FL FL - Austin Stephanos & Perry Cohen, both 14, Jupiter, 24 July 2015 - #1

[ATasteOfHoney]

If I'm remembering correctly, the Gulf Stream is about 15 miles off of Jupiter, so that seems very very likely. (I may be wrong, it's been a long week with little sleep!)

The Gulf Stream is closer than that, Whiskey.

Also, we have also neglected to mention that this area is known as "The Lightening Capital of the World" as evidenced in a storm we just had this evening. They grounded the planes at the Palm Beach International Airport today at around 4pm due to lightening & bad weather.

Ugh!

 

[Hiandmighty]

14 is so young. I wonder if it will change to at least 15: 16 is too much to ask for imo

 

[WhiskeyBent]

To anybody that is familiar with Florida off shore fishing there are a few questions I have been wondering about if anybody knows.

1-How fast does the Gulf Stream current actually move?
Is it like 5 MPH, 10MPH ?

2-What are "shoals" ?

3-What are "breaks" and why do they occur?

4-Are "inlets" kind of dangerous to get out past them to get in the deep water? I always wondered how they get past breaking waves that we see on a beach and wondering how boats can get past them from the Intracoastal out to the deep water without having to go through breaking waves like we see on a beach?


Also just want to add that I can understand the Coast Guard needing to call off the search by now. I started to think about what it would take to free float with just a life jacket on and I realized that you have to constantly do some treading of the water to keep your head up and keep from gulping down sea water.

Whenever the waves would get even a little rough it would mean that you would be bobbing around and unless you do some treading, you would probably constantly be dunked every now and then. Especially if the waves got rough again.

Even on the calmest of seas I dont think you can just hang there without expending a little effort with your arms and legs.

So started to realize that after a few days of that exhaustion would take over and you could not physically be able to take it. You would likely give up and begin to get dunked under and have a few bad swallows of salt water and after a few of those it would basically be the end. Sorry to be so graphic but starting to realize that the Coast Guard is right with their estimates of how long someone can handle it free floating with a life vest.

The Gulf Stream moves at an average of about 5-6mph. Sometimes faster, sometimes slower.

A shoal is pretty much a sandbar, an area which becomes dry land like a temporary island as the tide goes out. It goes back underwater at high tide, but is shallow.

A break is similar, but doesn't always show above the surface of the water. When you move further from the shore, the water gets deeper, usually gradually. Off Jupiter, there's a drop off. It's gradual, but then drops off into way deeper water. That creates more waves in that area when it's rough.

See the gradual change in the color of the water right off the beach? Then it gets really dark... That's the break. Sometimes the inlet dogleg (jetty) itself acts as a break. Waves crash on that area like whoa when it's rough.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hiandmighty]

Someone on another board calculated the boys would be by Chesapeake bay by now if they were in the gulf stream.

 

[Hatfield]

The Gulf Stream moves at an average of about 5-6mph. Sometimes faster, sometimes slower.

A shoal is pretty much a sandbar, an area which becomes dry land like a temporary island as the tide goes out. It goes back underwater at high tide, but is shallow.

A break is similar, but doesn't always show above the surface of the water. When you move further from the shore, the water gets deeper, usually gradually. Off Jupiter, there's a drop off. It's gradual, but then drops off into way deeper water. That creates more waves in that area when it's rough.

See the gradual change in the color of the water right off the beach? Then it gets really dark... That's the break. Sometimes the inlet dogleg (jetty) itself acts as a break. Waves crash on that area like whoa when it's rough.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks so much for the information. It helps a lot.
And that picture is dramatic and it does really show the dropoff and the inlet well.

Thanks as it helps me to better understand some of the things we have talked about in past few days.
Much appreciated.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

My brother just confirmed that the Gulf Stream runs at about 6mph typically (as the poster above stated) BUT he added that when storms come from the south or southwest, it can intensify to over 12mph.

 

[T4Tide]

Which makes me mad. In the Gulf of Mexico everyone 16 and under must wear a life jacket and they will board your boat and check! It's a big fine. We have had our boat boarded more than once when deep sea fishing out at the rigs. Why are rules not the same in the Atlantic?

That is not true in Florida. I've been in the Gulf many times and the law is that children under 6 must wear a PDF while a vessel is in motion. All others must have an approved PDF on board, but do not have to have it on.

http://www.boatus.org/life-jacket-loaner/staterequirements.asp

 

[T4Tide]

Seems as though in a vessel under 26', a vest is required by law. Granted, this is Boat US, but they're pretty reliable.

http://www.boatus.org/life-jacket-loaner/staterequirements.asp


[h=2]Florida[/h][h=3]What age must wear PFD:[/h]Under age 6.
[h=3]Vessel Length:[/h]Less than 26 feet.
[h=3]When PFD Must be Worn:[/h]Must be worn while vessel is underway.
[h=3]Approved PFD Styles:[/h]Type I, II, or III

Only has to be worn by children under 6. All others must have vest on board. I was just in FL in the Gulf last month with my children.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

My brother said that the fisherman terms for a shoal is: objects like coral or rocks that lie slightly under or over the water which can be hazardous to boaters.
He said (in fisherman-think) that breaks are: when rip currents appear in steady clusters. It creates steady waves that surfers like.

 

[Dockins]

14 is so young. I wonder if it will change to at least 15: 16 is too much to ask for imo

This may bring about that change, who knows. Oftentimes it takes one accident to bring about change. I've seen it in other situations, involving adults in life or death scenarios. Experience and education never hurts, it's just more expensive and time consuming, IMO.

 

[Hatfield]

My brother just confirmed that the Gulf Stream runs at about 6mph typically (as the poster above stated) BUT he added that when storms come from the south or southwest, it can intensify to over 12mph.

Thanks. Thats quite amazing that it can actually go up faster like that. Even 5-6 MHP is actually pretty quick. A person walks on average of 3 MPH so it is basically double the speed of walking which is rather quick.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Fisherman brother in that area said this about the speed of the Gulf Stream: he could be out on his boat in Delray which is 20 miles south by boat & very much close to the beach in the Gulf Stream waters & make it up to Jupiter **without** turning on the engine within 5 hours----on a nice weather day. He said he's done this hundreds of times.

IMO, As far as boating laws & regulations being changed; I'm sad to say that I doubt this will change anything. It's a different culture here (as either Hatfield or Whiskey mentioned previously). Without getting into it too much & without passing judgements, I'd say it's "rules-loose" with plenty of dudes sporting flip flops, a shark-tooth necklace, driving a Mazzaratti. Don't even let me start about the ladies-->what rhymes with "elastic"? Lol!

 

[WhiskeyBent]

The Gulf Stream is closer than that, Whiskey.

Also, we have also neglected to mention that this area is known as "The Lightening Capital of the World" as evidenced in a storm we just had this evening. They grounded the planes at the Palm Beach International Airport today at around 4pm due to lightening & bad weather.

Ugh!

I know, I'm a doofus. I corrected myself later on but didn't edit this post...lol oops! It's about 3 miles from Jupiter, according to my husband. So, not far.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[WhiskeyBent]

Heeey Honey- not all the ladies!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wendybtn]

Seriously? You think I meant "Oh they are dead, I can move on with life and forget them?" Closure as to not knowing where your child is. Not knowing if they are alive on an island somewhere, eaten by sharks or floated off to never be seen again. It is way easier to grieve knowing what really happened. No one will every forget or get over losing a child, closure is easier to come by when you know the real story.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, I meant nothing personal. I just don't believe in closure. It is a term someone made up to sell some books about 20-25 years ago, IMO.

 

[annahanna]

No, they left the inlet 3 hours before the storm was there. There is a cross current in the inlet...there's water pushing out, but there's also water pushing in. Sometimes you can actually see swirls in the water like a toilet flushing.

Then...there's a break just outside the inlet that creates waves, and the current pushes from the south side of the inlet around to the northern side. There is a huge erosion problem on the south side of the inlet because of that current.

They went out voluntarily. The police dept has video of them leaving the inlet under full power.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i agree with everything you said except the timing. It was initially reported (based on the mother's statements that she heard from him then) that they went out about 11:00AM. In actuality, they were observed motoring out of the inlet just as the storm was hitting. The fisherman who reported seeing them said that it was notable because all of the other boats were coming in.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/n...of-storms-hit-area-wherewhen-boys-took/nm7Fh/

 

[WhiskeyBent]

Someone on another board calculated the boys would be by Chesapeake bay by now if they were in the gulf stream.

Here's a Gulf Stream current map from today, you can see where it curves east out to sea.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wendybtn]

I have only hope that a Miracle will keep them alive and found! A Miracle is what it will take for these boy's to survive. No matter how cool and confident their parents are that they are very resourceful, seasoned boaters --the way that storm came up and the photos of the waves they would be dealing with had made seasoned adult fisherman head inland while seeing them go out into a darkened stormy sky.

That would be my first hint that perhaps as parents we had not prepared them as well as we thought. I do not care how much time 14 years olds (children) spend on the water with their parents or by themselves in the ICW -----mother natures fury makes grown men unable to think clearly. Do they really think their 14 year old sons would be cool headed enough to go up against a storm??? Those poor kids did not know what hit them.

......and I find it rather disturbing to watch the parents interviewed with a calmness and confidence that makes one wonder? I mean to be sitting on a sofa calmly with another mother and talk about how sure their kids are just fine--in fact as their father said "are probably spear fishing and having Sushi" I know we all have our ways of coping but this is just bazaar and totally disconnected, don't you think??

For the Austin and Perry's sake as well as their parents I truly do hope they are just fine and waiting to be found.....but I am not sure if all the prayers and vigils in the world can help them now!

That is just denial, a mechanism used by our brains to keep the full force of a terrible shock from hitting us until we can handle it. I doubt either mother wants to be seen keening and wailing on the floor. But they are probably doing some of that, too.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Here's a Gulf Stream current map from today, you can see where it curves east out to sea.

It's freaky how close the Gulf Stream is near Jupiter. You can actually SEE where it starts even from the beach looking out---it is bright blue water.
That's why it has the best fishing! Known to fisherman as the "Sailfish Capital of the World"

 

[wendybtn]

Listen to the initial 911 call from the Father to Jupiter PD. He states several times they had not heard from the boys since they left with the boat to go fishing, and the boys took the boat offshore, out in the ocean. He actually had to correct the dispatcher with the location of the boys / boat, "they are offshore". So by their own admission to LE, the parent's knew the boys went offshore fishing with the boat that day. The only restriction on them was they had to call in by cell-phone every couple of hours to let the parents (Mom) know where they are.

Or maybe he had searched the inlet and realized they were not there but still gone in the boat.