FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #11

[jjenny]

If GZ was black would we be even seeing this story? Would Sharpton be involved? I bet not.

I am pretty sure of it as well.
In my opinion, races of Zimmerman and that of Trayvon are the major reason this case is getting so much attention.

 

[belle3]

The truth only has one version. Legality versus morality. Just wow! what it has come to. A child is killed and no one wants to be held accountable. What happened to self accountability. GEEZ!!! ok, rant off.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Really, that's all you took away from Gitana's lengthy, well thought out, and thoughtful, obviously time consuming response to the question's YOU asked? Huh...

Her lengthy, well thought out, and thoughtful, obviously time consuming response was not all responses to my questions.
I responded how I felt the need to.

The only portion of her post directed to one of my questions was a couple of sentences. Her response was a multi quote.

 

[Etilema]

But I ask again, why would so many LE cover this up? It would imply that a vast amount of the department was in on it, and I don't see the motive or rationale.

Their own racial prejudice could lead them to believe GZ's story without analyzing or investigating too carefully. They could have believed, along with him, that Trayvon had it coming to him because he was a young up to no good. Then, when it turned out that Trayvon had a good reason to be there and perhaps was not scouting the neighborhood looking for a place to burglarize, and the public outrage started, then they had a motivation to circle the wagons and cover up whatever they neglected to do initially and build a case that they had good reason for accepting GZ's story.

JMO

 

[LambChop]

They are having a lot of impact on this country right now in the name of Trayvon.

IMO its relevant to the case.

It's still political, TM is the vehicle. jmo

 

[Netzilla]

So TM would have had to had GZ's head in his hands which would, IMO, cause bruising to himself or scraping his knuckles at the very least. Wouldn't that be apparent after his death? jmo

Why would that cause bruising or scraping? You just grab him by the face/ears and flail away.

Has the autopsy report even been released?

 

[OneLove]

Our civil rights are the same no matter color.

Oh really? Then where are the civil rights for Trayvon??

Again, IF Trayvon had been a WHITE high school football player walking in the rain with a new slick looking raincoat, GZ would have stopped to offer him a ride home, and MAYBE even warned him to watch out for THOSE people, ya know, the suspicious LOOKING black dudes. :what: IMO

 

[m00c0w]

Their own racial prejudice could lead them to believe GZ's story without analyzing or investigating too carefully. They could have believed, along with him, that Trayvon had it coming to him because he was a young up to no good. Then, when it turned out that Trayvon had a good reason to be there and perhaps was not scouting the neighborhood looking for a place to burglarize, and the public outrage started, then they had a motivation to circle the wagons and cover up whatever they neglected to do initially and build a case that they had good reason for accepting GZ's story.

JMO

I can see one or two cops doing that, but seemingly an entire police department orchestrating this seems a little far-fetched.

 

[Etilema]

I am pretty sure of it as well.
In my opinion, races of Zimmerman and that of Trayvon are the major reason this case is getting so much attention.

I thought most people agreed that the major issue here is indeed whether racism played a part.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

but why does that mean this one doesn't exist? This case is about more than one thing-it's about one guy making race based decisions about whether a person belongs and has so much faith in his decision that he feels confident in going after it carrying deadly force. There's the issue of police conduct or misconduct and how it was so quickly determined, right at the scene that no crime had been committed, that there was no need to secure the location, find evidence, get down witness testimony etc. There's a police chief acting as defense atty for the shooter. There's a dead boys family seemingly treated quite disrespectfully.

Given the history of racial problems in this country is it really so hard to empathize with people who have historically been marginalized and treated as outsiders, as those who don't really belong and have no real right to co-exist in society. Those who, if they're walking in a gated community, are assumed to not belong, even though other black people live there. People who see this boy shot and killed for no good reason that has been shown.

I just don't find it at all hard to empathize here with the Martins while I find it very hard to empathize with GZ. I admit that. I don't think he had any right to do what he did. If he had just stayed in his car or left his gun in the car if he HAD to pursue this boy, this didn't have to end in a death. His extremely wrong judgment about this person would not have had a deadly ending if he had just left it with 911 and waited for the cops who were on their way. Then his "mistake" about Trayvon maybe could have ended with an introduction that may have set everyone on a more productive path to seeing another person as an individual and not a type. But once he was committed to voluntarily undertaking a confrontation with deadly force I place the blame on him as the adult and the one with clearer choices. For we don't know what Trayvon thought or did beyond what his GF remembers him saying about the weird guy and being followed. He was always the prey and GZ the hunter who didn't have to start or end the hunt. Some may believe Trayvon started the altercation but I haven't seen evidence of that.

Yes, there are lots of problems in the larger black community. There are problems in poor and lower class neighborhoods all over the country. Some people are scared that Sharia law is coming...whatever. That doesn't mean that there is no problem in Sanford FL that has to do with the death of Trayvon.

We still don't know if this was GZ defending himself after TM started a fight with him. All the facts are not in and you're making some pretty huge unjustifiable leaps imo.

 

[jjenny]

I can see one or two cops doing that, but seemingly an entire police department orchestrating this seems a little far-fetched.

I think the reason is the "stand your ground" law. They know it's pretty much impossible to prove one way or the other who started the fight. And unless it can be proven legally it's going to be very hard to convict Zimmerman of anything.

 

[jojomonkey]

I am pretty sure of it as well.
In my opinion, races of Zimmerman and that of Trayvon are the major reason this case is getting so much attention.

Well yes, IMO the reason Trayvon is dead is because of his race. GZ saw a young black male looking "up to no good" while simply walking through a neighborhood. Racial profiling. This case is a HUGE race issue. Had Trayvon been a white male, I honestly believe GZ wouldn't have called 911 and started following him. I think the police would have handled it differently had he been white as well.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

It's still political, TM is the vehicle. jmo

So if they are using TM as the vehicle, wouldn't it be relevant to this thread?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Oh really? Then where are the civil rights for Trayvon??

Again, IF Trayvon had been a WHITE high school football player walking in the rain with a new slick looking raincoat, GZ would have stopped to offer him a ride home, and MAYBE even warned him to watch out for THOSE people, ya know, the suspicious LOOKING black dudes. :what: IMO

Right. In your opinion. As you stated.

Does not make it fact though.

 

[jjenny]

Well yes, IMO the reason Trayvon is dead is because of his race. GZ saw a young black male looking "up to no good" while simply walking through a neighborhood. Racial profiling. This case is a HUGE race issue. Had Trayvon been a white male, I honestly believe GZ wouldn't have called 911 and started following him. I think the police would have handled it differently had he been white as well.

If you take away the races of those involved, what do you get? Two people fighting, one kills the other and claims self-defense. Without proving who started the fight, prosecutor knows he is not going to get a conviction.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Roseville High School's principal tells students to wear hoodies in support of Trayvon Martin

Principal says he took a 'little bit of a beating' over move

Author: Jim Kiertzner, Local 4 News Reporter, [email protected]

Published On: Mar 30 2012 05:04:57 PM EDT Updated On: Mar 30 2012 05:22:17 PM EDT

Roseville principal tells students to wear hoodies

ROSEVILLE, Mich. -
The principal of Roseville High School said he got some kickback when he allowed students on Friday to wear hooded-sweatshirts in memoriam of Trayvon Martin.

“I’m taking a little bit of a beating. I understand why. They’re drawing more toward the political battles in Florida," said principal Peter Hedemark...

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...rtin/-/1719418/9847738/-/3xbr69z/-/index.html

 

[MarthaM]

If George Zimmerman is not arrested in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin soon, the Rev. Al Sharpton will call for an escalation in peaceful civil disobedience and economic sanctions.



Sounds like Rev Sharpton is asking for RIOTS, imo.

I agree with those who have said that it sounds like he would call for just what he said--an escalation in peaceful civil disobedience and economic sanctions. Riots don't fall under that description. An 'escalation' is an increase, not a change to a different thing altogether.

I have never heard a 911 operator give ORDERS called ORDERS to a 911 caller. The assumption is that, since the CALLER has called for help and instruction, they will do as they are told by the person they chose to call! Why would the operator NEED to issue ORDERS to someone? Plus, wouldn't that take a lot of extra time? I ORDER you to tell me what the person is wearing? This isn't Simon Says-it's generally more important than that and if I call 911 I'm pretty darn sure going to do what they tell me to do unless it's patently absurd.

IMO, the person saying "We don't need you to do that" was also kind of saying, "Bud, ain't your job...that's what we're for...I don't THINK so". I guess if I were the operator I'd be thinking "Strange dude, you're calling about a dangerous criminal and now you're gonna follow him-how stupid are you?"

I've had to call the police a few times at work, and I've always done whatever the dispatcher said to do. I think that any rational person would stay put if a dispatcher said they don't need the caller to follow someone.

Of course, I haven't called them dozens of times like Zimmerman has. I wonder if, in the course of those many calls, he's gone off on his own to keep playing cop when he has been advised to stay put?

I live in NJ,in a small town and they have started to pull the riot gear(trucks,tanks)out of the buildings they are usually kept in.They are expected trouble it would seem.JMO

There are small towns that have garages full of trucks and tanks that they use whenever there's a riot? I'm going to have to google that one and check it out--I've never heard of such a thing.

I'm not sure that there is any MSM information that could answer your legitimate question satisfactorily, but under the circumstances I submit the following 'walks like a duck, quacks like a duck' information:

From:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...an-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html

Quote:
"36. April 22, 2011 – 7:09 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Juvenile black male “apprx 7–9” years old, four feet tall “skinny build short blk hair” last seen wearing a blue t-shirt and blue shorts"

While I can't really tell what word Zimmerman said, the duck is quacking for me even without it.

(snipped by me)
ETA: I think that is something we should really think long and hard about. If it was not Trayvon that night, it would have eventually been someone else's child. White, Black, Hispanic, Asian. Girl. Boy.

I agree completely.

I have a question? Let's just for a moment think about this?

If Zimmerman is never arrested, charged, prosecuted for the death of Trayvon Martin and he was allowed to just go on with his life as he had left off before this happened, would you want him in your neighborhood? Would you feel safe with him having a gun and becoming the Neighborhood Watch Captain of your neighborhood? Would you allow your child to go and pick up some snacks from a store if you knew George Zimmerman was lurking around the neighborhood?

As I said a few threads ago... I wouldn't want to live anywhere near George Zimmerman.

 

[OneLove]

I am pretty sure of it as well.
In my opinion, races of Zimmerman and that of Trayvon are the major reason this case is getting so much attention.

So if GZ had been black, and Trayvon white, and the 911 call was "there's a suspicious looking WHITE guy walking down the street, white guys burglarized some homes here, THEY always get away, but THIS honky isn't going to" and he turned up dead in the SAME circumstances, you would be okay if blacks said you were just pulling your "race card" when you objected to NO INVESTIGATION???

If you say yes, I can tell you right now I don't believe you.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

There is nothing that we have seen that points to GZ as a racist.

NOTHING.

But yet it's continued over and over on the thread.

He has been called a racist for weeks now and I've seen no evidence of it.

Unless, just the fact TM was black means GZ was racist.

I don't get it.

 

[lauriej]

http://www.insideedition.com/news/7935/ ... s-out.aspx
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S BROTHER SPEAKS OUT

--snipped--

He insisted Zimmerman had a broken nose which is still healing, even though many have said the video of Zimmerman in police custody showed no visible injuries.

Robert said, "To me, his nose looks swollen in that video."

But in a stunning twist, MSNBC reported that George Zimmerman's own attorney said Robert Zimmerman is just seeking attention and hasn't seen his brother George in years.