that's the name) book on Columbine.

It talked about how the area had open school choice, so students who had been at Columbine could choose to go to a different school. Apparently, relatively few decided to go somewhere else, and their student population was even larger the year after Columbine.

Instead of destroying the whole school they sealed off the library and built a new one, and did renovations of other areas that were spots of trauma. They also consulted with psychologists and others on how to start the next school year, which was the first one where students returned, and planned the 'opening day' activities around recommendations given.

 

[GutInstinct]

I am always somewhat surprised at the hesitancy to accept this child wa severally mentally ill.

To get placed in a behavioral academic setting says more than most can imagine.

Seats are rare-- criteria for admission are this child at the time.

It is very complicated hard to get a space, chances are he was in the cue for placement for god knows how long.

I would guess the school had wanted him out of mainstream for ages but had nowhere to put him.

He IMO was a very ill child and man .

I respectfully don't understand the doubt.

For decades school systems had problems he was connected to community mental health - which - for a system with money is more related to kinda forced as opposed to an affluent mom wanting her child to see a therapist .

DCF was involved. Le was involved. On scene crisis units were on scene on more than one occurrence.

His primary therapist at Henderson did not agree with DCF closing the case.

If we get the real files I bet we will find endless DCF worker changes

DCF has been blabbing about case file released -- if this is it -- that is not a case file .

Two sentences is not a case file.

Has anyone found like a PDF from DCF report reports?

I was surprised DCF supposedly wanted this.

Its pretty rare for DCF to want case out in newspapers when a person they were supposed to protect goes and shoots at 34 other kids.

So now I am kinda wondering if it is hot air - pretend transparency.

They were involved for at least a couple of months at least. Two sentences is not a DCF case file with this acuity level.

They would know about LE contacts. They would know academic history.

I have not found anything that resembles a a DCF case file on a case like this.

They talk to teachers neighbors friends the brother cops schools etc etc -- closing a case with this acuity is high risk

and they are in a heap of trouble -- especially if it was closed only after two months with all the stuff just we know - they know more -- you don't close cases like that .

Heads shall be departing moo

Thank you, CARIIS, I was waiting for your input on this one. As someone who professionally understands mental health, as does CARIIS, IMO, many many of the most horrific cases stem from untreated, serious mental illness. But I've all but given up on explaining it to those who have been fortunate to have lived a life without being affected by the devastation of mental illness in some way.

All I do know is that mental illness is on the rise; typically begins to manifest itself at age 17-18 and escalates, typically' around the ages of 20-21. And until our government and society treat and take mental illness as seriously as we do cancer, the tortured souls who live every minute of their lives in emotional hell without help, who scream out for help by cutting themselves and more...who post their dark forbidden reality for the world to see...but no one cares, or they don't want to know, or they just label them crazy, they turn their head.

These are human beings who have diseases of the brain. They don't get fundraisers, or ribbons, or sympathy or compassion. Rather they are shunned, outcast, and further ostracized from reality. Eventually, many take their own lives. For others, their inner rage manifests into psychosis...and acts of violence that are incomprehensible to those who are ignorant about mental illness.

And I'm not talking about just depression, anxiety, OCD, etc. The severely mentally ill, left untreated...suffer the deepest pain in the their soul; a pain that never stops, a voice that plays over and over and over again....but most end up suffering in silence until the pain becomes intolerable. Off my soapbox because I don't see anything changing about the stigma and ignorance and denial of our mental health crisis...not in my lifetime.

 

[Gooddeeds]

Do not get me going on foster care.

Dont do it

They can return them

The amount of sexual abuse in foster care

dont get me going

it may be different now

but it was horrid

they take em to get the monthly stipend

it was like take a couple of classes pick up two totally abused kids that are worth 900 a month ugh

were there wonderful foster parents yes

the majority were money and were not OKL lto have kids \

much less troubled kids with issues

I will stop now

furry four paw levity break now warranted

the technique each has their own technique

what a hoot

fuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDOM-U7uStM

Agree CARIIS, the foster care system is messy and many fostered are abused then returned like an item at a department store.

Snipped from: https://nypost.com/2018/02/20/woman-who-took-in-florida-shooter-wants-control-of-his-inheritance/

“Deschamps filed the petition on the grounds she is “caring for a 50 percent minor beneficiary” — Zachary — according to court papers.

But the source said Deschamps was the one who had Zachary involuntarily committed on Friday. The state cannot hold minors for observation more than 12 hours unless there is a medical reason. It is unclear if he has been released.

Deschamps had six months from Lynda’s Nov. 1 death to file the petition, and her attorney Audra Simovitz called the decision to file the day after the slaughter “appropriate.”

This is a single mom in a mobile home with a toddler. Her boyfriend ‘Gold’ moved out some time ago.

 

[kaen]

I don't know who is making the allegations, but considering what happens with NC, I rather they be investigated fully than assuming they are spurious.

We don't know the mental health level of NC's brother. WE do know he grew up in a chaotic home based on his brother's behavior and his mother's struggle with him. He suffered a great loss with his father's death when he was young. He had a loss of sense of self by not finding out about his adoption until he was older. His mother was isolated--- few friends, no job. She was frugal and didn't want to spend money on healthcare which gives you a sense that there could be concerns about money, possibly control, and stability. He grew up in a school system with peers who had a lot. We have no idea how much energy mom had for parenting in general and parenting young men, in particular. The neighbor who knew the family had a soft spot for the boys. His one "support" from his close family is gone (mom dies) and his last support (his brother) moves out soon after moving to the mom's friends.

Then, we have this catastrophic day where his brother kills many people. Imagine he is your last relative. The police round you up and want to know everything you know about the person you care about. Then, your guardian files paperwork to handle your mom's estate. Then, has you Baker Acted within days of your18th birthday.

I agree with investigating. However, this young man does not appear guilty of anything except living within this family.

 

[CARIIS]

As a mother of a high schooler, i just
can't express my pride adequately. 1000 strong, independent thinkers! There is hope for the world.[/QUO

It is just that nov is so far away. Tall voted down gun stuff TODAY while the buses were rolling.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/20/us/gun-control-florida-shooting.html

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Very true. People who are adopting should realize they could be adopting a child with all kinds of issues. Especially if bioparents were using alcohol, drugs, or have mental conditions.

And the people that are considering adopting should really know thyself and be reflective. It takes more than just love and good intentions. It takes more than a pretty house with a white picket fence.

 

[GutInstinct]

And there is no cure for any mental illness. Only the symptoms can be managed thru medication; the feelings expressed and acknowledged thru therapy. But mental illness is a lifelong curse, a living hell, and a daily struggle for those who suffer,

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Speaking of adoptions, does anyone here remember a case a few years back when a woman adopted a seemingly sensory-deprived Russian child and then....(drumroll) she insisted on sending him back on a plane to Russia!!!

If memory serves me right, Russia stopped all adoptions to the US for a while because of it.

Anyone remember this?

 

[flourish]

Do not get me going on foster care.

Dont do it

They can return them

The amount of sexual abuse in foster care

dont get me going

it may be different now

but it was horrid

they take em to get the monthly stipend

it was like take a couple of classes pick up two totally abused kids that are worth 900 a month ugh

were there wonderful foster parents yes

the majority were money and were not OKL lto have kids \

much less troubled kids with issues

I will stop now

furry four paw levity break now warranted

the technique each has their own technique

what a hoot

fuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDOM-U7uStM

The families I was referring to are adoptive families outside the US foster system...more often foreign adoptions, but locally there is a dominant church which also does "social services" including adopting babies into good indoctrination groups, I mean families wink wink.

But your point stands strong, yes.

 

[Alleykins]

Speaking of adoptions, does anyone here remember a case a few years back when a woman adopted a seemingly sensory-deprived Russian child and then....(drumroll) she insisted on sending him back on a plane to Russia!!!

If memory serves me right, Russia stopped all adoptions to the US for a while because of it.

Anyone remember this?

OT: I think this is the case you're referring to.

But Hansen said after the call she believed the matter was settled and the boy was safe, until she also got a call from the U.S. Embassy. They told her she had set off an "international incident."
The U.S. State Department spokesman on Friday said it was up to the Russian government to decide whether it will suspend adoptions by Americans because of the incident.

 

[CARIIS]

I do wonder how good his evaluations were. In the private sector, a thorough evaluation is approx. 5k to 6k in my area. Lots of tests and drilling down on any level that appears to be indicated. My home district (a good district) has scaled back their evaluations based on NCLB and all of its iterations. I have had students who were dx'ed with ADHD and Autism by the schools and county mental health who were then given a "private" more thorough look and things like anxiety disorders, ODD and other disorders are identified. I am not sure that we know the full diagnosis of NC yet. I am sure his lawyers will help him to get the best evaluation possible to really highlight how the systems had failed him.

Don't get me wrong. I see him as responsible and accountable but I also think the full picture deserves to illuminated.

community mental health - well community mental health - swamped huge turnover ( translation kids that have had a horrible history of bonding , total disarray, come get in, get attached to a therapist , turn over, new therapist, feels like abandonment agai, the parent has to start all over with a new therapist, often transportation problems , resulting in erratic visits , folks who write RX see each child about 7 minutes writes a RX

next community mental health is primary medicaid population

it not like the movies !!!!

Its so hard for little people with problems. They go to school. They notice peers are getting through assignments , answering questions correctly. THey try

They just cant do it. Peers are mean. They start to be called names. Frustration builds.

There called stupid. Adult interaction with them is negative . Your bad. They are little people they absorb all this negative energy.

They fall behind. School becomes dread.

They start behaviorally acting out. That gets more negative attn - from everywhere.

Goes on and on. They give up trying\\They fall further behind

THey get held back Kids tease them about that

If by that point they get meds (often wrong) ADHD was huge at around his age back then.

Ritalin is incredible for kids that ARE ADHD.

It is speed for kids when it is misdiagnosed.

Is it sold on the street as speed.

They get teased for having to take crazy people meds

He was not ADHD IMO! ADHD does not blossom into autism. They are completely different things. Moo

Autism has a lot of repetitive behaviors that can be confused for frigidity. Hyperactivity.

Obviously I am in no position to diagnosis him. I did a lot of work with kids.

Very few autistic children are ADHD as well.

they are like incompatible! A C battery is never a D battery!

It can mimic ADHD as onset gets worse.

But this was 20 years ago -- a lot less was known back then.

Sad all the way around .............

I dread the day a school or a prank pulls afire alarm in a school setting -- gonna be a mess .

But then I wonder really how many school students across the nation are really following the news -- but then I think maybe with SM maybe

Gosh a school that has a real fire what a mess that might be jeezzzzzzzz

what a mess

I still wish they would kill fire alarms for a couple of months ! Like turn the system
off .

Sorry going back to my kids in the classroom is bringing back a flood of memories!

Rambling event arriving:

Hey I was a teachers nightmare -- always making the class laugh.

I loved fire drills -- exciting !! Less math or spelling !! Yeh!! Liked reading and arts and crafts

ha! Science could be cool. History well in my mind at that time history ought to be kept history !!! Who cared what Jefferson did a thousand years ago !!!

I always intuitively knew I could never need in my life the ability to find the value of X.

The value of X was my enemy! Who cares about the value of X! How could anyone care about the value of X! Teachers that tought about finding the value of X were sure excited about finding the value of X!

Teachers IMO that loved finding the value of X were not well -- those lovers of the mystery of X!

oppsss a dash tangential !!

I still hate the value of X!!

I before e but not after C but near R I did not care much about that either!!

Who cares if your using an adjective before or after an adverb -- that accidently came to me naturally -- why did I need to be able to label what they were --- I ask you?

Where in my future I pondered when told to memorize all the capitals of all the states.

Who how or why would I ever need to do that!!

I quitely knew that being able to add and subtract might have some merit down the road!!

Same with reading -- that seemed to make some sense to me!

But the dam $ value of X...............................................

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

OT: I think this is the case you're referring to.

Yes, thank you.
Allegedly, the adopted kid was violent and a blooming arsonist!

 

[jjenny]

Speaking of adoptions, does anyone here remember a case a few years back when a woman adopted a seemingly sensory-deprived Russian child and then....(drumroll) she insisted on sending him back on a plane to Russia!!!

If memory serves me right, Russia stopped all adoptions to the US for a while because of it.

Anyone remember this?

There was a number of reasons Russia stopped adoptions. One was the guy who forgot adopted child in the car. Child overheated and died. Adoptions weren't just stopped for while, there is no more adoptions from Russia to US at all.

 

[jjenny]

OT: I think this is the case you're referring to.

She send this child back to Russia alone on the plane. Even if the child had issues, that really is not the way to go.

 

[kaen]

Speaking of adoptions, does anyone here remember a case a few years back when a woman adopted a seemingly sensory-deprived Russian child and then....(drumroll) she insisted on sending him back on a plane to Russia!!!

If memory serves me right, Russia stopped all adoptions to the US for a while because of it.

Anyone remember this?

I remember this. And, there was a major blowback from Russia. Russia stopped the adoptions in response to sanctions --the reason they were meeting with Don, Jr before the transition of power.

From https://theweek.com/articles/469137/why-russia-considering-ban-adoptions

Why would Russia want to ban adoptions to the U.S.?
The proposed ban is widely regarded as a direct response to the United States' Magnitsky Act, which imposes bans and asset freezes on Russian officials who are suspected to have been involved in human-rights violations. Many in the Russian government have denounced the Magnitsky Act as overreaching and hypocritical, and the adoption ban is just the latest in a series of retaliatory steps over the past few months intended to reduce U.S. influence in Russia.

 

[jjenny]

...

I agree with investigating. However, this young man does not appear guilty of anything except living within this family.

Again, we don't know all the info. But regardless, I am glad they are actually investigating here, unlike NC, where nothing was done, despite numerous police visits to home, and students complaining about threats NC was making against them.