FL - 17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #5

[Sensei]

Maybe the photos you ask for have not been taken yet.

She wants photos of Zimmermans injuries, and if they have not been taken yet then it is well and truly too late.

If the photos that she wants are of Trayvon's injuries and they have not been taken yet then he will have to be disinterred to get them, and even then it may be too late.

 

[Inabsentia]

Right.

But how about you went up to them and they attacked you.

I don't believe - for one minute - that GZ was the first to engage in physical combat.

I think it is highly likely that Zimmerman initiated first physical contact, so we will have to disagree. But you have said several times that the use of deadly force is justified just on the basis of getting the worst of it in a fight. Even in your post above you didn't qualify your statement by specifying an aggressor . I just don't agree.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Here's some information you may find helpful. The diameter of a bullet is only a part of the equation giving the "stopping power" of a particular cartridge. It's actually very complex. I usually don't care to use Wiki, but this one is pretty good.

Stopping power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't care about any of that. All I was talking about was the 9mm slug and the holes it makes in a body. You have over a 1/3 inch hole going in and usually a lot bigger hole coming out. The cartridge which holds the powder of any bullet come in many different lengths and sizes and is impossible to compare.

 

[Lovejac]

Trayvon had walked toward him in the beginning, let's not forget that.

Actually, there is no official report stating Trayvon walked toward GZ.

GZ only said he did during his call to dispatch, let's not forget that.

GZ also said that Trayvon looked like he was on drugs during that call.

 

[JeannaT]

How do you know that Trayvon's hoodie was nearly white? Link please?

I don't.

Much further back in this thread I suggested that he was wearing the same hoodie he was wearing in the only recent pic we have of him. It's a very light grey, and he liked it enough to take a photo of himself in it to post on facebook. In twilight, it would look white. I think he may have been wearing that one the night of the confrontation.

 

[krkrjx]

She wants photos of Zimmermans injuries, and if they have not been taken yet then it is well and truly too late.

If the photos that she wants are of Trayvon's injuries and they have not been taken yet then he will have to be disinterred to get them, and even then it may be too late.

My post was in reference to GZ injuries.

 

[JeannaT]

I think it is highly likely that Zimmerman initiated first physical contact, so we will have to disagree. But you have said several times that the use of deadly force is justified just on the basis of getting the worst of it in a fight. Even in your post above you didn't qualify your statement by specifying an aggressor . I just don't agree.

Well, I don't think that.

He was carrying a gun. People who are carrying a concealed gun rarely physically attack someone with their fists.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Dude. Exit wound != entrance wound. I can post some pretty gory pictures if you would like. Those rifle rounds tumble upon impact. They go head-over-tail. It creates a massive wound channel. .40, .45, and .357 SIG rounds are all bigger than 9mm rounds and have much "better" terminal ballistics. Their wound channels are also much bigger. This is what affects hemorrhaging. Not the size of the entrance wound. I'm not entirely sure what you're disputing.

What is a dude?

 

[LolaMoon08]

I don't.

Much further back in this thread I suggested that he was wearing the same hoodie he was wearing in the only recent pic we have of him. It's a very light grey, and he liked it enough to take a photo of himself in it to post on facebook. In twilight, it would look white. I think he may have been wearing that one the night of the confrontation.

But we don't know for sure. I think I'll wait for more evidence to come out. LE had to have taken pictures of Trayvon's clothes. Hopefully even sent them in for forensics. We'll see? I just can't wait for more information to be released.

 

[m00c0w]

I don't care about any of that. All I was talking about was the 9mm slug and the holes it makes in a body. You have over a 1/3 inch hole going in and usually a lot bigger hole coming out. The cartridge which holds the powder of any bullet come in many different lengths and sizes and is impossible to compare.

And the point is that the entry wound may not bleed like you're characterizing to. It certainly may not bleed as much as other calibers, especially the high-powered rifle calibers you posted. It all depends on where Martin was hit, and what type of ammunition he was using. To try to characterize that a 9mm round is a big slug and therefore Zimmerman should have blood on him is stretching. You also keep talking about exit wounds, as if such a thing is necessary. It's not. Bullets don't always completely penetrate.

 

[LolaMoon08]

What is a dude?

A hair on an elephants arse?

ETA: That's what my teachers would tell me when I would mistakenly call them dude.

ETA: I would only call the cool teachers dude. It wasn't out of disrespect. Just how we talked when I was younger.

 

[Sensei]

Well, I don't think that.

He was carrying a gun. People who are carrying a concealed gun rarely physically attack someone with their fists.

That is simply not true.

In fact it has been my experience that those who carry guns are MORE likely to begin a confrontation, simply because they have an ace in the hole...they will feel very confortable starting a physical confrontation simply because they have a gun and it is highly unlikely that they will lose.

People who carry guns do not simply draw their gun on someone first....if they did they would all be in jail. IMO JMHO and stuff

 

[m00c0w]

That is simply not true.

In fact it has been my experience that those who carry guns are MORE likely to begin a confrontation, simply because they have an ace in the hole...they will feel very confortable starting a physical confrontation simply because they have a gun and it is highly unlikely that they will lose.

People who carry guns do not simply draw their gun on someone first....if they did they would all be in jail. IMO JMHO and stuff

In my experience, people with firearms are more likely to avoid confrontations altogether. Those are the kinds of things that get your permit revoked.

 

[mikeysmommom]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...on-martin-special-prosecutor-plans-20120325_1

"We're on a fact-finding mission," he said Friday afternoon before stepping into the Sanford Police Department, where investigators were expected to explain how they worked the case and what evidence they collected.

"We're still finding out what was done or not done," de la Rionda said.

His team will first review the evidence, decide what other leads need to be chased down, if any, and go from there, he said.

"Let us do our jobs," he said. "Be patient, please."

 

[LambChop]

Yes. If she was alone with the assailant and was screaming for help and no one came to her aid. And she could expect to be further brutalized with no one intervening, as it appeared that night with the confrontation between GZ and Trayvon.

If she was on the volleyball court, with the audience and coaches intervening, not so much.

Sorry your granddaughter had her nose broken by an aggressive player. I hope the player was charged with assault. My oldest son was a soccer goalie in high school, and was fairly often kicked in the face as he bent down to grab the ball. I always wished those players who did that were charged with assault, as well as their coaches who told them to do it. There's no call to hurt a youthful sporting opponent.

Her nose was not broken she had a concussion caused when she fell backwards and hit the floor and also had two black eyes. She's not permitted to play contact sports only to observe or to referee games. No charges. Just girls being mean girls. Only thing she's allowed to do is figure skate because she rarely falls and she can't do jumps but it is exercise and no mean girls there and she loves it. lol

 

[SuziQ]

Please do not think that the SPD is doing a sloppy job only in this case. There is a history. I hope they clean house as a result of the investigation by the justice dept.
JMO

And let me add that the history was so bad they hired Lee to clean things up. He didn't accomplish much IMO.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...6/sanford-commission-votes-no-confidence.html

(snip)
Now Chief Lee, who came on the job just 10 months ago for $102,000 a year to clean up a department tainted by racial scandals, finds himself under fire in what promises to be one of the most explosive law enforcement cases of the year.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...ission-votes-no-confidence.html#storylink=cpy​

 

[annalia]

I believe Zimmerman's lawyer should ask LE to release the pictures of Zimmerman's injuries they took at the scene or at the station the night of the shooting? Trayvon's family got the 911 tapes released? Why can't Zimmerman's attorney get them to release the photographs to help his client?

my bolding

All of the 911 calls were released at the same time weren't they?

Was the 911 call from the guy who's saying GZ was on the bottom released too?

 

[Rougelatete]

I think it is highly likely that Zimmerman initiated first physical contact, so we will have to disagree. But you have said several times that the use of deadly force is justified just on the basis of getting the worst of it in a fight. Even in your post above you didn't qualify your statement by specifying an aggressor . I just don't agree.

In the SYG law, deadly force is not justified if you are the aggressor.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.012.html

 

[rossva]

BBM. Do you have a link to a MSM source to verify that?

By the way, imo, the word original describes the pic, not the original source to use it. In other words, imo, the Miami Herald isn't claiming they were the original source of the pic, rather they are publishing the original pic. The darkert pic very well could be the original pic; just no one knew of it till the Miami Hearald published it.

The Miami Herald may have cropped the pic for size reasons, cropping has absolutely nothing to do with photoshopping the pic.

By the way, do you consider your sources MSM?

my bolding

No one, because the darker picture wasn't the original picture to begin with. That was disinformation.
How could the darker picture that ran on 3/22 be the original, when the lighter picture had already been run in several media outlets prior to that?

And how could a cropped picture be the original when the full picture was run in the media prior to that?

Answer, that darker picture was NOT the original. It was disinformation.

It had already been in the media, here are but a few links that show it had already been in the media.
3/20;
http://newsone.com/nation/tjstarr/million-hoody-march-trayvon-martin/

3/18;
http://carolynedgar.com/2012/03/18/the-tragic-case-of-trayvon-martin/

3/20
http://www.dominionofnewyork.com/20...rtment-launches-trayvon-martin-investigation/

Since the darker picture wasn't really the original, should we now wonder if the MH intentionally altered it to portray Trayvon as darker? Because apparently there are those who believed that making him look lighter would make him look less suspicious.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

And the point is that the entry wound may not bleed like you're characterizing to. It certainly may not bleed as much as other calibers, especially the high-powered rifle calibers you posted. It all depends on where Martin was hit, and what type of ammunition he was using. To try to characterize that a 9mm round is a big slug and therefore Zimmerman should have blood on him is stretching. You also keep talking about exit wounds, as if such a thing is necessary. It's not. Bullets don't always completely penetrate.

I would think a 9mm through the chest of a skinny kid would exit especially since it appears to have been an instant killing shot. Probably right through the heart or major artery. This wasn't someone being shot with a bb gun.