FL - 17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #5

[m00c0w]

I think it means exactly what it says: "A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force"...which the Sanford PD did NOT do.

How could they determine "that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful" if they never investigated???

You can say that we haven't seen all the evidence or that maybe they did take pictures or take GZ's clothing, but it has been a MONTH tomorrow and I feel very confident (IMHO, JMO, etc.) that if any of those things existed, we would have seen them by now in an attempt to alleviate the frustration of and tension in the community.

Do you have a source that says they did not sufficiently investigate this? Or is it all hearsay and suppositions not grounded in fact?

I mean, the media was saying for the longest time that they didn't even confiscate the gun.

 

[Adrienne37]

Is Trayvon alleged to have said "You got me" after he was shot?

Maybe someone has already answered this for you HiHater but yes, that's what his father was told a few days after the "altercation."

 

[songline]

BBM. That's fine. But I fail to see how digging up unrelated information on Trayvon is going to bring you answers. It only serves to put blame on a blameless victim.

When people are discussing that someone attacked someone first.
Was it TM attacking GZ or was it GZ attacking TM It is important to have some character references.
REAL IMPORTANT to have a proper understanding especially where there are hardly any records,
and one of them can’t speak, and one is getting hung with no evidence.
NO I never said GZ should not be arrested, but for what charge? inverstigate, and with no lynch mob.

So it is really important to understand both characters, YEA I stand by that.

This case is a money machine. it is not about justice.

 

[JeannaT]

Actually, I think it does, because those who are trying to attack the victim may go with the darker photo, because it's the stereotypical attitude that darker colored skin is more ominous! If Obama hadn't been 1/2 white, and had been darker, do you really think he would have been electable???

I don't know. I DO know that Trayvon was dark, having looked at innumerable pics of him in childhood.

He wasn't the color of the lightened up hoodie photo. He was the color of the darker more realistic less air-brushed looking one.

And so. WHO altered the photo, thinking a lighter picture would . . . what? Make better media? Attract more viewers? Attract more outrage? ??

Looking again at the two photos, I find the darker one so much more appealing.

 

[annalia]

I don't think it matters at all which picture ran in the media first, a doctored one or an undoctored one. The darker one certainly looks less photoshopped and airbrushed than the lighter one.

BTW, when you look at the color of his skin in ALL the other photos, he's dark. So obviously the dark one is real, the lightened one is fake. Compare the darker hoodie photo to his childhood skin color, and it matches. He wasn't light.

Have you looked at the pixels in the cropped photo? It was distorted.

Common sense should tell us that scanning, cropping and reposting often changes the photo. I posted earlier several photos of GZ where his skin tone was different.

And if it was intentional why didn't they change all of his photos so he looks lighter in all of them?

Common sense again. But yeah, let's go with a conspiracy instead.

JMHO

 

[Lovejac]

What's that supposed to imply? That its alright to paint another a criminal who's yet to be charged of a crime... That right there is frightening... Please, Please, Please, tell me that's not how things work here, for that's borderline slander. Something I would think we would all wish to avoid...

It is probably best that you contact a mod with your questions and/or opinions.

We love having members with differing views and we enjoy debating. This forum is not 'one size fits all', non are.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Somebody said, ages ago, that's why he got out of his car. I think it might have been his dad, I don't remember who said it.

Nope. It was Bill Lee. Not Tray's dad.

At some point Martin noticed that he was being trailed, Lee has said. The chief said Martin turned and confronted Zimmerman, asking why he was being followed. At that point Lee said a confrontation ensued. Lee says that Zimmerman said he stepped out of his truck to jot down the address to give to a 911 dispatcher when Martin attacked him from behind.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...case-george-zimmerman-bill-lee_n_1371635.html

 

[m00c0w]

with no weapons and an adult with a gun. Here, they just believed whatever GZ said. They never bothered to find out that Trayvon was legitimately in the complex, that he was walking home from the store, that all of GZ's conclusions regarding Trayvon were wrong. Even if they believed him that night, further investigation should have shown a murkier picture than what they concluded. I think race played a huge role here and led the drug cop to just believe whatever GZ said and buy the story of this drugged up kid up to no good that he had to shoot after being jumped by him.

There is nothing to prove any of what you just said. They confiscated his gun, they took him to the police station, they interviewed him. No one can say for sure what extra evidence was collected, or what their witnesses substantiated.

They are convening the grand jury to determine if probable cause exists. Due process is simply being followed.

 

[JeannaT]

Nope. It was Bill Lee.

At some point Martin noticed that he was being trailed, Lee has said. The chief said Martin turned and confronted Zimmerman, asking why he was being followed. At that point Lee said a confrontation ensued. Lee says that Zimmerman said he stepped out of his truck to jot down the address to give to a 911 dispatcher when Martin attacked him from behind.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...case-george-zimmerman-bill-lee_n_1371635.html

Okay, whatever. Whoever said it, I don't think that's the reason GZ exited his car.

But I still back shooting someone if your nose is broken by them.

 

[doubt]

Songline, Let me clarify for you. Suspension does equate to a bad kid. And it certainly does not make one deserving of being killed.

as a parent very involved in the school system and well familiar with the many reasons (often hogwash) for which a student may be handed a suspension, it is absolutely ludicrous to suggest that suspension equals a bad kid. i'm shocked to even read such a suggestion here.

imo, moo, etc.

 

[beach]

Tricia and guests, including Richard Hornsby are discussing Trayvon's case on Websleuths Radio tonight.


I would give you the link but my dadgum internet connection is acting a fool and won't let me load anything right now! :hoppingmad:

 

[Lovejac]

I thought that the entire point of this forum was to have opinions and speculation that are grounded in factual reality. Perhaps I was mistaken.

You are partially mistaken.

We are allowed to have opinions and speculations that aren't based on facts.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Okay, whatever. Whoever said it, I don't think that's the reason GZ exited his car.

But I still back shooting someone if your nose is broken by them.

Why would Bill Lee lie? He's seen the reports? It's obviously something that Zimmerman claims happened? Unless Zimmerman lied to investigators or in his report? :waitasec:

 

[JeannaT]

as a parent very involved in the school system and well familiar with the many reasons (often hogwash) for which a student may be handed a suspension, it is absolutely ludicrous to suggest that suspension equals a bad kid. i'm shocked to even read such a suggestion here.

imo, moo, etc.

I completely agree that suspension doesn't equal a bad kid, but it would be nice if someone would actually state the true reason he was suspended.

Between the teacher saying it was for tardies, and the family flat refusing to say why he was suspended and now saying it was for being in an "unauthorized place" and some thoughts on that being that he was in the cafeteria during lunchtime, I don't buy any of it.

A two week suspension is SERIOUS. You don't get that for cutting a class and hanging out with buddies in the cafeteria.

Since there's no real way to tell what happened that night, it would be helpful to know what type of behavior is typical for both GZ and Trayvon, and we don't know that. A two week suspension, as I understand it, means his school would go 10 days without funding for that student. Something a school would be VERY hesitant to do for silly shenanigans like cutting class to take an extra lunch break.

 

[Inabsentia]

If I started an altercation with someone, and they decked me hard enough to break my nose, I don't think I would pull out my gun and shoot them. If I did though, I would not expect to be absolved by claiming self defense.

Not that we know for sure that his nose was broken. I live where it's dry, and even stress can cause my nose to bleed. Only a slight impact would be required for my nose to be bloodied.

 

[songline]

Do you have a source that says they did not sufficiently investigate this? Or is it all hearsay and suppositions not grounded in fact?

I mean, the media was saying for the longest time that they didn't even confiscate the gun.

I know you were addressing another poster, but I don’t know for a fact anything in this case at all except that a young man is dead.
I don’t know much else for sure. We have seen some official reports and interviews, but there are still so many gap, so may unanswered questions .

BASED ON the police reports vague and sparse it is not likely that much of an investigation occurred. I blame them entirely for turning this into a fiasco.
SLOPPY WORK. should have been arrested, investigated,

 

[m00c0w]

You are partially mistaken.

We are allowed to have opinions and speculations that aren't based on facts.

I'm aware of this. My statement was with respect to this forum and my thought that people came here because they wanted factual discussion and discourse, and not just specious claims and suppositions.

 

[rossva]

How will releasing such items as pics of Zimmerman's injuries, etc, to the general public help Zimmerman? So he can be tried in a court of public opinion? I am sure, unless we are part of a potential jury pool, both Zimmerman and his attorney do not really care what we think. IMO thay only care what happens inside a courtroom. If there are pics, and his client is charged with a crime, I am sure both Zimmerman and the attorney will have copies of them.

I believe Zimmerman's lawyer should ask LE to release the pictures of Zimmerman's injuries they took at the scene or at the station the night of the shooting? Trayvon's family got the 911 tapes released? Why can't Zimmerman's attorney get them to release the photographs to help his client?

 

[JeannaT]

If I started an altercation with someone, and they decked me hard enough to break my nose, I don't think I would pull out my gun and shoot them. If I did though, I would not expect to be absolved by claiming self defense.

Right.

But how about you went up to them and they attacked you.

I don't believe - for one minute - that GZ was the first to engage in physical combat.

 

[m00c0w]

I know you were addressing another poster, but I don’t know for a fact anything in this case at all except that a young man is dead.
I don’t know much else for sure. We have seen some official reports and interviews, but there are still so many gap, so may unanswered questions .

BASED ON the police reports vague and sparse it is not likely that much of an investigation occurred. I blame them entirely for turning this into a fiasco.
SLOPPY WORK. should have been arrested, investigated,

The police report we have all been given is the responding officers'. It is in no way symptomatic of the actual investigation.