FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

[belle3]

It does not make him guilty.
but if he gave GZ any attitude IF IF IF
That would only escalate things.
Thaen it is no longer him just runing home.

the escalation of things could certainly have happened, and TM could certainly have said something or even done something to escalate the situation, but gz went into a situation that was neither unlawful or in the process of any altercation happening and his gun was discharged resulting inthe death of a child. That is a homicide. Whats left to be determined is the type of homicide. This killing, in my reviewing of the law does not fall under stand your ground, the castle, doctrine, or justifiable homicide.

 

[Ironhorse]

Well If that happened, according to the law, verbal threats are not cause to believe that you are about to face serious bodily harm or death. So Zimmermans response to the lip service would not have been in proportion. Therefore it is murder. allimo

True a verbal threat in itself doesn't constitute the use of deadly force... However if it's used in combination with an aggressive move it might very well be cause enough... A lot depends upon the totality of all the circumstances. One doesn't have to wait until a weapon is produced to exercise deadly force... If a person shouting at you saying their going to kill you and they act as if they've got a weapon in their pocket and go to reach for it. You have ever reason to believe they're going to make good on that threat.

 

[songline]

On the other hand if you have a child who is respectful and never has given you a problem, plus they have provided the child with a phone in case of an emergency, why would they think he was in danger if they did not hear from him. They assumed he went out with his uncle and they went to bed. I think it is fairly common that a child who has never gotten into trouble, who acts in a responsible manner would be trusted to call them if he was having a problem. The fact TM made a call to 911 clearly shows he felt threatened.

Reports so far show TM to have been very responsible from a very early age so I imagine his father assumed he was with someone he trusted. By morning he was concerned. At some point you let your child have more and more responsibility for their behavior once they've reached that age before becoming an adult. You don't wait until their 18 to prepare them to become an adult.

I find it interesting that focus would be on the parents of the victim and questioning their actions. They have already proven their son had done nothing wrong. jmo

Good children are also checked on... Before I go to sleep I like to know where my kids are. I do not assume anything.

AGAIN: Why not let the police look at phone records???? WHY

 

[rossva]

""I had gone out for dinner," says Tracy, "and when I got home, Trayvon wasn't there. I tried calling his cell phone several times, and it went straight to voicemail. I wasn't that worried, because he had been spending time with my 20-year-old nephew who was a responsible young man. There wasn't a panic that he wasn't at home. I figured that they had gone to the movies, because they had said they might. So I laid down, thinking they would show up later."

Once the calls were not returned, and Trayvon did not return home, Tracy said the next morning he started to get worried

Read more: http://globalgrind.com/node/828905#ixzz1q2zTHxtf

http://globalgrind.com/news/trayvon...parents-speak-out-re-live-final-hours-details


There ya go, quote and link, so I guess it was true.

Where is the link stating that Trayvon's father did not look for him? (Hint: it doesn't exist because it ain't true)

 

[Belinda]

That would be the attack that started the altercation. For all we know, Martin could have knocked Zimmerman down with a strike, and wrapped his hands around Zimmerman's throat. I have never said tha Martin punched Zimmerman once, causing Zimmerman to shoot him.


Orlando's channel 9 did a computer reenactment of what could have happened. It is here:

http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/trayvon-martin-shooting-reenactment-animation/vGfcS/

Then where is the hospital injury report if he was almost strangled to death? Oh, that's right, there isn't one.

 

[songline]

Trayvon giving some "lip service" to Zimmerman means that it's alright to pull out his gun and brutally murder him? Again, just more and more ways to blame the victim when the blame clearly lies on the shoulders of not only Zimmerman but the Sanford Police Department as well.

Absolutely not, I don't even believe that neighborhood watchmen should carry a gun.
But it does mean that instead of running home like his GF told him to do he just escalated the situation.

This case is a mess.

 

[Adrienne37]

Absolutely not, I don't even believe that neighborhood watchmen should carry a gun.
But it does mean that instead of running home like his GF told him to do he just escalated the situation.

This case is a mess.

But why? He had just as much right to "stand his ground" as Zimmerman did.

 

[Velouria]

""I had gone out for dinner," says Tracy, "and when I got home, Trayvon wasn't there. I tried calling his cell phone several times, and it went straight to voicemail. I wasn't that worried, because he had been spending time with my 20-year-old nephew who was a responsible young man. There wasn't a panic that he wasn't at home. I figured that they had gone to the movies, because they had said they might. So I laid down, thinking they would show up later."

Once the calls were not returned, and Trayvon did not return home, Tracy said the next morning he started to get worried

Read more: http://globalgrind.com/node/828905#ixzz1q2zTHxtf

http://globalgrind.com/news/trayvon...parents-speak-out-re-live-final-hours-details


There ya go, quote and link, so I guess it was true.

The next morning, when he woke up, Tracy realized that Trayvon had not returned home. "I started making calls, and I reached my nephew," Martin says. "He said he hadn't seen Trayvon. Then I really started getting worried. So I called the Sheriff's department to file a missing persons report. I let them know it hadn't been 24 hours, but it was unusual for Trayvon not to return home."

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20581404,00.html

And I guess you accidentally left out the part where the dad fell asleep. But then that wouldn't give the appearance that he just didn't care enough to look.

 

[songline]

the escalation of things could certainly have happened, and TM could certainly have said something or even done something to escalate the situation, but gz went into a situation that was neither unlawful or in the process of any altercation happening and his gun was discharged resulting inthe death of a child. That is a homicide. Whats left to be determined is the type of homicide. This killing, in my reviewing of the law does not fall under stand your ground, the castle, doctrine, or justifiable homicide.

I agree.
We do not shoot people.
IF IF IF
GZ had to shoot for some reason.
He could have shot the boy in the leg so he can’t escape.
Even when one has to shoot, they need to be accountable.

 

[belle3]

True a verbal threat in itself doesn't constitute the use of deadly force... However if it's used in combination with an aggressive move it might very well be cause enough... A lot depends upon the totality of all the circumstances. One doesn't have to wait until a weapon is produced to exercise deadly force... If a person shouting at you saying their going to kill you and they act as if they've got a weapon in their pocket and go to reach for it. You have ever reason to believe they're going to make good on that threat.

But there is no proof that TM was yelling im going to kill you! The only thing we know is that someone was yelling help. and in the situation it can be said it was either one of them. But gz was possibly defending himself from fists from a teenager with a loaded firearm That is still disproportionate. If he was unsure of what tm was carrying then his duty was to call the police and not enter into a confrontation that led to the death of a child.

 

[LambChop]

""I had gone out for dinner," says Tracy, "and when I got home, Trayvon wasn't there. I tried calling his cell phone several times, and it went straight to voicemail. I wasn't that worried, because he had been spending time with my 20-year-old nephew who was a responsible young man. There wasn't a panic that he wasn't at home. I figured that they had gone to the movies, because they had said they might. So I laid down, thinking they would show up later."

Once the calls were not returned, and Trayvon did not return home, Tracy said the next morning he started to get worried

Read more: http://globalgrind.com/node/828905#ixzz1q2zTHxtf

http://globalgrind.com/news/trayvon...parents-speak-out-re-live-final-hours-details


There ya go, quote and link, so I guess it was true.

Thanks for that link, Rossva. And had he been to the movies TM's father would have expected his son's phone would have been turned off. jmo

 

[annalia]

Good children are also checked on... Before I go to sleep I like to know where my kids are. I do not assume anything.

AGAIN: Why not let the police look at phone records???? WHY

my bolding

Hasn't that been disputed by the parents? Haven't others disputed what SPD was trying to claim?

OK so according to you, the victim's parents don't meet the proper standards, does that make Tray's murder ok? What exact relation does that have to do with Tray being gunned down? Does them not acting as some think they were supposed to act, or they should ahev realized faster that something was wrong, are they suspect?

I read that article and honestly I don't see where anything bad regarding Tray's father, nothing. Can you point it out?

 

[songline]

""I had gone out for dinner," says Tracy, "and when I got home, Trayvon wasn't there. I tried calling his cell phone several times, and it went straight to voicemail. I wasn't that worried, because he had been spending time with my 20-year-old nephew who was a responsible young man. There wasn't a panic that he wasn't at home. I figured that they had gone to the movies, because they had said they might. So I laid down, thinking they would show up later."

Once the calls were not returned, and Trayvon did not return home, Tracy said the next morning he started to get worried

Read more: http://globalgrind.com/node/828905#ixzz1q2zTHxtf

http://globalgrind.com/news/trayvon...parents-speak-out-re-live-final-hours-details


There ya go, quote and link, so I guess it was true.

The next morning he started to worry...
OK that would not happen in my house...
I would be up by 3AM looking for my kids.

 

[rossva]

1) We do not know what medical reports do or do not exist.

2) Zimmerman used deadly force in self defense to prevent this from happening.

3) My post says "Martin could have ". I did not state as fact this is what happened.

Then where is the hospital injury report if he was almost strangled to death? Oh, that's right, there isn't one.

 

[songline]

But why? He had just as much right to "stand his ground" as Zimmerman did.

Just one difference. while they both had a right to a public street.
WHEN YOU think someone is followiing you, you act with caution,
Why not get your self home? Like GF told him to?

 

[belle3]

Absolutely not, I don't even believe that neighborhood watchmen should carry a gun.
But it does mean that instead of running home like his GF told him to do he just escalated the situation.

This case is a mess.

Wasnt tm on his way home? I dont think we can assume that he wasnt on his way back home when the confrontation happened. Maybe he was trying to lose gz. Who knows. Thats why thorough police investigations are necessary. This PD really has sooooooo much explaining to do!

 

[songline]

my bolding

Hasn't that been disputed by the parents? Haven't others disputed what SPD was trying to claim?

OK so according to you, the victim's parents don't meet the proper standards, does that make Tray's murder ok? What exact relation does that have to do with Tray being gunned down? Does them not acting as some think they were supposed to act, or they should ahev realized faster that something was wrong, are they suspect?

I read that article and honestly I don't see where anything bad regarding Tray's father, nothing. Can you point it out?

The reply was not about being gunned down.
It was about WHY NOT LET THE POLICE ACCESS THE PHONE?
My reply was about-what if it wont make the parent look good?


Nobody should be gunned down.
I don’t even like neighborhood watch men to have a gun.

 

[rossva]

Nope. IMO, The fact he fell asleep would bolster the claim he just didn't care enough to look.

But, you asked for a quote and a link that showed Tracy Martin did not look for Trayvon Martin. I provided both. You didn't ask for excuses why he didn't.


I want to be clear here. I was answering your request for the quote and link. Whether or not Tracy Martin did or did not look for is son is totally irrelevant to this case. I am not blaming Tracy Martin in any way, shape or form for the death of his son.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20581404,00.html

And I guess you accidentally left out the part where the dad fell asleep. But then that wouldn't give the appearance that he just didn't care enough to look.

 

[LambChop]

But there is no proof that TM was yelling im going to kill you! The only thing we know is that someone was yelling help. and in the situation it can be said it was either one of them. But gz was possibly defending himself from fists from a teenager with a loaded firearm That is still disproportionate. If he was unsure of what tm was carrying then his duty was to call the police and not enter into a confrontation that led to the death of a child.

Plus the fact that as a full grown adult who grew up in a household with a judge and a clerk of the court he was fully aware this was a law enforcement matter. Having been through LE training for four months and a member of their local Neighborhood Watch program GZ knew his duty ended with calling 911 and all he was required to do was wait for LE to arrive at the scene. He ignored all that training and put everyone's safety aside, including his own to promote his own agenda.

GZ is the only one who identified TM as suspicious and he accelerated the confrontation by following. No just cause for him to do so because he knew better. His justification for following was "they always get away" as he admitted on the 911 tape. He had already decided TM was guilty in his mind. In GZ's mind he had already concluded that TM was a suspect of a crime he had no evidence was ever committed. jmo

 

[annalia]

Jus one difference. while they both had a right to a public street.
WHEN YOU think someone is followiing you, you act with caution,
Why not get your self home? Like GF told him to?

Walking faster doesn't fall under acting with caution?

Funny, earlier on Trayvon was accussed of acting suspiciouly becasue he DID run away the first time when GZ was still in his car, then he was accused of acting suspiciosuly for putting up his hoodie, now he's being accused for not getting away from this adult stalker fast enough.

The victim here escalated the situation because he didn't run fast enough to get away from his chaser. I can honestly say that I've never heard that on any case that I've followed.