FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain

[angelmom]

I don't understand the disconnect here, with people who think Trayvon was shot because he looked suspicious.

Apparently 402 other people "looked suspicious" to GZ that year on his volunteer patrols, and they're all alive to tell about it. And so is GZ.

There was a witness, and injuries that corroborate GZ's self-defense. Why are so many still believing that Trayvon was shot because GZ found him suspicious looking? He was followed because GZ found him to be suspicious. What happened after that - depending on what evidence they have - sounds like very likely a case of self-defense.

Who corroborates it? No one except GZ claims that Tray attacked him. One witness saw a scuffle with Tray briefly on top, but that doesn't say who started it. Unless he can prove otherwise, I have to believe that the person who was running away was the victim and the person chasing with a gun was the aggressor.

 

[jjenny]

I don't understand the disconnect here, with people who think Trayvon was shot because he looked suspicious.

Apparently 402 other people "looked suspicious" to GZ that year on his volunteer patrols, and they're all alive to tell about it. And so is GZ.

There was a witness, and injuries that corroborate GZ's self-defense. Why are so many still believing that Trayvon was shot because GZ found him suspicious looking? He was followed because GZ found him to be suspicious. What happened after that - depending on what evidence they have - sounds like very likely a case of self-defense.

Well that is simply not true. GZ didn't call police 402 times about "suspicious" people. He called them for all kind of reasons, such as windows left open. And those 402 calls were not all from GZ either.

 

[angelmom]

I'm a bit done trying to express the other side here.

I do understand how those who want GZ arrested feel, and Trayvon's loss is a sad waste of a young man.

I just have the ability to see both sides. That someone who is physically assaulted can shoot even if prior to that they were being a bit of a Gladys Cravitz. They have the right to be free from physical assault.

Even if a dispatcher told them they aren't needed to follow the suspicious person. They can still do it if they want, and should expect to come away from that without a visit to the medic.

And someone should be able to walk down the street without being followed, chased down, and murdered with a gun, and should expect to come away from that without a trip to the morgue.

 

[octobermoon]

There is no evidence that TM was a troublemaker. But lots of evidence that George Z. had issues.

The boy was walking home and was harassed by a man with an attitude. A kid walking down the street was stalked and confronted by an older man with a gun.

 

[jjenny]

Who corroborates it? No one except GZ claims that Tray attacked him. One witness saw a scuffle with Tray briefly on top, but that doesn't say who started it. Unless he can prove otherwise, I have to believe that the person who was running away was the victim and the person chasing with a gun was the aggressor.

The witness who saw them fighting was the 13 year old boy, and he doesn't even know which one of them was screaming.

 

[Velouria]

--what does he think the victim should have differently? not gone to the store? not wore his hood up and walked slowly? not tried to defend himself?

bbM

Just maddening. :maddening: IMO JMO MOO[/quote]

Given the SPD's track record, I'd say he meant "not been black".

 

[Belinda]

This case simply astounds me. It is beyond the pale that GZ has not been arrested. That boy was murdered, plain and simple. There is nothing complicated about this case. A wanna be cop chased down and killed a young man who had every right to be where he was. Where is all the confusion? It just seems very simple to me.

 

[HiHater]

No it's not harassment, and I can do that if I want. So could you if you wanted. Harassment is much more severe than approaching someone in your own neighborhood, on private property, approved by the HOA, and asking them if they live in the neighborhood. They don't have to answer, but you have every right to legally encounter them and ask. (Not every day, the same person, or scream taunts at them or throw things at them. You have ever single right as a citizen on private property to approach someone and ask them what they're doing).

When my husband and I were in our early 20s we were building a house in our developing neighborhood, and we were much younger than the other builders. Much younger. So the people who were building the house next door came to the lot one evening as we were in the unfinished upstairs area (on our property) and pretty aggressively asked us if we had permission to be up there. I guess we could have physically attacked them for asking, but instead we said oh yes we're the owners, and introduced ourselves. AAAK awkward on their part.

They were probably the best neighbors we've ever had. Watchful, attentive, and loyal when they know you're not up to mischief. Look out if you are up to mischief. They've moved now after 25 years and I miss them. And yes, he packed heat and at least once pulled his gun on a neighborhood troublemaker.

There is nothing to even SUGGEST that George Zimmerman asked Tray anything, let alone politely.

If George Zimmerman had asked Trayvon any questions, I don't think it would have took 12 hours for is family to find out he was dead.

GZ could have said, "hey what are you doing, do you live around here?"

or "what's your name, I haven't seen you around here before?"

Instead, it looks as though GZ was too concerned with stopping Trayvon from getting away from the real police. He wasn't concerned about asking friendly questions.


ETA: Harassment doesn't have to be "severe." If you continue a behavior that someone wants you to stop, you are harassing them.

 

[Salem]

This case simply astounds me. It is beyond the pale that GZ has not been arrested. That boy was murdered, plain and simple. There is nothing complicated about this case. A wanna be cop chased down and killed a young man who had every right to be where he was. Where is all the confusion? It just seems very simple to me.

I agree with this 100000000%!

It is simple. GZ was over zealous and he acted without lawful authority, and in fact, after being told by lawful authority that he should stop following the teen.

There is no self-defense because GZ was the agressor when he followed Tray and got out of his car to continue following him.

The media and Tray's family need to continue to put the pressure on this LE department and hold them accountable.

Salem

 

[HiHater]

It's important for some people to know exactly why Trayvon was suspended...I'm surprised these same people are not asking

1. What does GZ do for work that allows him so much time to "patrol" the neighborhood?
2. Why has he studied criminal justice for 4 years, but not earned a degree? He's 28 years old, that's not exactly the "traditional" age of a college student?
3. Why were the charges in his first arrest dropped?
4. Who did he live with?
5. What do the other people he found suspicious have to say about his attitude in dealing with them?
6. Most importantly, when GZ was in high school, how many times was HE suspended?

 

[angelmom]

It's important for some people to know exactly why Trayvon was suspended...I'm surprised these same people are not asking

1. What does GZ do for work that allows him so much time to "patrol" the neighborhood?
2. Why has he studied criminal justice for 4 years, but not earned a degree? He's 28 years old, that's not exactly the "traditional" age of a college student?
3. Why were the charges in his first arrest dropped?
4. Who did he live with?
5. What do the other people he found suspicious have to say about his attitude in dealing with them?
6. Most importantly, when GZ was in high school, how many times was HE suspended?

:goodpost:

 

[ynotdivein]

There is nothing to even SUGGEST that George Zimmerman asked Tray anything, let alone politely.

<snip>

Respectfully snipped for focus.

Listening to the tape of GZ's call to the non-emergency line, GZ's phone did not pick up any verbal interactions between Tray and GZ.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/videogallery/68871920/News/George-Zimmerman-911-call-reporting-Trayvon-Martin

 

[SoBeCzar]

Hope this link was not already posted. Reporter say GZ called 911 46 times on New Years Day and was known to drive around the block over and over.

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/msnbc-tv/46775982/#46775982

 

[daisy7]

We now have finally heard the 911 calls. Now, I want to see the dash cams!

 

[gracielee]

Not to be an antagonist here, I don't know GZ, and I don't know how much of what's being reported about him is true or not. I thought, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought GZ *wasn't* in a criminal justice program, but instead a general education program?

I'd have to go back and relisten to the tape, but I thought the 911 operator said 'you don't need to follow him'.... IMO he didn't sound like he was forbidding him or ordering him not to follow. He simply said 'you don't need to follow him'. Again, I'd have to go back and relisten again if others heard it differently.

I'm one of those that appreciates my neighbors vigilance. My three little grandsons live next door to me. Though we live in an extremely rural location, I'm always reminded of Shawn Hornbeck. And I can still see Somer Thompson's mom pleading for neighbors to watch. Someone earlier posted the crime statistics for this neighborhood, they seemed awfully high, to me anyway. An event like this could just as easily gone the other way. There could have been a stranger up to no good in the neighborhood that night.

I'm simply attempting to post my thoughts on this topic, not rationalize what happened that night.

What it would take for me to 'get off the fence' is information as to GZ's injuries to his head, information as to autopsy results on TM. Something tangible to wrap my brain around. An answer as to who was calling for help, GZ or TM. I listened to all the 911 tapes. I didn't hear the warning shot some spoke of. I heard only one shot.

If GZ shot TM for no reason, he should be prosecuted. At first, after listening to the tapes, my emotions took over. But the more I tried to read about this event, the more confused I became with so many contradictions in what was being reported by various news sources. JMO

 

[rossva]

BBM

How do we know this? If Trayvon had a juvvie record, wouldn't it be sealed?

I'm curious why you refuse to believe GZ is incapable of having attacked TM? After all, GZ is the one who with an arrest record for assault on a police officer, not TM, who had no history of violence.

We really don't know how many times GZ actually followed those "suspicious looking individuals" on foot, only that he made numerous calls to report them. His remark to 911 that "these @$$4oles get away" could lead one to believe that GZ had become frustrated that police often arrived after the suspect had vanished. Perhaps GZ decided this was "the one that wouldn't get away."

 

[Adrienne37]

Not only did Zimmerman commit murder - in my opinion, he committed 1st degree murder thereby qualifying him for the death penalty. I am want him arrested and charged as such now. He doesn't deserve to walk the streets any longer. This was a tragedy waiting to happen.

 

[Adrienne37]

Not to be an antagonist here, I don't know GZ, and I don't know how much of what's being reported about him is true or not. I thought, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought GZ *wasn't* in a criminal justice program, but instead a general education program?

I'd have to go back and relisten to the tape, but I thought the 911 operator said 'you don't need to follow him'.... IMO he didn't sound like he was forbidding him or ordering him not to follow. He simply said 'you don't need to follow him'. Again, I'd have to go back and relisten again if others heard it differently.

I'm one of those that appreciates my neighbors vigilance. My three little grandsons live next door to me. Though we live in an extremely rural location, I'm always reminded of Shawn Hornbeck. And I can still see Somer Thompson's mom pleading for neighbors to watch. Someone earlier posted the crime statistics for this neighborhood, they seemed awfully high, to me anyway. An event like this could just as easily gone the other way. There could have been a stranger up to no good in the neighborhood that night.

I'm simply attempting to post my thoughts on this topic, not rationalize what happened that night.

What it would take for me to 'get off the fence' is information as to GZ's injuries to his head, information as to autopsy results on TM. Something tangible to wrap my brain around. An answer as to who was calling for help, GZ or TM. I listened to all the 911 tapes. I didn't hear the warning shot some spoke of. I heard only one shot.

If GZ shot TM for no reason, he should be prosecuted. At first, after listening to the tapes, my emotions took over. But the more I tried to read about this event, the more confused I became with so many contradictions in what was being reported by various news sources. JMO

There really are no contradictions in this case, it's pretty black and white. You have a grown man toting around a 9 mm semi-automatic weapon driving around the neighborhood as the "self-appointed" captain of the neighborhood watch program who has a history of calling 911 at least 40+ times since the beginning of the year. You have a 17-year-old little boy walking innocently home from the store with a pack of Skittles and iced tea. Said big bad neighborhood captain follows the child because he looks suspicious. He calls 911 once again who PLAINLY TOLD HIM NOT TO FOLLOW THE CHILD but he continues to do so anyway. Shots are fired, and the little boy is left lying dead in a pool of his own blood. No contradictions in that as far as I can see. George Zimmerman needs to be locked up and tried for 1st degree murder, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.


~jmo~

 

[octobermoon]

Not to be an antagonist here, I don't know GZ, and I don't know how much of what's being reported about him is true or not. I thought, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought GZ *wasn't* in a criminal justice program, but instead a general education program?

I'd have to go back and relisten to the tape, but I thought the 911 operator said 'you don't need to follow him'.... IMO he didn't sound like he was forbidding him or ordering him not to follow. He simply said 'you don't need to follow him'. Again, I'd have to go back and relisten again if others heard it differently.

I'm one of those that appreciates my neighbors vigilance. My three little grandsons live next door to me. Though we live in an extremely rural location, I'm always reminded of Shawn Hornbeck. And I can still see Somer Thompson's mom pleading for neighbors to watch. Someone earlier posted the crime statistics for this neighborhood, they seemed awfully high, to me anyway. An event like this could just as easily gone the other way. There could have been a stranger up to no good in the neighborhood that night.

I'm simply attempting to post my thoughts on this topic, not rationalize what happened that night.

What it would take for me to 'get off the fence' is information as to GZ's injuries to his head, information as to autopsy results on TM. Something tangible to wrap my brain around. An answer as to who was calling for help, GZ or TM. I listened to all the 911 tapes. I didn't hear the warning shot some spoke of. I heard only one shot.

If GZ shot TM for no reason, he should be prosecuted. At first, after listening to the tapes, my emotions took over. But the more I tried to read about this event, the more confused I became with so many contradictions in what was being reported by various news sources. JMO

Gracie,
With all due respect, a boy was walking down the street unarmed. He was chased down by a man with a gun. I don't think a can of Ice Tea or a bag of skittles makes one a criminal.

 

[Adrienne37]

In this article from ABC news, their legal consultant questions whether or not Zimmerman was intoxicated. He states he sounds intoxicated during the 911 call. Of course we will never know whether he was drinking or not since he wasn't arrested right off the bat.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborho...tin-wanted-cop/story?id=15949879#.T2aFSRH2b2Y