FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain

[Reader]

Am watching a story on CNN right now about this. The newsreporter said that he talked with the Police Captain abojut the 911 calls, and the captain said that the 911 tape 'seemed to back up Zimmerman's story that he felt threatened.' Apparently there is a loud verbal exchange between them before the shot is fired.

But did the boy ever touch him?

How could this big guy actually feel threatened by this boy for just arguing with him, even if loudly?

So, if you follow and harrass someone who looks out of place to you without cause (except race) and they challenge you for it and argue with you, you can kill them?

 

[JeannaT]

But did the boy ever touch him?

How could this big guy actually feel threatened by this boy for just arguing with him, even if loudly?

So, if you follow and harrass someone who looks out of place to you without cause (except race) and they challenge you for it and argue with you, you can kill them?

GZ had blood coming out of his nose and from the back of his head. Time will tell what the extend of his injuries were.

It's not clear that Trayvon had any injuries at all until the gunshot wound.

 

[jjenny]

I'm just going to go ahead and say that if Tray had been a blonde girl, we would be applauding her for how hard she fought against the creepy guy following her in the neighborhood.

I am not sure what being blonde has to do with anything. Otherwise, I agree-if this boy was a female I doubt GZ would be getting away with "self-defense" argument.

 

[daisy7]

So, if they are gonna hand the case to the SA tomorrow, does that mean the investigation will be completed and they will release the 911 calls?

 

[MicciStella]

I am still wondering why so many details are hold back... No one wants to say what injuries Trayvon had beside the gun shot .... Almost like LE is trying to hide something.... And I am surprised how fast the funeral was... I would have thought it will take a while... And last but not least a wild guess idea, and only my opinion, but what about self inflicted injuries from GZ's side to make it look like self defense .. . He wouldn't be the first one to do so....

Micci

 

[BuzzieCat]

I am kind of concerned about the idea of GZ working in a law enforcement capacity. At the very least, it kind of sounds like he tried to be a "hero" ("save" the neighborhood from this 17 YO) instead of just waiting for the police to arrive. I worry that even if he didn't mean any harm, his judgment is not so hot. What will he do if he becomes a full-fledged officer of the law?

 

[JeannaT]

I am still wondering why so many details are hold back... No one wants to say what injuries Trayvon had beside the gun shot .... Almost like LE is trying to hide something.... And I am surprised how fast the funeral was... I would have thought it will take a while... And last but not least a wild guess idea, and only my opinion, but what about self inflicted injuries from GZ's side to make it look like self defense .. . He wouldn't be the first one to do so....

Micci

I agree that way too much - on both sides - is being kept secret.

We don't know much about GZ at all, and his pic is 6 years old. I don't think ANYONE looks the same from 22 to 28, it's a mystery what he looked like the night of the event. I do think it's much more likely he looked even fatter and more out of shape than he did at 22.

Also, the family of Trayvon is hiding when they release pics of him as a child and not what he must have looked like the night of the event. That football pic - wearing the Bulldogs shirt - was from middle school. He was pre-puberty at that point. Why release pictures that are NOT what someone would have looked like at the time, when the claim is he looked suspicious? Of course that innocent little middle schooler doesn't look suspicious, but that's not what Trayvon looked like. If all the facts came to light, I refuse to believe this young man (in Texas, 17 year olds are adults, although not in his state) was a pacifist. Judging from the fact that he was suspended from school at the time and his family refuses to disclose why (if it were excessive tardies or carving his name in a desk, it seems they would have been quick to reveal that) he was suspended at the time.

I get sick to my stomach when I read of the frequent cases of nutcase men killing young people for stepping on their property, while the victims are trying to escape any encounter. I don't believe this is the case here. At all. I think it's quite possible during the scuffle that followed a verbal altercation, GZ had real reason to fear for his life.

This is COMPLICATED, and the public isn't being helped by keeping all these questions in secret. To diffuse this, the public needs to know: Who is GZ? Who is Trayvon? Release the 911 calls in their entirety and any evidence they have that this was in self-defense, including conditions of GZ and Trayvon, and any witness statements.

 

[jjenny]

Well if we want to know about GZ:

"George Zimmerman has not been charged in the Feb. 26 shooting of Trayvon Martin, 17, who was walking home from a convenience store in Sanford, Fla., near Orlando. Zimmerman, who patrolled the Retreat at Twin Lakes development in his own car, had been called aggressive in earlier complaints to the local police and the homeowner's association, according to a homeowner who spoke on the condition of anonymity."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html?ref=mostpopular

 

[jjenny]

I am kind of concerned about the idea of GZ working in a law enforcement capacity. At the very least, it kind of sounds like he tried to be a "hero" ("save" the neighborhood from this 17 YO) instead of just waiting for the police to arrive. I worry that even if he didn't mean any harm, his judgment is not so hot. What will he do if he becomes a full-fledged officer of the law?

I don't think he will be working in any LE capacity if they charge him. Even if only two people know what exactly happened, and one of those two is dead, that is pretty much true for many cases where victim is dead. They got his 911 call as evidence to set up his state of mind and what his instructions were from 911 operator. He can argue self-defense at trial.

 

[JeannaT]

jjenny I completely understand what you're saying, but I think this becomes more confusing all the time.

Neither of these men are passifists. Each is looking for a fight, from what I can tell from the information available. It was a tragedy that they met each other.

Statistically - it also seems unlikely that Trayvon would have survived to middle age.

 

[MicciStella]

Well if we want to know about GZ:

"George Zimmerman has not been charged in the Feb. 26 shooting of Trayvon Martin, 17, who was walking home from a convenience store in Sanford, Fla., near Orlando. Zimmerman, who patrolled the Retreat at Twin Lakes development in his own car, had been called aggressive in earlier complaints to the local police and the homeowner's association, according to a homeowner who spoke on the condition of anonymity."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html?ref=mostpopular

Oh my... This is going to boil... Apparently they were not happy with GZ in the community... One standing up against him is leaded out (what I personally think stinks)... Someone else says she doesnt know about complaints.... But when you read the article it is pretty obvious that pretty much everyone is scared of GZ and I am sure not only since this sad happening... They can't even find or get hold of GZ right now.... In my opinion this guy is guilty and has something to hide ..... Otherwise why his hideout....

Micci

 

[Reader]

GZ had blood coming out of his nose and from the back of his head. Time will tell what the extend of his injuries were.

It's not clear that Trayvon had any injuries at all until the gunshot wound.

I've read most of the articles and have not seen this information about GZ's injuries before...is there another link with this? TIA

However, from what I have read, it seems that GZ was told in the 911 call to not approach the person and wait for the LE to arrive. Then, he went ahead and got out of his vehicle and approached the boy and some kind of argument, fight occurred.

To me, that makes him the aggressor...maybe the boy just pushed him away and he fell on the sidewalk and hit his head...who knows..but he started it and it was unnecessary and against LE advice.

I just read that the case has been sent to the SA now. Also says GZ has gotten death threats:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/12/2690445/sanford-chief-no-charges-yet-in.html

 

[MicciStella]

I agree that way too much - on both sides - is being kept secret.

We don't know much about GZ at all, and his pic is 6 years old. I don't think ANYONE looks the same from 22 to 28, it's a mystery what he looked like the night of the event. I do think it's much more likely he looked even fatter and more out of shape than he did at 22..

I agree JeannaT but I doubt it very very much that GZ's brutal expression and eyes much will have changed...

Good night everyone for today

Micci

 

[BuzzieCat]

I don't think he will be working in any LE capacity if they charge him. Even if only two people know what exactly happened, and one of those two is dead, that is pretty much true for many cases where victim is dead. They got his 911 call as evidence to set up his state of mind and what his instructions were from 911 operator. He can argue self-defense at trial.

I just wonder if he will be charged. If not, he will be free to do whatever he likes, I assume. Maybe Tray had a terrible temper and it really was self defense, but GZ shouldn't have confronted him in the first place, unless there's some mitigating circumstance that hasn't been released.

 

[angelmom]

I am kind of concerned about the idea of GZ working in a law enforcement capacity. At the very least, it kind of sounds like he tried to be a "hero" ("save" the neighborhood from this 17 YO) instead of just waiting for the police to arrive. I worry that even if he didn't mean any harm, his judgment is not so hot. What will he do if he becomes a full-fledged officer of the law?

Well if we want to know about GZ:

"George Zimmerman has not been charged in the Feb. 26 shooting of Trayvon Martin, 17, who was walking home from a convenience store in Sanford, Fla., near Orlando. Zimmerman, who patrolled the Retreat at Twin Lakes development in his own car, had been called aggressive in earlier complaints to the local police and the homeowner's association, according to a homeowner who spoke on the condition of anonymity."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html?ref=mostpopular

This brings to mind the cop-wanna-bees who are so dangerous. Makes me wonder if he's already been turned down when applying for an LE position.

Frankly, the comments about Tray being dangerous or a are unfounded. We have seen NOTHING to indicate that Tray did anything but walk down the street. I'll believe what's on the 911 call when I hear it, and until then I'm chalking GZ's injuries up to what he deserved when he confronted Tray against the advice of the 911 operator.

If he had stayed in his car like they told him, everyone would still be alive right now.

 

[Rob774]

jjenny I completely understand what you're saying, but I think this becomes more confusing all the time.

Neither of these men are passifists. Each is looking for a fight, from what I can tell from the information available. It was a tragedy that they met each other.

Statistically - it also seems unlikely that Trayvon would have survived to middle age.

I'm sorry, i hate to be "that guy" but i can't see how you can say anything mentioined above... about the victim, without knowing anything about him. All we know right now, is that he was armed with a bag of Skittles and Ice Tea. If that warrants death, then there will be a lot of dead kids out there. Statistically? Well you can use statistics to bend an argument anywhere you want to. If you were GZ's defense lawyer, would that be you stance? "Well basically my client just carried out what would have eventually happened to the victim anyway, so in essense, we are saving Tray's family money from having to support him further." Also above you mentioned why Tray's family hasn't released any photos of him of the night of the shooting, i don't know about you, but at 17, my family didn't take daily snapshots of me. Yes, there are pictures of him in his middle school aged, Wolverines uniform, but there are current pictures of him in his Bulldogs uniform.

Plus even if he was wearing a black hoodie, with army boots on, and shades, he still appeared to be doing nothing that warranted him to being bothered by GZ. LIke i said before, Tray is dead right now, squarely on the basis that GZ went out of his way to confront him, i fail to see in this country how you can confront someone, and then fall back on "self defense." Mark my words, despite Florida's "stand your ground law" when this is all over... 1st degree murder.

 

[SoBeCzar]

I found the picture that they ran on the website in another article. It's a mugshot from his earlier arrest when he was about 22. He looks older to me than that, but guess not.

http://opnateye.com/?p=319

I found this at the end of that article:


Despite these charges, Zimmerman was working as a neighborhood watch “commander” apparently with permission to shoot and kill “suspicious” people. Sanford Police say they are not hiding the 911 tape, but say they cannot release it because it is part of an “ongoing investigation,” but also say the tape justifies the murder.
Never heard of anyone having permission to shoot and kill suspicious persons. This does not sound right.

 

[Rob774]

I found this at the end of that article:


Despite these charges, Zimmerman was working as a neighborhood watch “commander” apparently with permission to shoot and kill “suspicious” people. Sanford Police say they are not hiding the 911 tape, but say they cannot release it because it is part of an “ongoing investigation,” but also say the tape justifies the murder.
Never heard of anyone having permission to shoot and kill suspicious persons. This does not sound right.

Great find!!!

I'll have to see a copy of the bylaws of this property, before i take the words of this article as gospel. Because if this is the case, all the Twin Lakes place did is make themselves libel in the eventual civil suit.

 

[jjenny]

Permission to shoot suspicious people-that clearly is a sarcastic statement. Obviously he didn't have "permission to shoot and kill suspicious people."

 

[jjenny]

Great find!!!

I'll have to see a copy of the bylaws of this property, before i take the words of this article as gospel. Because if this is the case, all the Twin Lakes place did is make themselves libel in the eventual civil suit.

That was sarcasm (posted on a blog) not something from bylaws.