GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #4

[HauntsForHope]

Problems in Preventing Suicide--or Murder

"Recently in the wake of the murderous rampages that have taken place around the country and which have involved random shootings, including the shooting of children, there has arisen a demand to do something to prevent further such outrages. The remedial measures that have been suggested are two: removing or controlling access to guns and improving the care of the mentally ill so that fewer people will be inclined to murder."

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fighting-fear/201303/problems-in-preventing-suicide-or-murder

 

[Loudmouth]

Thanks Carolina Moon. Great observations!

I keep flipping back and forth on this one.

Did her MI become worse because of her refusal to comply with the doctor's orders

Or was it impossible for her to comply because she was so very MI? The anger that she clearly was experiencing may have simply been a symptom of MI?

You're a bright button for noticing the pattern with JS: She gets outraged when she sees someone (or something, for example the meds) stands in the way of her being able to do what she wants.
Here's another example: She stated in the police interview that she loved her children when they were birth through 6 years old...just about when they start wanting to choose their own clothing and develop their own interests and opinions. When they started to become individuals, she didn't love them anymore.

I feel so badly for this family. Growing up with a MI mother and a dad that can't be around much must have been pure hell. We've seen with our own eyes how JS can be.

In the interview with LE, she said when the children say hurtful things, she doesn't say anything back and that she just cries.

When the judge busted her trying to play the "my attorneys have advised me" game, she started to cry. Same thing when she was admonished for the outburst!

 

[Bernina]

I have been thinking about the things she did and didn't do after killing the kids. I bet the first thing would be to have a few drinks to steady herself. We know she reloaded the gun. She wrote postit notes and placed them where they would be read. She went to the pool, but left the gun in the house. If her plan had been to commit suicide, why didn't she bring the gun with her? The lanai would have been the perfect place to shoot herself, no blood mess in the house.

If she was in cycling into psychosis, she could become distracted, became obsessively detailed, have disconeccted thoughts, and/or have no awareness of time. Various parts of her plan are coming and going.
That's probably why the post its weren't on the door when the carpool came by, but were there when LE showed up.
She wasn't thinking about the mess........there already was a mess in the car and in her daughter's bedroom. She was probably in the lanai (it's just a fancy word for "PORCH") having her last smoke and nodded off. The intent looks like she was going to kill herself in her bedroom.
She had already missed her target with her first shot at Beau (into the windshield), so she wanted to make sure when she shot herself, she had enough bullets to finish herself off if she missed the proper placement. Some people DO survive from self inflicted head shots.

 

[Loudmouth]

If she was in cycling into psychosis, she could become distracted, became obsessively detailed, have disconeccted thoughts, and/or have no awareness of time. Various parts of her plan are coming and going.
That's probably why the post its weren't on the door when the carpool came by, but were there when LE showed up.
She wasn't thinking about the mess........there already was a mess in the car and in her daughter's bedroom. She was probably in the lanai (it's just a fancy word for "PORCH") having her last smoke and nodded off. The intent looks like she was going to kill herself in her bedroom.
She had already missed her target with her first shot at Beau (into the windshield), so she wanted to make sure when she shot herself, she had enough bullets to finish herself off if she missed the proper placement. Some people DO survive from self inflicted head shots.

JS goes OUTSIDE to smoke but was going to shoot herself INSIDE? Who cares if there is smoke odor in the house when there would have been 3 grizzly decedents in there?

OK, I can accept your theory if I put it all down to automatic behaviors (if she was used to smoking only outside, she would default to that behavior).

IF this was caused by psychosis, then you're right. If she is playing this whole thing up, then she just fudged one of the details.

Still flipping back and forth on this one. Her DT sucks though. No passion at all.

 

[Bernina]

I wonder how come no one suggested she start using e-cigs....but I guess that's just another :worms:

Many people with MI smoke cigs because of the effect nicotine has on their brain to concentrate, stimulate, reduce anxiety, pain, and extends the positive effects of dopamine.
Ecigs would have given her all the benefits from nicotine, without the over 600 ingredients, 7000 chemicals, and carcinogens when regular cigarettes are ignited.
Cigarettes are really hard to quit when you're taking benzos.
Just an FYI.

 

[Loudmouth]

Do we know for sure that JS won't testify? I haven't seen it anywhere that she would.

I wouldn't advise it. She's too angry to be on the stand. She will get into it with the DA and look like a dangerous woman that needs to control everything and everyone.

 

[Loudmouth]

I also am not sure I buy the way JS behaved during the perp walk. I had a relative that was MI and she had TD. Her shakes and ticks did not come and go. They happened every few minutes. JS was not shaking in the video at the gun store, nor does she shake or grimace in court. I see that the DT is trying to say it was because she had taken an overdose of psych meds, but the policeman that interviewed her even noted "your shaking seems to have calmed down" or something like that. I'm not sure she wasn't doing that for the cameras.

This case is difficult. Any symptoms of MI can be faked. And sometimes people that really are MI get disbelieved because their behavior doesn't "seem crazy".

 

[turaj]

I wonder how come no one suggested she start using e-cigs....but I guess that's just another :worms:

Many people with MI smoke cigs because of the effect nicotine has on their brain to concentrate, stimulate, reduce anxiety, pain, and extends the positive effects of dopamine.
Ecigs would have given her all the benefits from nicotine, without the over 600 ingredients, 7000 chemicals, and carcinogens when regular cigarettes are ignited.
Cigarettes are really hard to quit when you're taking benzos.
Just an FYI.

This is a classic pick your battle situation...the smoking was absolutely the least of the issues and I found it odd that PS and others even mentioned it. Lots of kids have parents that smoke...many don't like it but again the very least of the problems.

 

[Chelly]

Do we know for sure that JS won't testify? I haven't seen it anywhere that she would.

I wouldn't advise it. She's too angry to be on the stand. She will get into it with the DA and look like a dangerous woman that needs to control everything and everyone.

.......and appears to be insane

 

[Cherry]

i don't know if anyone has asked this but:

According to the car pool driver's testimony, there were no sticky notes on the door when he came to pick up the children. But when le arrived, there was a sticky note stating that the family had gone to nyc. The note was addressed to "carpool". what would be the purpose of her putting that note on the door after the carpool was due to arrive?

aliby. We r dealing w a brilliant mind here. Immho she is malingering and.playing the system as much as hemy neuman did. She did that aftr the fact.to cvr her . Plain n simple.

 

[Cherry]

This is a classic pick your battle situation...the smoking was absolutely the least of the issues and I found it odd that PS and others even mentioned it. Lots of kids have parents that smoke...many don't like it but again the very least of the problems.

THE KIDS GO TO SCHOOL.SMELLING OF SECOND HAND.SMOKE. IT APPEARS.TO ME THIS WAS.A.DEAL.BRKR FOR CALYX.:banghead:

 

[Cherry]

Srry for abbrv and omg keyboard n sun sux lol.

 

[MyBelle]

Do we know for sure that JS won't testify? I haven't seen it anywhere that she would.

I wouldn't advise it. She's too angry to be on the stand. She will get into it with the DA and look like a dangerous woman that needs to control everything and everyone.

BBM. Whether she testifies or not, I think it is already a noticeable fact that she is a dangerous woman who needs to control everything and everyone. This isn't a case about mental illness, it is a case of domestic violence. Her defense team could be the finest legal team in the world but they still don't have much to work with to persuade a jury mental illness is to blame because the woman is still very much alive.

She executed her own children in order to have the final act of control and to punish them and their father. I think she didn't commit suicide because she wanted to stay around and watch the agonizing torment of the father and his family, including his mother whom she referred to as a b****.

The jury will have no problem coming to a swift verdict.

JMO

 

[turaj]

so looking forward to tomorrow...any idea who is up next for the defense? I would think it would be the therapist...maybe some other doc and end with PS. The case is not going well for the defense and I have to wonder if they may have some second thoughts about calling PS...I see why they would want to but could really backfire. Not really sure. Any thoughts on this.?

 

[MyBelle]

JS goes OUTSIDE to smoke but was going to shoot herself INSIDE? Who cares if there is smoke odor in the house when there would have been 3 grizzly decedents in there?

OK, I can accept your theory if I put it all down to automatic behaviors (if she was used to smoking only outside, she would default to that behavior).

IF this was caused by psychosis, then you're right. If she is playing this whole thing up, then she just fudged one of the details.

Still flipping back and forth on this one. Her DT sucks though. No passion at all.

I think a case like this one would be tough for any defense team. They know she killed her children. That in itself would be difficult to get past emotionally and in terms of how to defend her actions.

JMO

 

[Bernina]

My daughter used to criticize a lot of stuff I did or didn't do. She even called me "mentally ill", "insane", "crazy", "why don't you just kill yourself", etc. When I hospitalized my self the first time, 3 1/2 weeks, her boyfriend was the cook's assistant in the kitchen at the psych unit (They called it the PUF). I was there hanging out with the group of "wrist cutters" one day, she was across the hall with her BF and totally ignored me.

THAT hurt, along with her words. Major insult to injury for an "illness" I didn't ask for.

 

[Spellbound]

My daughter used to criticize a lot of stuff I did or didn't do. She even called me "mentally ill", "insane", "crazy", "why don't you just kill yourself", etc. When I hospitalized my self the first time, 3 1/2 weeks, her boyfriend was the cook's assistant in the kitchen at the psych unit (They called it the PUF). I was there hanging out with the group of "wrist cutters" one day, she was across the hall with her BF and totally ignored me.

THAT hurt, along with her words. Major insult to injury for an "illness" I didn't ask for.

Bernina, with all you have been through in life, you totally amaze me! you are one heck of a strong, amazing woman. :loveyou:

 

[Abigail]

If she were a smoker, I doubt she was in bed that whole time. As you say, who was there to check up on her, and she would manage to get up to pick up the kids from school because she had the carpool. That takes an effort. jmo

Her mother-in-law was staying with them from the time that she entered rehab in early November until around Dec. 12 -- so she'd have noted that JS was in bed, and reported that to PS. JS apparently told PS that she would get out of bed when MIL left. (And I think the cleaning lady also reported that she said something to that effect)

I believe the cleaning lady said in her testimony that JS didn't smoke in the house -- she'd go out to the pool area, and smoke in a lounge chair.

 

[Abigail]

What a heartbreaking case!

Something that has been bothering me about the investigation about JS hitting Calyx. Why was that not considered domestic violence? Is it because Calyx was her child, so it is not illegal to hit her? Even without observing injuries, JS admitted to it so why wasn't she charged with assault?

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk

What was written up in the investigation was that Calyx was verbally abusive to her mother, and wasn't responding to non-corporal means of discipline -- such as losing privileges, or having her phone taken away, or whatever. The investigation also noted that neither parent had any sort of prior record, that the house was neat and tidy, and that the family had a support system.

ETA: it's legal in Florida for parents to use corporal punishment (in fact, it's still legal in many of the Florida schools); the question would be if backhanding your teen across the mouth while she was driving is considered corporal punishment or assault.

Personally, I think the investigator was a bit swayed by the gracious home in an upper middle class neighborhood.

 

[Loudmouth]

What was written up in the investigation was that Calyx was verbally abusive to her mother, and wasn't responding to non-corporal means of discipline -- such as losing privileges, or having her phone taken away, or whatever. The investigation also noted that neither parent had any sort of prior record, that the house was neat and tidy, and that the family had a support system.

ETA: it's legal in Florida for parents to use corporal punishment (in fact, it's still legal in many of the Florida schools); the question would be if backhanding your teen across the mouth while she was driving is considered corporal punishment or assault.

Personally, I think the investigator was a bit swayed by the gracious home in an upper middle class neighborhood.

They did have a beautiful home! But I think that the presence of the father (who seems like an outstanding guy) also influenced the outcome of the child abuse investigation. PS seems very mature and patient.