FL - 17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #5

[m00c0w]

once he made that call to 911 he should have stayed in his vehicle. Having been through neighborhood watch training, he knew this.

That's not what I asked. You stated he had no business having the weapon there. I asked if you think he should have left his weapon in his car. TIA.

 

[LambChop]

BBM

Do you believe he should have taken his weapon off and left it in his car? Keep in mind the police said he was running a "personal errand" when he saw Martin.

I think he made a big mistake by not letting the officers know he had a weapon on him before they arrived. GZ could have been shot himself. Again, I don't feel anyone thinks he shouldn't have had a gun but you always take a chance on losing control of a gun in a fight and it could be used on you. Not letting LE know ahead of time when you had the chance that you have a gun on you could have gotten him shot. jmo

 

[LolaMoon08]

This is all we know --- for fact ---

1) Zimmerman called a non-emergency line to report a suspicious teen who was high as a kite, checking him out, running, etc...

2) Zimmerman gets out of his car and follows Trayvon.

3) We have 911 calls that obviously no one really saw anything except two guys wrestling. We have red shirts, white shirts, jackets, etc...

That's where it ends folks. That's it.

We have multiple statements, from multiple people, but nothing that has legally been backed up with documents from the night of the shooting. We do know that police say George Zimmerman had injuries. We have no seen any pictures of that hopefully recorded evidence. Zimmerman's lawyer says that it was a broken nose and a serious cut that would have needed stitches, but it started to heal on its own. Yet, no pictures?

 

[momshrink]

Trayvon's father was told by the police that Trayvon had Zimmerman on the ground with his hand over his mouth telling him to shut the ****** up and he was able to get the gun out of his pants and shoot him. He says they told him that Trayvon then sat back and told Zimmerman that "you got me."

I have no words for this. SPD seem to have closed the case before they opened it. SPD seem to be GZ's advocate.

JMO, MOO

 

[Lovejac]

Me too, Belinda. I didn't want to say it, but I keep going over and over this, and I can find no way for TM to have landed face down with his hands under him.

If GZ shot TM while TM was on top and TM fell forward, then GZ would have had to move him, to get out from under him. That all makes sense. But if TM was using his hands in anyway to control, hit, choke, whatever, when GZ moved to get out from under, at least one arm would have been out to the side - not underneath. And GZ would have had TM's blood on him. There has been no mention of that either - which indicates that GZ was not in real close proximity to TM. So what does that mean?

Salem

BBM

A whole lot of trouble when the autopsy report is finally released. :what:

 

[m00c0w]

I think he made a big mistake by not letting the officers know he had a weapon on him before they arrived. GZ could have been shot himself. jmo

How do you know he did not?

"Zimmerman stated that he had shot the subject and was still armed."

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

ETA: I see what you're saying, but he did not make another 911 call from all accounts. When police made contact, he informed them then the had had a holstered weapon.

 

[angelmom]

People say Trayvon could have answered Zimmerman's question, but it goes both ways. In fact, I think Zimmerman had more of an obligation to answer, considering the fact that he was the one following another person.

I agree. My kids have been instructed not to talk to strangers who approach them, especially in a vehicle. Just get away and try to get help. Trayvon had absolutely no obligation to answer GZ, who is not a cop, not even a uniformed security guard. He is either a Neighborhood Watch Captain who violated virtually every one of their policies OR a concerned neighbor who has no authority to question or detain Trayvon.

And what is there to indicate that an investigation was not taking place? How long do you think a "normal" investigation with as much vagueness as this should take? Do you think that they should rush the investigation?

Well, as one of the trending updates on both facebook and twitter points out, the woman who threw flour on Kim Kardashian was detained by police and is facing assault and battery charges, while the man who shot and killed Trayvon Martin is free.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I have no words for this. SPD seem to have closed the case before they opened it. SPD seem to be GZ's advocate.

JMO, MOO

Well, his father is a former magistrate of the Virginia Supreme Court?

 

[HiHater]

Is Trayvon alleged to have said "You got me" after he was shot?

 

[m00c0w]

Well, as one of the trending updates on both facebook and twitter points out, the woman who threw flour on Kim Kardashian was detained by police and is facing assault and battery charges, while the man who shot and killed Trayvon Martin is free.

Because of the Florida statute. There has to be probable cause to suspect the use of force was unlawful to arrest Zimmerman. The shooting itself is not sufficient enough unless there is further cause to believe it was unlawful. The man that threw the flour was not affected by such a law, and clearly committed assault and battery.

 

[mikeysmommom]

They could also be refusing to arrest him because it would make them look bad for not having arrested him a month ago when they should have, IMO. They'd have A LOT of answering to do if they turned around and arrested GZ right now. Why did they run TM's background check and not GZ's? Why did they not collect evidence at the scene, including GZ's clothing? Why did they correct a witness statement that she heard TM screaming for help? Why did they not take all witness statements that were available?

Until reports are made public a lot of the above is a moot point IMO. I have no idea if they kept GZ clothing.IIRC on the 911 calls more then one person stated the man with red shirt was on the bottom and he was the one screaming which was GZ, which I believe more then any interviews after a mob mentality can frighten people about their own safety.Of course they run back ground checks esp to see if there was any records.Maybe some people did not answer the door might not have wanted to get involved.Just like people keep saying here they gave TM a drug and alcohol test and not GZ, as far as I know that is routinely done at autopsy, I have not seen it officially stated that police did not give GZ same tests. I am glad they have not arrested GZ because of the pressure that is not Justice IMO if they had proof he did not fire in self defense he would have been arrested IMO.Where is there proof of wrong doing by the police?

 

[rossva]

Even inside a well lit gated community?

I'm sorry, but any man in a car, just sitting there, watching me, would be scary for me? Do we know if Zimmerman was following in his car? We see where his car was stopped, but did Tray start to run when Zimmerman's car started following him?

ETA: I will be the first person to admit, I do profile men more than women. Any man! I don't care what he looked like. That Craiglist killer sure looked like an unassuming character?

 

[Lovejac]

If you read my posts I Always say,
lets give the case a chance... because you all have hung him.
I dont know who is innicent... but all of you only dig up stuff on GZ.

Well, this IS a victim friendly forum and the mods have repeatedly stressed that, so it would be unfair to try and dig up stuff on Trayvon.

IMO the media has researched both Trayvon and GZ and it appears that more undesirable information has been found on GZ.

 

[m00c0w]

Until reports are made public a lot of the above is a moot point IMO. I have no idea if they kept GZ clothing.IIRC on the 911 calls more then one person stated the man with red shirt was on the bottom and he was the one screaming which was GZ, which I believe more then any interviews after a mob mentality can frighten people about their own safety.Of course they run back ground checks esp to see if there was any records.Maybe some people did not answer the door might not have wanted to get involved.Just like people keep saying here they gave TM a drug and alcohol test and not GZ, as far as I know that is routinely done at autopsy, I have not seen it officially stated that police did not give GZ same tests. I am glad they have not arrested GZ because of the pressure that is not Justice IMO if they had proof he did not fire in self defense he would have been arrested IMO.Where is there proof of wrong doing by the police?

I believe it was in the press release where they answer a bunch of questions that the police confirmed they did not run these tests on Zimmerman. They stated it was because he was not placed under arrest.

 

[Footwarrior]

But the media at the time certainly "knew" he did it. The issue is an assumption of guilt. The media is certain that Zimmerman was unjustified and killed a child in cold blood. The circumstances surrounding the shooting are murky at best (at least to the general public). In both scenarios, the public is preparing to string up a man before he's even gone to trial. That Zimmerman shot a child is secondary. The issue is whether he did it justifiably or not, and that is where the parallel comes in. The media has already made up their mind and is influencing the public perception of the case. That is not right.

Zimmerman's 911 call made it rather clear he had already decided that Martin was a bad guy. One of those bad guys that always get away. He was on the hunt and wasn't going to let this one slip away. Even after the dispatcher said not to follow, he kept going.

We don't know all the details, but it's clear that Zimmerman started the confrontation that led to Martin's death.

 

[Rougelatete]

Is Trayvon alleged to have said "You got me" after he was shot?

Yes. According to TM's father, this is what LE told him happened when they first arrived at his door.

 

[octobermoon]

I honestly don't know what to say

These 'friends' who are trying to 'help' GZ should just stop. They are doing him no favors IMO.

Sarcasm alert!!!

The next time someone calls me a f#%^ing goon, I guess I should take it that they love me. (term of endearment my butt). In fact any time anyone puts the
"f-word" in front of other slurs they are calling me, I will just blow kisses.

This is ridiculous. The man shot a boy because he wasn't gonna let another get away. He wasn't in danger, he had a truck, police on the phone, and a gun.

He was in no danger. He could have waited for the police to arrive. He chose to play hero of the neighborhood and killed a kid walking home.
:banghead::banghead::banghead:


JMO MOO IMO JMO MOO IMO...............:moo:

 

[LolaMoon08]

I believe Zimmerman's lawyer should ask LE to release the pictures of Zimmerman's injuries they took at the scene or at the station the night of the shooting? Trayvon's family got the 911 tapes released? Why can't Zimmerman's attorney get them to release the photographs to help his client?

 

[ynotdivein]

Is Trayvon alleged to have said "You got me" after he was shot?

Yes. This is according to tonight's Dateline interview with his father, Tracy Martin, while he was recounting what the police told him two days after Trayvon was killed. I don't know if Dateline puts up transcripts? (I foolishly didn't record it, just DVRd back after watching it, and DH is now watching Ax Men. )

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Zimmerman's 911 call made it rather clear he had already decided that Martin was a bad guy. One of those bad guys that always get away. He was on the hunt and wasn't going to let this one slip away. Even after the dispatcher said not to follow, he kept going.

We don't know all the details, but it's clear that Zimmerman started the confrontation that led to Martin's death.

It's not clear that GZ started the physical fight.