FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #11

[Netzilla]

Ought to be an interesting weekend. Sharpton et al at one end of town and a gun show at the other.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I'm not ok with that regardless who is doing it. I'm just not gonna get drug into the Al thing. He get's people upset and that's how he works. It's feeds the frenzy. I chose not to get caught up in it. Tray's dead. And Al can't change that.

But he sure can incite the public. He can call it racial although nothing at all points to that.

 

[Beyond Belief]

i wonder if witnesses actually heard what was being said during the altercation and LE will wait until the the recordings are examined completely before revealing that information to the public.

 

[LolaMoon08]

That didn't answer my question.
I asked if its ok to advocate for someone you know is lying.

Everybody has civil rights correct? Even white people?

Yes, everyone has civil rights. Men. Women. Children. Of all races, nationalities and backgrounds. We all have civil rights.

 

[w1df10wr]

Why is there not outrage over incidents like this? http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-04/news/31122324_1_white-boy-fire-tv-station granted the kid didn't die but I don't see this as a major news story. Racism stinks in either direction. Why no public outcry over this?

There is a thread here on WebSleuths for that case - [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164471"]MO - 13 y/o boy set on fire by teens - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame] , hope that helps.

 

[wishuwerehere]

That didn't answer my question.
I asked if its ok to advocate for someone you know is lying.Everybody has civil rights correct? Even white people?

BBM - That is opinion.

Al Sharpton is a black/african american U.S. citizen. He has stood up for black issues in the past, i.e. the right to vote, discrimination against minorities, etc.

I realize many people do not like how he uses his mouthpiece.

But at least he stands up for something. And that something, I believe, is equality.

Isn't that what we all want for each other - equality?

jmo

 

[tlcya]

But he sure can incite the public. He can call it racial although nothing at all points to that.

UBM ? I am not sure how any one of us can say at this point whether it was racial or a hate crime or not. That is sort of the point, it may be it may not be. If it is, it needs to be addressed, without an investigation, that can't happen. Without an outcry, no investigation appeared to be happening.

Don't misunderstand, I do not like Mr. Sharpton. At all. I find him the worst sort of grab a story by the coattails, get my face time in the camera, stir the pot and ride the story as long as I can sort of person.

I am not ready to say it is obviously or obviously NOT a racially motivated shooting. Therefore I cannot say Sharpton is wrong to say its racial. I just don't know yet since the investigation of that possibility is not complete yet.

 

[dienermom]

He could have been suspicious without shooting Trayvon. MOO.

This is an excellent point. Trained LE have tactics to diffuse an escalating situation short of using deadly force. Of course, GZ would not have known of these, given that he was not trained LE. Another reason for the dispatcher to tell him not to follow the suspicious character.

 

[m00c0w]

A bruise, Bruise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, (linking to Wiki 'cause it sure beats some of the other sources I have & is "readable"!) is simply the leaking of the "inner stuff" of the erythrocytes (RBCs) when the "shell" gets damaged/broken. Think of the refrigerated egg in the egg carton that has a tiny puncture, by the time you want to use it there's little left in the shell but the shell is GLUED to the paper of the carton. The carton is "irritated by the leakage" & HOLDS tight & the fluid is discolored.
So too is the bruising scenario, the leakage irritates the surrounding tissue & more blood components show up to "clean up the leak". (that's why you see color changes over time in a bruise!).
The damage to the RBCs is fast. Cardiac pressure is minimally involved as the cells are already within the body part involved in the hard surface interaction.

Bruises per se (yes, there can be peri-mortem activity but that's another "lecture" :rocker do NOT form after death....what does happen is gravity creates lividity (purple-ish color) as the cells are damaged by lack of movement & pressure of a "hard" surface.


Bruising occurs when hard surfaces interact (fist vs skull, fist vs nasal aperture, falling body vs stationary pavement, etc). They can be visible at differing time periods depending upon depth & organ injury, many are observable under regular light sources, others show up under ALS, all exhibit changes under the skin.



BTW: :moo: and my 2 cents worth too! :moo:

I was fairly certain that bruises form when tissue is damaged and capillaries are damaged as a result. The red blood cells then leak out of the capillaries into the surrounding tissue, discoloring it. The citation you provided supports this. I'm not sure if that's what you were trying to get across, but as I understand it, it has little to do with actual burst blood cells and more to do with burst capillaries that leak blood cells into the surrounding tissue.

If the victim suffered a major arterial perforation (I'm assuming, based on the current evidence that he probably had a perforated aorta), the body would almost immediately go into hypovolemic shock due to a severe decrease in blood volume. Capillaries would constrict, and blood would start to get diverted to the "trunk" of the body. If it was an aortic perforation, the blood being diverted would most likely get pumped out of the body just as fast as it arrived. In those circumstances, it doesn't seem likely that much, if any bruising would occur post-mortem.

 

[Boytwnmom]

that night to secure the crime scene and evidence mean that it will be much more difficult NOW to piece together the case. If evidence was hidden, destroyed, overlooked, washed away, ignored etc at the time of the crime then no new investigation begun weeks after the crime is going to be able to replicate what wasn't done correctly in the first place. That is why keeping the pressure on is so important and why ultimately there may be a bigger case about the coverup than about the crime as unfortunately the crime will have had too much evidence destroyed, degraded etc..

Historically, most cases of police misconduct are not dealt with unless the very strong light of public scrutiny demands it. For whatever reason, something interfered with a normal response/investigation, at least that is the opinion of many of us who are looking at the circumstances, response, police actions and history etc. Others may feel it's perfectly normal to shoot and kill a teenager and just be sent home but I don't. I don't find it at all usual to not secure the crime scene, not provide medical attention to an allegedly seriously injured shooter, to have the police chief come out defending the shooter and saying misleading things about the victim (such as "we're familiar with both their records" when Trayvon had none-that sort of thing), witnesses saying they were ignored, tampered with, had their stories changed. I can't imagine this happening in my town and the shooter not being arrested, that's basically it. As a parent of younger, 13 year old twin teens, if one or both of them were shot on their way home from the store with candy by a NW guy who had called 911 on them as being suspicious and this guy was not arrested, I would be calling everyone I know to rail against the injustice but it's not very likely that my two white sons would be found suspicious if they were acting the same way Trayvon was. That's just a sad reality that still exists.

We don't know what evidence there is. That's the point. Now another prosecutor is on the case and he still hasn't been arrested. If it was so evident, I don't see why it's taking this new investigation so long. There's clearly more to it than anyone outside of the investigation knows. Let justice run its course. They disagreed with the initial investigation, so they effectively got a second opinion. Now that second opinion is taking place. Let them work.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

BBM - That is opinion.

Al Sharpton is a black/african american U.S. citizen. He has stood up for black issues in the past, i.e. the right to vote, discrimination against minorities, etc.

I realize many people do not like how he uses his mouthpiece.

But at least he stands up for something. And that something, I believe, is equality.

Isn't that what we all want for each other - equality?

jmo

Equality? Nahhhhh that's not what he stands up for.

< mod snip >

 

[cityslick]

BBM - That is opinion.

Al Sharpton is a black/african american U.S. citizen. He has stood up for black issues in the past, i.e. the right to vote, discrimination against minorities, etc.

I realize many people do not like how he uses his mouthpiece.

But at least he stands up for something. And that something, I believe, is equality.

Isn't that what we all want for each other - equality?

jmo

The problem with guys like Sharpton, etc is when the story turns out to be not what was originally thought (Tawanna Brawley, Duke lacrosse), you can't find these people anywhere.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

UBM ? I am not sure how any one of us can say at this point whether it was racial or a hate crime or not. That is sort of the point, it may be it may not be. If it is, it needs to be addressed, without an investigation, that can't happen. Without an outcry, no investigation appeared to be happening.

Don't misunderstand, I do not like Mr. Sharpton. At all. I find him the worst sort of grab a story by the coattails, get my face time in the camera, stir the pot and ride the story as long as I can sort of person.

I am not ready to say it is obviously or obviously NOT a racially motivated shooting. Therefore I cannot say Sharpton is wrong to say its racial. I just don't know yet since the investigation of that possibility is not complete yet.

Nothing we have seen points to it being racial so far.

EXCEPT: JJ, AS,and the Black Panthers telling us it is.

 

[LolaMoon08]

So now we have two accounts of George Zimmerman losing his cool on women. Once with an ex-fiance and once while bouncing at an "illegal party." We have his 911 transcripts starting all the way back to 2004 where we know on at least one occasion he chased after another motorist and we have no idea how many lives he may have put in jeopardy, depending on the speed he was traveling while doing this.

IMO, George Zimmerman has been a reckless man for a very long time. A dangerous man for a very long time. I have no doubt that had it not been Trayvon that night, it would have happened eventually.

ETA: I think that is something we should really think long and hard about. If it was not Trayvon that night, it would have eventually been someone else's child. White, Black, Hispanic, Asian. Girl. Boy.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

The problem with guys like Sharpton, etc is when the story turns out to be not what was originally thought (Tawanna Brawley, Duke lacrosse), you can't find these people anywhere.

And his own people say he KNEW Brawley was lying and advocated against the "white men" anyway.
Yuck.

 

[cityslick]

So now we have two accounts of George Zimmerman losing his cool on women. Once with an ex-fiance and once while bouncing at an "illegal party." We have his 911 transcripts starting all the way back to 2004 where we know on at least one occasion he chased after another motorist and we have no idea how many lives he may have put in jeopardy, depending on the speed he was traveling while doing this.

IMO, George Zimmerman has been a reckless man for a very long time. A dangerous man for a very long time. I have no doubt that had it not been Trayvon that night, it would have happened eventually.

I understand his past is relevant, but how long ago was this? 2004? Wasn't the guy 19-20 yrs old? Older a few years older than TM was?

 

[wishuwerehere]

The problem with guys like Sharpton, etc is when the story turns out to be not what was originally thought (Tawanna Brawley, Duke lacrosse), you can't find these people anywhere.

I never said the guy was perfect. None of us are.

I don't believe him to be a hater.

jmo

 

[dienermom]

So you are ok with him standing up, advocating for someone, when he KNOWS they are lying?

I'm not.

ETA: it is a race thing when he only does it for one race against one other one.

Who is Sharpton advocating for here that is lying? It can't be Trayvon, because he is dead.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Ought to be an interesting weekend. Sharpton et al at one end of town and a gun show at the other.

I can only imagine how this case has increased guns sales.If people are afraid of riots, I would think they will make sure they have guns in case the crowds go wild.

 

[pkz]

Equality? Nahhhhh that's not what he stands up for.

Research it a little.

Believe it or not...Al Sharpton has a show on MSNBC M-F 6-7pm EST
He has toned down alot....alot...he interviews people that I would have never dreamed, and he is frequent guest on Morning Joe.
He paid his dues, he marched with MLK, and yes, is rather boisterous at times, but he is an activist...the way I look at it? Someone HAS to do it, grateful that some do.