FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

[belle3]

That is not a reason for the family not to permit the police to access TM's phone.
Father can be out to dinner and later take a check on his kid.
But IF nobody went looking for the boy until the next day it may shed another light on them. Just wondering...

I explained a scenario a bit back on this thread as to why they may not have given them access to phone records. But, would that change the fact that TM was killed that night? So I dont reall ysee the relevance. But maybe im missing something.

 

[Belinda]

Just as we have sat on this board and expressed our outrage, Sharpton and Farrakan have just as much right to go where they wish to express their outrage as well. Again, I'm not a fan of either, but I understand why they have involved themselves in this situation as it appears to be a civil rights violation, among other things. That will bring them out every time.

 

[Ironhorse]

Or perhaps Ms. McKinley was gifted with the same rare ability that George Zimmerman possesses - the one that allowed him to know that Trayvon was "on drugs" and "up to no good".

You know very well I can't answer that...

Did the police report state that GZ claims he was attacked from behind?

None of that has been made public... Rhetoric & hearsay is much of what people are basing their conclusions on. I'm doing no such thing I've repeatedly said there is a lot that's unknown about this incident.

 

[annalia]

That is not a reason for the family not to permit the police to access TM's phone.
Father can be out to dinner and later take a check on his kid.
But IF nobody went looking for the boy until the next day it may shed another light on them. Just wondering...

Actually, if you read the entire article, it gives a lot of insight into what the father was thinking and doing that night.

I can't find anything sinister in the father's actions, nothing.

The family disputes police claims, others have come out and disuputed police claims. It's the SPD that has the history of coverups.

JMHO

 

[belle3]

<modsnip>

I am really more interested in the facts surrounding this case, or the lack thereof. I believe the laws can help us decipher this. My reading of the florida law and statutes really do not help zimmerman as much as people may think. Just read them. He really wasnt justified in this killing. an argument can be made for second degree murder or manslaughter. The stand your ground and self defense laws are really not looking good for him either. Unless there is other evidence that we havent seen. wich is why a very full and thorough investigation is needed

 

[songline]

Its possible that tm was a punk kid that approached the man that was following him, but using that same logic, why did gz follow him? he brought a gun to a fist fight. Unfortunately, gz lack of common sense and complete lack of responsibility resulted in the death of an unarmed child. I call him child, because according to fl statute the killing of a human being under the age of 18 is designated the murder of a child.

I do not think that a neighborhood watchman should carry a gun at all.
JMHO
I don’t think that GZ was out to kill anyone either.
I do think there was a string of mistakes here by all concerned.

I dont think that calling in Al Sharpton is the right call.

 

[rossva]

In my post I said:

Originally Posted by rossva
What you say very well could have happened. It's just as likely that Martin thought he heard Zimmerman utter a racial slur towards him, and swung at him. JMHO

I never said that Zimmermnan did so,

If this is about what GZ uttered on the phone, there is no way that Trayvon heard any of that. First of all, GZ muttered it under his breath and more importantly they weren't even close to each other at the time.

So GZ would have called him another racial slur as he came up upon him?

If Trayvon heard GZ utter a racial slur then he was obviously defending himself.

 

[annalia]

In my post I said:

Originally Posted by rossva
What you say very well could have happened. It's just as likely that Martin thought he heard Zimmerman utter a racial slur towards him, and swung at him. JMHO

I never said that Zimmermnan did so,

But the same thing would apply to, it's all ok that a grown adult chases down a young kid with a loaded weapon, because GZ "THOUGHT" that Trayvon was up to no good.

Trayvon would have "THOUGHT" that his life was in danger.

 

[rossva]

That would be the attack that started the altercation. For all we know, Martin could have knocked Zimmerman down with a strike, and wrapped his hands around Zimmerman's throat. I have never said tha Martin punched Zimmerman once, causing Zimmerman to shoot him.


Orlando's channel 9 did a computer reenactment of what could have happened. It is here:

http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/trayvon-martin-shooting-reenactment-animation/vGfcS/

Even if this is true and TM hit GZ (and I seriously doubt this) that is not justification to shoot someone. What kind of sissy boy is afraid for his life because some kid punched him in the nose for acting like an ?

 

[LambChop]

That is not a reason for the family not to permit the police to access TM's phone.
Father can be out to dinner and later take a check on his kid.
But IF nobody went looking for the boy until the next day it may shed another light on them. Just wondering...

On the other hand if you have a child who is respectful and never has given you a problem, plus they have provided the child with a phone in case of an emergency, why would they think he was in danger if they did not hear from him. They assumed he went out with his uncle and they went to bed. I think it is fairly common that a child who has never gotten into trouble, who acts in a responsible manner would be trusted to call them if he was having a problem. The fact TM made a call to 911 clearly shows he felt threatened.

Reports so far show TM to have been very responsible from a very early age so I imagine his father assumed he was with someone he trusted. By morning he was concerned. At some point you let your child have more and more responsibility for their behavior once they've reached that age before becoming an adult. You don't wait until their 18 to prepare them to become an adult.

I find it interesting that focus would be on the parents of the victim and questioning their actions. They have already proven their son had done nothing wrong. jmo

 

[Adrienne37]

I mean really is there anyway we can not talk about him in this thread. I am really more interested in the facts surrounding this case, or the lack thereof. I believe the laws can help us decipher this. My reading of the florida law and statutes really do not help zimmerman as much as people may think. Just read them. He really wasnt justified in this killing. an argument can be made for second degree murder or manslaughter. The stand your ground and self defense laws are really not looking good for him either. Unless there is other evidence that we havent seen. wich is why a very full and thorough investigation is needed

Thank you for pouring over them. I haven't read the statutes but I would say very much that the moment Zimmerman stepped out of his vehicle with his loaded weapon to pursue Trayvon that the premeditation was there to charge him with first degree murder. Because of that as well as the victim's age, he would thereby qualify for the death penalty.

 

[songline]

and i really think we should refrain from calling the murder victim a punk because there is certainly no proof or evidence of this. Please. He is someones child that was senselessly killed. A little respect. I am sorry I actually repeated it.

I did not mean any disrespect. I started out all agains GZ but The more I read the more I bang my head....
I have changed my vies since the start of this case.

How would you propose we address the POSSIBILITY that WHAT IF? (not saying he did)
WHAT IF TM walked over to GZ and started with some lip service, just to get him off his back.?

 

[annalia]

I mean really is there anyway we can not talk about him in this thread. I am really more interested in the facts surrounding this case, or the lack thereof. I believe the laws can help us decipher this. My reading of the florida law and statutes really do not help zimmerman as much as people may think. Just read them. He really wasnt justified in this killing. an argument can be made for second degree murder or manslaughter. The stand your ground and self defense laws are really not looking good for him either. Unless there is other evidence that we havent seen. wich is why a very full and thorough investigation is needed

This is what many so legal experts are saying as well. Not all of course but the majority, even the ones that supported the SYG bill.

And the point has always been, especially with the family, that it wasn't for the police on the scene to be the judge and jury. It's up to the courts, after being presented with ALL the evidence, to decide.

But that's not what happened here. SPD thought, in my opinion, that this must have been just another punk kid up to no good, case closed. they never expected it to get this big. They pretty much told people that night what a great guy GZ was.

JMHO

 

[belle3]

I did not mean any disrespect. I started out all agains GZ but The more I read the more I bang my head....
I have changed my vies since the start of this case.

How would you propose we address the POSSIBILITY that WHAT IF? (not saying he did)
WHAT IF TM walked over to GZ and started with some lip service, just to get him off his back.?

Well If that happened, according to the law, verbal threats are not cause to believe that you are about to face serious bodily harm or death. So Zimmermans response to the lip service would not have been in proportion. Therefore it is murder. allimo

 

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

<modsnip>
Thank you. I found it offensive that the VICTIM, A child without a gun, was murdered. TM has No record but there is plenty of proof that GZ has had multiple run ins with the law. And yet people are slandering the child?

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[Adrienne37]

I did not mean any disrespect. I started out all agains GZ but The more I read the more I bang my head....
I have changed my vies since the start of this case.

How would you propose we address the POSSIBILITY that WHAT IF? (not saying he did)
WHAT IF TM walked over to GZ and started with some lip service, just to get him off his back.?

Trayvon giving some "lip service" to Zimmerman means that it's alright to pull out his gun and brutally murder him? Again, just more and more ways to blame the victim when the blame clearly lies on the shoulders of not only Zimmerman but the Sanford Police Department as well.

 

[songline]

This is just not true.

Unless we're saying that Al Sharpton was there the night of the murder it doesn't change the facts of that night.

There haven't been any riots, he didn't call for any riots. He went to that one rally. The parents have attorneys, seem like very capable attorneys, they've been their spokespeople.

He's being made into the major player here when he's not. It's just a distraction. It doesn't change the facts of the case.

JMHO

I do not agree.
Sharpton is never at the sceen, and never just someone on the case.
He is always about the race card.

 

[belle3]

having a family in le and being so familiar with the process, I would think that if gz had some proof to back up his claims he would have kept them or offered them up. Like photos of injuries, the clothing he wore that day, etc. Even if the pd told him he didnt need to. Wouldnt you want proof to cya in case the family of the man you shot in self defense was to claim that that is not what happened? just asking some questions aloud?

 

[songline]

Actually, if you read the entire article, it gives a lot of insight into what the father was thinking and doing that night.

I can't find anything sinister in the father's actions, nothing.

The family disputes police claims, others have come out and disuputed police claims. It's the SPD that has the history of coverups.

JMHO

I am not suggesting anything sinister..
A poster wanted to know why the police could not access the details of that phon.
SO I said WHAT IFFFFF? there are no calls on that phone from parents looking for the boy the night he went missing? That may not look good.
That was a question, not an accusation.

 

[annalia]

Not just walking past houses, but darting up under porches, and hiding his face when he notices he is being followed.

BBM

Now it's porches? When did it become plural?