GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #6

[Rhozwen]

Wild About Trial ‏@WildAboutTrial 48s
#JulieSchenecker “you can’t hide mental illness when your tongue is thrusting. you don’t even know you’re doing it."

What an irresponsible statement. :facepalm:

 

[minor4th]

"I've really lost my mind"



Does an insane person know they're insane?

No question JS knew she was very sick

 

[nursebeeme]

Wild About Trial ‏@WildAboutTrial 16s
#JulieSchenecker “she took the pills and they took effect more quickly than she thought and she passed out."

was this before or after all the emails, stickie notes, drinking, and calendar notations to tell her husband to cancel sports events? :burn:

 

[Nymeria]

JS looks pretty darn calm at the moment.
Calmer than I think I have seen her the entire trial.
Interesting.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This is the best point she's made thus far

But it does make sense or as much sense as any other cases where a mother has plotted and carried out the murder of her child or children.

Nothing makes sense to people that don't have murderous capabilities inside of them. We always try to make sense out of each and every case where a mother murders her own children. Nothing make sense to us because we would never do such a thing but like with every murderer it makes sense to them.

This wasn't done because of MI. This was done out of revenge because the kids disrespected her and she thought they were mouthy kids and she also did this to get back at the anger she had toward Parker.

Those motives are very common when mothers or fathers kill their own children.

If she was truly psychotic at the time the gun owners would have never sold her a gun in the first place.

Anyone looking at the gun shop videos can see she isn't in a psychotic episode.

IMO

 

[Rhozwen]

Lunch break! Well needed rest for our brains :great:

 

[Bernina]

if anything, that treating doc, who had all the info from Parker (and according to his own testimony bought her stories during an office visit and did not baker act her tho he thought about it and did not share any of this info.. legally of course.. with parker... should truly be at fault here... He was owned by a manipulative patient imhoo)

*Respectfully snipped by me*

Throughout this trial, repeatedly it has been posted that she manipulated her Dr.s.

Psychiatrists are probably the least likely to be manipulated of any medical profession. Every Dr. had her history. If she was so good at manipulating, Oberman would have dispensed the oxy she wanted. There would have been evidence that she was juggling MD's to get medication, or stealing scripts.

With her diagnosis' of Bipolar/schizoaffective/psychotic features, every Dr. she saw would engage in a dialog with her to sort out "fact" from "fiction".

There's no way, with all the psychiatrists and psych facilities, that she could have manipulated her way through the system.

 

[newone]

And I see clouds shaped like dogs and other things..... pffft

sign of creativity!

''clouds in my coffee'' aka Carly Simon, "You're so Vain"

 

[nursebeeme]

the emails I linked upstream also mentioned the fact that Parker was planning on retiring. This could also be a motive as there would be no more out of town trips with the Army (also earlier testimony that I read said that he requested a year ext. to his Tampa assignment plus they bought a home).

I think she did not want to change also iirc she had previously been non compliant with her mood stab. (Lithium) as it dulled her manic phases. She was clearly out gambling the day she killed her children and had been manic and gambling over the previous time period... and her husband detailed, as well as he could to the treating physician, that she was not taking her meds or filling new ones. I don't think the drug she chose to OD on should be ignored at all. :twocents: I would further just postulate that her drug seeking of oxy and her drinking (oxy was from the treating doc testimony.. he did not give it to her per his testimony) was to tampen down the mania when she needed to.

 

[04009margaret]

I'm going with M1. I don't believe she intended to commit suicide, she wanted it to look like a legitimate attempt. I say that because I believe she did want PS to find them, but when it came to the crunch, she just couldn't go through with it for herself. Why send a txt message after her email to PS & leave the b/d sliding doors open if she didn't want to be saved. Then you have both kids finished off with a shot to the mouth, speaks volumes to me, that was her personal final show of discipline for being mouthy.
As for her female lawyer, she gave a passionate plea for her client, but I don't believe she even believes what she just said. I've watched her non interaction with her client closely, she won't even look at her now, unless she absolutely has to, there is something very wrong there. As for her statement that JS was on auto pilot doing her chores, specifically the driving, all of us fellow sufferers of MI or depression knows just how hard it is to concentrate & be alert just for a very short drive, that's another reason I don't buy what the defense is selling.

 

[nursebeeme]

*Respectfully snipped by me*

Throughout this trial, repeatedly it has been posted that she manipulated her Dr.s.

Psychiatrists are probably the least likely to be manipulated of any medical profession. Every Dr. had her history. If she was so good at manipulating, Oberman would have dispensed the oxy she wanted. There would have been evidence that she was juggling MD's to get medication, or stealing scripts.

With her diagnosis' of Bipolar/schizoaffective/psychotic features, every Dr. she saw would engage in a dialog with her to sort out "fact" from "fiction".

There's no way, with all the psychiatrists and psych facilities, that she could have manipulated her way through the system.

she had numerous health conditions and <edited out: my bad... cancer was with another family member) (per the emails) so she must have run out and thought she would have a go at getting some from him.

I think she absolutely did manipulate him as he did not pick up on what she was with holding even though he had info from her husband (emails). :twocents:

 

[minor4th]

Does the defense have the whole day for their closing argument?

 

[Abigail]

IMO, the State has done a better job presenting evidence that she was mentally ill, but not insane, at the time of the murders, than the Defense has done in trying to prove she was insane.

Personally, I'm not sure whether she was or wasn't. There's some things she did that make me lean toward insanity -- for instance, she forwarded the kids' grades to Parker, just minutes after shooting them -- it was like she was doing an ordinary, routine thing, like on autopilot, as her children's lifeblood was pooling on the floor. And...she said they were still making noises...well, they wouldn't have been...so what was she hearing? In her interview w/ police on 1/28 (and reading the transcripts) -- she appears to be drifting in and out of reality, and making odd statements (like the squeaking chair when asked if she understood her Miranda rights) that might indicate she was in a psychotic state. But, as Dr. Stein pointed out -- that could be due to being in shock and also the effects of her overdose of Lithium -- she probably WAS in a bit of a psychotic state at that point, but whether or not she was on the day before is the big question.

That's why I'd love to be able to read those journal entries in the days prior to and the day of the murder. I'm gleaning from the little tidbits we're getting here and there that she might have been drifting in and out of some sort of psychotic state (or was it an alcoholic haze?) -- perhaps her statement "I really have lost my mind" was when she was in more of a state of lucidity, reading some of her earlier entries that were totally out there.

The biggest problem is the 3 day waiting period (actually it was 5 days). If everything had happened in one day, that would be one thing. But...to wait that 5 days...that means she had to maintain this plan of killing herself and the kids over a period of time..that would mean she'd have had to remain in a psychotic state for at least 5 days, and that during those 5 days she'd either need to not understand what she was doing (which, clearly she was understanding), or hold the belief for 5 days straight that what she was doing wasn't wrong. And that's why the journal entries -- in the whole -- are so important.

 

[Abigail]

she had numerous health conditions and also was treated for cancer (per the emails) so she must have run out and thought she would have a go at getting some from him.

I think she absolutely did manipulate him as he did not pick up on what she was with holding even though he had info from her husband (emails). :twocents:

Julie Schenecker was not treated for cancer -- that was her brother Dave's wife (another Julie) who was going through cancer treatment at the time of the murders.

 

[angelainwi]

Do we really know when those entries were made?

 

[CUCKOOHEAD]

IMO, the State has done a better job presenting evidence that she was mentally ill, but not insane, at the time of the murders, than the Defense has done in trying to prove she was insane.

Personally, I'm not sure whether she was or wasn't. There's some things she did that make me lean toward insanity -- for instance, she forwarded the kids' grades to Parker, just minutes after shooting them -- it was like she was doing an ordinary, routine thing, like on autopilot, as her children's lifeblood was pooling on the floor. And...she said they were still making noises...well, they wouldn't have been...so what was she hearing? In her interview w/ police on 1/28 (and reading the transcripts) -- she appears to be drifting in and out of reality, and making odd statements (like the squeaking chair when asked if she understood her Miranda rights) that might indicate she was in a psychotic state. But, as Dr. Stein pointed out -- that could be due to being in shock and also the effects of her overdose of Lithium -- she probably WAS in a bit of a psychotic state at that point, but whether or not she was on the day before is the big question.

That's why I'd love to be able to read those journal entries in the days prior to and the day of the murder. I'm gleaning from the little tidbits we're getting here and there that she might have been drifting in and out of some sort of psychotic state (or was it an alcoholic haze?) -- perhaps her statement "I really have lost my mind" was when she was in more of a state of lucidity, reading some of her earlier entries that were totally out there.

The biggest problem is the 3 day waiting period (actually it was 5 days). If everything had happened in one day, that would be one thing. But...to wait that 5 days...that means she had to maintain this plan of killing herself and the kids over a period of time..that would mean she'd have had to remain in a psychotic state for at least 5 days, and that during those 5 days she'd either need to not understand what she was doing (which, clearly she was understanding), or hold the belief for 5 days straight that what she was doing wasn't wrong. And that's why the journal entries -- in the whole -- are so important.

I think JS emailed the kids grades to PS after she killed them so that everything would look normal so that it wouldn't until he was faced with their dead bodies totally devastated and gutted. IMO JS wanted to him to get the whole effect all at once.

 

[Goose22]

The following is speculative and heavily influenced by my personal experiences:

At this point I don't even know if it matters whether Julie thought she was doing the right thing or not. Grandiose thinking is quite common with bipolar disorder and from what I've seen IMO Julie wasn't an exception. I'm not a mental health professional but IME it's not uncommon for someone with bipolar to think they are right despite all logic. What's important IMO is that she knew that everyone else would think she was wrong and I believe she's shown that. Thinking she's in the right IMO wouldn't be a sign of insanity in this case; it would just be another symptom of her bipolar disorder and IMO she's mentally ill, not insane.

 

[nursebeeme]

Julie Schenecker was not treated for cancer -- that was her brother Dave's wife (another Julie) who was going through cancer treatment at the time of the murders.

oh my bad! thank you!


:seeya:

 

[newone]

Thanks Zoey. Yes but that was the shooting of CS. The impression I got from the description of the shooting of BS was that she was actually in the act of driving and just reached out and shot him. One bullet went through the window and one went into BS's head. So how come no one else heard or saw anything?

I have wondered why this wasn't a static display In the trial too....after all the poster size calendar was presented (boring)...no word about where, time etc of the gunshot and if you were driving along the road wouldn't you notice the car next to you having car window damaged by a bullet?? Lot's of traffic I am sure....odd:twocents:

 

[04009margaret]

You're right, the burden to prove insanity is on the defense. But they can't produce any doctor because she's obviously not insane. She's just another vicious, vindictive killer who was out for revenge. She not only knew what she was doing, she wrote it down so she could go back and enjoy her handiwork all over again.

JMO

BIB
Remember PS testified that they communicated by writing, so that JS could go over it to help her understand if her memory failed her. This is why she wrote out her plan & described in detail how she executed her children. This is how she communicated with herself & PS. She first planned it out in her head & then wrote it down as per her normal way of communication.