FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

[annalia]

BBM Perhaps Zimmerman thought Martin would have looked in windows had ZIMMERMAN not caught him ducking under the awning. Would you not call that suspicious? You see a person go under an awning, he notices you watching, flips his hoodie up and retreats away. I can 100% see how Zimmerman would interpret that as suspicious.

Of course anything can be made to look suspicious, especially when it's flat out made up. Why that's necessary to do though is anyones guess.

It was raining, Trayvon ducked under the awning to get out of the rain.

No where did it ever state that Trayvon saw GZ watching, while he ducked out of the rain, and then he flipped up his hoodie and retreated away becasue he saw him.

Since this gets repeated so often as fact, please provide links that showed that to be the case.

 

[rossva]

I guess it just goes to show you sometimes being cheap is better.

My Blackberry doesn't do this. If my phone is off, when I turn it on, it only show that I have new voice mails and e-mails, not missed calls.

 

[LambChop]

Quoted from: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/911/call2.wav taken from:http://www.sanfordfl.gov/frames/home_frames.html

Caller: "I just heard a shot right behind my house"
Caller: "They were wrestling right in back of my porch"
Caller: "The guy was yelling help so I'm not going outside (chuckles)"

Would this be the same husband, I wonder?

I don't think so because they claim they did not call 911 until the shots. Perhaps if you listen to interview it might answer some questions. But from what I remember I think she said they called after the shots and after GZ told them to call the police. Mary said they were not sure what was going on but the only fighting they heard was off at a distance, then nothing, then the whimpering and then the shot. jmo

 

[IzzyBlanche]

[rant]

I am kind of annoyed here.

The moderators post, rightfully so in my opinion, not to state opinions as facts and to provide links from reliable sources for statements made.

Yet both of those things still seem to be happening, and not happening, with inpunity.

My own opinion.

[/rant]

 

[Ada]

The fact is that many black men have been taught to NOT run -

snip

This is why the Trayvon Martin case is making such a national impact. Every single black man in this country has lived with the likelihood that they will be found "suspicious while being black" no matter where they live, how they dress, what they have done - or not done - or any factor under their control. No matter how much the white population may deny this, it exists and it happens, probably every day.

snip

Thank you! :bowdown:

 

[vlpate]

Zimmerman outweighed Trayvon by almost double.

Do you have a link for that information? I have read on the police report that Trayvon is 6' and 160, the report does not state GZ's weight. If GZ, at 5'9" weighs 320, he was not in any shape to chase a football player, much less take them down IMO.
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

 

[jjenny]

I don't think so because they claim they did not call 911 until the shots. Perhaps if you listen to interview it might answer some questions. But from what I remember I think she said they called after the shots and after GZ told them to call the police. Mary said they were not sure what was going on but the only fighting they heard was off at a distance, then nothing, then the whimpering and then the shot. jmo

There are people who called 911 before the shot. The shot is heard during some 911 calls. The loud screams are heard and the loud shot is heard. I personally don't hear anything on those calls to support the scenario that the two of them fought then took off running to a different location.

 

[rossva]

That is not up to us to decide. And I guess the SPD decided it did.

You are only allowed to use as much force as is necessary to save your life...fear of having your clock well and truly cleaned by an unarmed teenager that you were trying to intimidate just does not qualify...

 

[rossva]

I don't have a link, so this is just my opinion, but I think I read somewhere this is the course Zimmerman took.

http://www.cityoforlando.net/police/citizen_info/cpa.htm

Thanks - that's the first I've seen that a real neighborhood watch group had been formed. Previously I had read that the group there was not registered and that GZ had attended some sort of training with the Sanford PD in 2008. That is what I was basing my comments on.

It's interesting that the articles up until today did not mention the newly formed neighborhood watch group and characterized GZ as "self appointed". Suddenly today Ms. Dorival surfaces with information that the group was formed last fall, though she does emphasize that GZ did not follow the guidelines the group was given.

 

[vlpate]

Awnings are meant to be 'gone under'.

Yes, they are, and to make old and ugly curb appeal look good lol.

There are no witnesses to Trayvon being under an awning to get out of the rain. Two people would know, Zimmerman and Trayvon and an eyewitness to the beginning of this tragedy - the latter, as far as I know, has not been made public.

 

[Boytwnmom]

tell a story which can easily be put together by a prosecutor and demonstrated to a jury. This story will be told by the 911 call, his history and the forensics, to the extent they can be recovered after shoddy police work. GZ's story, once shown to be in any way fabricated, as I believe it will be, will thus destroy his credibility and render his testimony, should he even decide to testify, meaningless as jurors can disregard testimony from those who have not been truthful and credibility once destroyed means no part of that person's testimony is believed. If that occurs there is no defense.

So, we have the story as I see it. GZ, with a history of demonstrated assumptions about young black males committing crimes in his community and "getting away" appears to be lurking in his truck near the entrance to his community and spots a black boy and immediately calls police to report a really suspicious person who is on drugs or something and up to no good (this also serves to demonstrate his poor and perhaps impaired judgment as Trayvon was neither on drugs nor up to anything) and he also believes Trayvon has something...a weapon I presume in his waistband/hand.

He is told police are dispatched. He starts to follow Trayvon as you can hear his breathing. He's told not to and continues but doesn't tell the operator that, only says to have the officer call rather than meet him thus showing a touch of deception. Why does he do this? Why does he bring a gun? As a NW guy he knows he's not supposed to carry a gun or follow or apprehend someone. So, why does he? Perhaps because he's tired of "THEM" getting away. This does not suggest he just wanted to ASK Trayvon something. It suggests he wanted to apprehend him as he had already concluded that he was a criminal up to no good and on drugs.

How the actual scene went down is unclear. I think the likelihood is GZ was the aggressor based on the surrounding facts and circumstances. It is possible, and I hope Trayvon attempted to defend himself but I think the gun make a quick appearance.

I think there's an excellent chance of making a good case against this killer, at least I hope so. Beyond that, these crazy laws which encourage wild west shootouts are a recipe for disaster. It should not be this easy to kill someone. Law enforcement is more constrained in killing than the crazy yahoo next door in these red states.

ITA

And I'm not sure why it makes that much difference just because 911 didn't say we demand that you stop, they were still pretty forceful when they said "ok we don't need you to to do that" and as a Neighborhood Watch Captain, he would know that 911 says it for a reason.

But in any event, he did make the choice to ignore it so it still goes towards intent and motive. Then add in his "these a******** always get away" and calling him an effin ****, which also goes torwards intent and motive.

JMHO

 

[rossva]

Personally I can wait till the FBI anaylizes the tapes. I have seen quotes by the father saying the screams were not Trayvon's, as well as quotes from the mother that says they are. Anyone have an idea how long it takes to anaylize the tapes?

So we are supposed to believe this witness?

But we aren't supposed to believe Trayvon's own mother that the screams were those of her son?

 

[vlpate]

[rant]

I am kind of annoyed here.

The moderators post, rightfully so in my opinion, not to state opinions as facts and to provide links from reliable sources for statements made.

Yet both of those things still seem to be happening, and not happening, with inpunity.

My own opinion.

[/rant]

Sometimes things are so well known, and has been posted so many times, a member just doesn't think - which was my mistake on the 911 call quotes, I figured everyone knew. All you have to do is ask for a link and they will usually give it, if they don't, I just disregard the information. IMO

 

[LolaMoon08]

First of all, thank you so much for the map...

Doc was right, the 100 yds. Trayvon's father was talking about was from where the incident occurred to Trayvon's house.

<modsnip>

Credit to Lolamoon08 for the photo! The colored lines belong to Lola whose post can be found up-thread, when I find it again I will link.

The credit for the map does not belong to me? I only quoted the map.

 

[LambChop]

It was a chilly (for central FLORIDA) rainy night. At 7:00 pm February 26, 2012, the weather report stated rain, light rain, and chance of t-storms. Again, I do not know the rules at that particular gated community, but based on the rules of the gated community I live in, the pools, due to insurance problems and lack of life guards, close at dusk, and most certainly at any sign of an electrical storms.

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

That still does not explain why a community gathering place would be a suspicious place for someone to be if they were on their way walking home. Our's has a bulletin board where you can read postings. It's not a private home, nothing worth stealing and I'm sure if there were there would be alarms because no one lives there.

What if he did not see GZ and decided after putting his hood up he would jog home because of the rain? I have seen joggers with sweat pants and hooded shirt running, even at 7pm at night.

What GZ was saying made no sense at all. This really isn't a gun issue, it's an issue about a man who could not use common sense, did not listen to instructions, did not heed what he had been instructed to do in the past and just decided to take the law into his own hands. He could have been carrying a knife and still killed TM. So I don't see this as an issue about a gun but an issue about a man who knew better and did not care.

 

[Rougelatete]

Whatever 911 operator told him is only a recommendation, not an order. He doesn't break any laws if he isn't following what an operator told him to do.
He has a full right to be in a gated community. So that in itself doesn't prove anything.

BBM. Trayvon Martin also had a right to be in that gated community. And, he wasn't breaking any laws either.

 

[jjenny]

BBM. Trayvon Martin also had a right to be in that gated community. And, he wasn't breaking any laws either.

Did I say he didn't?

 

[Talina]

I guess it just goes to show you sometimes being cheap is better.

I've had both cheap and expensive phones. None of them have recorded incoming calls in the phone call log if the phone was not turned on.

I have posted a link upthread that shows this not to be possible.

People have posted that they've tested it on their own phones and it is not done.

A phone does not ring if it is not turned on. If a phone does not ring, how can it possibly record an incoming missed call? It can't as far as I know. If it can, that gives smartphone a whole new meaning.

IMO

 

[LambChop]

There are people who called 911 before the shot. The shot is heard during some 911 calls. The loud screams are heard and the loud shot is heard. I personally don't hear anything on those calls to support the scenario that the two of them fought then took off running to a different location.

Where the fight took place is 3 to 4 houses down from where TM was shot. Have you listened to Mary's taped interview? His body was in her backyard. It will very much surprise you. jmo

 

[rossva]

How exactly is that a nonsense statement? It's a direct quote from his gf who claims she was on the phone with him up until the last seconds.

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," the girlfriend, who was not identified, told ABC. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...-phone-call-he-said-this-man-was-watching-him

That blogcritics thingy is not exactly MSM, also snipped from same article another nonsense statement

"The girl, from near Miami Gardens, Florida told investigators, "He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on.” She said, “Then he lost sight of the man":what:.