FL - Coralrose Fullwood, 6, found murdered, North Port, 17 Sept 2006

[Pandora]

"Both argued to the judge that DCF is late in turning over evidence against Ellen-Beth, and that Dale's child charges doesn't mean he's an unfit parent."

BOTH attorney's argued this, even Ellen-Beth's?

I think Ellen-Beth's attorney was arguing this because she has a right to full-disclosure. ALL documents concerning the case must be turned over to defense attorneys w/i a reasonable amount of time to eliminate surprises at trial and to give the defendant the opportunity to defend herself fully.

 

[Garnan]

It was explained on the other message board, by, I think, Ellen-Beth, that her case could not be severed from Dale's in the child custody case. The only thing she could do is get her own attorney. The case has to be presented with them as a parental unit. She is not happy about it. They are separated, she has left him, I don't know if she has filed for divorce yet or not.

 

[mssheila]

RiverRat- I agree- maybe it is time for a "part 2" thread. I very much appreciate all the work you're doing to keep us posted about this very unusual case, and because you're so thorough- it's becoming really long. :blowkiss:

As far as Ellen Beth- IF she has not filed for divorce yet- what could her reasoning be? Why hasn't she filed- it would seem like that would make it clear to the Court that she would not be allowing Dale around the children.
Here are the reasons I think she SHOULD file the divorce papers.

1. They're separated, living apart.

2. It seems clear to me from reading what she's posted online, unless I'm misinterpreting her comments, that she wants nothing to do with him.

3. I believe it would practically guarantee that she could get the children back if she filed for divorce.

4. I could be mistaken about this- but if she files for divorce, maybe the judge could have hearings for the parents separately- so Ellen Beth would have a very good chance to get them back on her own. Right now, it looks like they're requesting it together.

 

[mssheila]

It was explained on the other message board, by, I think, Ellen-Beth, that her case could not be severed from Dale's in the child custody case. The only thing she could do is get her own attorney. The case has to be presented with them as a parental unit. She is not happy about it. They are separated, she has left him, I don't know if she has filed for divorce yet or not.

If she did file- do you know if the parent's request for regaining custody could be heard seperately by the judge?

 

[Taximom]

It was explained on the other message board, by, I think, Ellen-Beth, that her case could not be severed from Dale's in the child custody case. The only thing she could do is get her own attorney. The case has to be presented with them as a parental unit. She is not happy about it. They are separated, she has left him, I don't know if she has filed for divorce yet or not.

This is very interesting information, thank you!

 

[mooselover]

I know the reason that the parents have separate attorney's is that a lot of the time, one parent will do better or work the cae plan and the other won't. I have had numerous cases like that so I suspect that the reason the request was denied is that neither parent is doing what is asked of them by children services. If the mom was actually doing what was being requested then she could have started the process of getting the children back and the first step there is unsupervised visits. Somethings up!

As far as disclosing all her attorney has to do is file a motion with the court stating they think they have not gotten something. But if it is part of the police investigation then it is a mute point as they will not disclose the ongoing investigation until they are ready and children services won't have it either.

 

[RiverRat]

Last I read, Ellen has not filed for divorce - for financial reasons. It is not cheap to file here, but ya get what ya pay for.....

 

[Garnan]

I think Ellen-Beth is doing everything that she is supposed to do. She has left the husband, though not filed for divorce. Moved into a new place in Ft. Myers, close to her folks (and the kids). She sees the kids several times a day, but only with supervision (court order), to the extent that if one of the grandparent's has to leave the room, she goes outside. I don't know what else this woman should be doing, other than getting that divorce, which I guess, is just not in the budget right now. I hope she isn't involved in that little girl's murder, because I just can't help feeling sorry for her.

 

[mssheila]

I know that she's not been ruled out as a suspect, but I am sure the family court judge knows what evidence is against her if there is any. And because I think she's not a suspect in the murder (and the judge knows that)... it's got to be the fact that she hasn't filed for divorce. The possibility that she may reconcile with Dale at some point- which the judge would obviously consider to be a very bad idea for those children. I'm not sure how much it costs to just FILE for divorce.. but how expensive can it be just to fill out the paperwork. I know the eventual proceedings could be very pricey, but just to fill out the papers and file it with the court.. would be expensive? That doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe someone in FL who has done this could explain it?:waitasec:

 

[mooselover]

I don't know Florida law, but my state and many others you can file on your own. There are evan free workshops on how to do it and fill out the paper. With divorce so common now it is more the norm and pretty easy. As far as you get what you pay for and please correct me if I am wrong they did not own a house or appear to have a lot of assests. But could be wrong.

Also, again the reason you have separate attorney's is because a lot of the time one works a case plan and another does not. I think it is because she is not cleared in the criminal case yet for whatever reason. But again, I do not see a judge not letting her move forward if she is working her case plan and we, of course do not know what it entails. There is more to it than we know.... IMO

 

[txsvicki]

I know the reason that the parents have separate attorney's is that a lot of the time, one parent will do better or work the cae plan and the other won't. I have had numerous cases like that so I suspect that the reason the request was denied is that neither parent is doing what is asked of them by children services. If the mom was actually doing what was being requested then she could have started the process of getting the children back and the first step there is unsupervised visits. Somethings up!

As far as disclosing all her attorney has to do is file a motion with the court stating they think they have not gotten something. But if it is part of the police investigation then it is a mute point as they will not disclose the ongoing investigation until they are ready and children services won't have it either.

Will Beth have to take classes, get counseling, keep a clean home, and have a home with enough room for the kids for at least 6 months before even being condsidered for regaining custody of the kids? I wonder how long this will go on if there are no arrests for the murder?

 

[OneLostGrl]

First, I hope I did not come off as arrogant as I am far from it. But I am known at work in the CINA community as passionate about what I do. I am also one of the biggest advocates for parents as well as children. I do all I can to empower them to get their children back. With that said yes, you can have more than one diagnosis on each axis or more than one on just one axis. I can not remember ever seeing a psych eval in my line of work that did not have more than one. By that I mean on either axis. And yes, what I am saying it is a possiblity. This is of course after many reports, referrals etc. And then finally custody of the children: It is the norm. Can't remember who posted about how if you are so depressed can you go to work and get degrees. Good point. If she was totally depressed as she has stated she would be unable to function at that level. Bi-polar people can due to having manic and then depressive episodes. My sister is bi-polar ( severe) and I have been her main care taker for years.(although she is living on her now, barely. Very hard... so I also have dealt personally with the mental disorders. Thanks for helping me to clarify my thoughts. New at this and trying to get the hang of it.

I have a question and do not want to have to go back and read. It seems as though her parents were more out spoken in support of the dad rather than their daughter. As we know, like serial killers, pedophiles, present well and there is usually no " red flags". I wonder if he also was able to fool them as well as everyone else and due to the mothers problems she is the one who came off looking worse than him. Have they came out in support of her as much as him? Can't remember. ALL is My opinion

(Ahh, bet y'all were wondering when I'd notice the mental illness thing being discussed and open my big mouth, huh?!)

Mooselover- I gotta tell ya that with everything I have heard about this woman, I do not think that what she has is Bipolar.

Although I am by no means a mental health professional and have not one credential, I'm leaning more towards this woman having BPD.
Often times a person is misdiagnosed with one when they have the other.

I understand what you are trying to convey here but seeing as you work in the field, I'm sure you must realize that not everyone with Bipolar has the exact same symptoms. Just because this woman was awake for 36 hrs doesn't automatically mean she's manic. Sure, it's a symptom that does arise when one has Bipolar but it's certainly not indicative of Bipolar!

The biggest problem with these 2 illnesses is that they have MANY symptoms that mimic one another. People with BPD have often been found to have Bipolar features.

You mentioned that only therapy can help with BPD but I have to disagree with that to some extent. I have great respect for the DSM but, again, every person is different and I have seen people with BPD improve while taking a Anti-psychotic and/or Mood stablizers. Zyprexa has helped my mother tremendusly!!

Mental Illness follows only it's own rules and often colors out of the lines.
But I wouldn't be surprised if the mother in this case is found to have BPD when/if evaluated by a Psychiatrist.

Ok, I have gone on enough and am beginning to ramble so I'm going to bed! 'night!

 

[Garnan]

I think they do own a home, but were living in a rental at the time of the crime. I can't remember why....


I agree, it shouldn't be that hard to get a divorce, especially when one party has charges pending for child . In my state there are agencies to help with divorce, costs, advise, free lawyers etc.

Sorry to be so dense, but what is BPD?

 

[mooselover]

(Ahh, bet y'all were wondering when I'd notice the mental illness thing being discussed and open my big mouth, huh?!)

Mooselover- I gotta tell ya that with everything I have heard about this woman, I do not think that what she has is Bipolar.

Although I am by no means a mental health professional and have not one credential, I'm leaning more towards this woman having BPD.
Often times a person is misdiagnosed with one when they have the other.

I understand what you are trying to convey here but seeing as you work in the field, I'm sure you must realize that not everyone with Bipolar has the exact same symptoms. Just because this woman was awake for 36 hrs doesn't automatically mean she's manic. Sure, it's a symptom that does arise when one has Bipolar but it's certainly not indicative of Bipolar!

The biggest problem with these 2 illnesses is that they have MANY symptoms that mimic one another. People with BPD have often been found to have Bipolar features.

You mentioned that only therapy can help with BPD but I have to disagree with that to some extent. I have great respect for the DSM but, again, every person is different and I have seen people with BPD improve while taking a Anti-psychotic and/or Mood stablizers. Zyprexa has helped my mother tremendusly!!

Mental Illness follows only it's own rules and often colors out of the lines.
But I wouldn't be surprised if the mother in this case is found to have BPD when/if evaluated by a Psychiatrist.

Ok, I have gone on enough and am beginning to ramble so I'm going to bed! 'night!

OLG,
I agree and it was someone else that asked about the possibility of bi-polar and that is when I stated that you can have two or three diagnosis. As the lines are so very blurry and only through a complete (HONEST) psych eval with all the testing can you know for sure and evan then I have questioned them myself. Personally, and in my opinion I think she suffers from a personality disorder and possible other diagnosis. Just from what I have read going through the thread. I am going to assume Borderline personallity disorder is what you mean by BPD. And that is great if the medication helped, But my clients are usually more severe and medication is given for other diagnosis'. As far as bi-polar. Trust me I know, my sister, as I said has it and just moved in to our home again last night after a stay at the crisis center. Very sad.... But other people are bi-polar, on meds, and you would never know unless they told you because they go to work, have children, etc. My sis is a severe case. And then there are the ones in the middle of the spectrum as you pointed out.Also no one is more leary of the mental health community. After dealing with it for years professionally and personally I want to scream some days......MOP

 

[mooselover]

Will Beth have to take classes, get counseling, keep a clean home, and have a home with enough room for the kids for at least 6 months before even being condsidered for regaining custody of the kids? I wonder how long this will go on if there are no arrests for the murder?

tx,
I do not know her case plan, but those would be the basics for the dirty house, etc. Again they are probably asking for a psych eval and her attorney may be tellling her no... not until she is cleared. Or she may not be doing it on her own.. Although it seems like she is trying to do everything else. There is no way to know. As I said before when the LE are involved no one will know what they know. But I do find it interesting that the judge will not allow unsupervised visits with mom. Does not make sense, if in fact she has evan made a little progress...... Maybe the court knows more. Another possibilty and I have had it happen on my cases is maybe they want her to try and help with "getting him" the dad. I have had the LE do a glass warrent where they get a court order to tap phone conversations with a perp and try to get a confession or slip them up. I have had the moms on my cases do this. We never know until after the fact what is truly happening in CINA cases unless it is your case...... Just a thought. MO. ML

 

[RiverRat]

Says: do not 'speculate’
By GEORGE MCGINN
Staff Writer

NORTH PORT -- “We now know that Dale (Fullwood) had no involvement, participation, or knowledge about the murder (of Coralrose Fullwood),” said Debra Salisbury, his custody attorney.

In press release sent late Monday, Salisbury wrote that DNA evidence has cleared Dale of any involvement in the death of his 6-year-old daughter, and there is “absolutely no evidence that Dale was the so-called other person involved” in her death on Sept. 17.

Salisbury would not elborate, but did confirm sending the release in a phone call. Her press release arrived 15 minutes after her office in Sarasota closed.

However, North Port Police Chief Terry Lewis said Salisbury's information about Fullwood being cleared is incorrect.

“Dale Fullwood has not been cleared, nor for that matter, anyone else,” Lewis said regarding the murder investigation. Coralrose was found dead two blocks away from her Calabash Lane home in North Port. Her siblings, ages 4 to 13, were removed from the home by Children and Family Services two days after Coralrose's death.

Lewis said he has not shared information with Salisbury. He's not aware of anyone on the investigation team talking about the case.

“If she got any information, it has not been from the North Port Police Department,” Lewis said.

Salisbury said she sent the press release to provide the public with "accurate information" about the case, and made it on behalf of Dale.

Salisbury said that public agencies (involved with the investigation) allowed people to speculate that Dale was somehow involved in the death of Coralrose.

“This was unfair, unjust, and compounded the family’s tragedy,” Salisbury stated. “The public agencies will have to answer why they did this, and why they have grossly exaggerated the criminal case pending against Dale.”

Salisbury did not clarify whether she meant the child case, or the murder investigation. She is his court-appointed child custody attorney.

Assistant Public Defender Adam Tebrugge is defending Fullwood on two criminal charges of possession of child , which is scheduled to go to trial July 16. This is a separate case from the custody hearing.

“The case is an ongoing matter before the courts, and it would be inappropriate for me to discuss it,” Lewis said.

Salisbury stated Dale’s child charges are not related to Coralrose's death. Lewis agreed saying that is still true.

Tebrugge said Salisbury’s case is moving on a fast track, and will be completed before his criminal case goes to trial.

“I do not know what information she may have,” Tebrugge said about Salisbury’s claims.

Tebrugge said he is not working with Salisbury on her dependency case. However, Tebrugge said that for “judicial economy,” both of them may sit and depose a witness who is involved in both cases.

“For example, if the same doctor is going to testify in both cases, we will do our depositions together, so the person only has to make one trip,” Tebrugge said.

Tebrugge said he has not yet done any of “these kinds” of depositions.

Salisbury also wanted to clarify what happened in court last week. She said it was reported that the parents lost a custody hearing last week.

“This is incorrect. The hearing last week did not involve any custody matters,” Salisbury wrote.

Salisbury wrote the hearing was a motion where the parents sought to dismiss the dependency proceeding as a sanction for the state’s failure to provide discovery information required by the court, she said.

Circuit Court Judge Charles Williams denied the request without say much. However, Williams did order the state to comply by Jan. 29 to produce all evidence and discovery.

“I urge the public to refrain from engaging in speculation and gossip,” Salisbury said. “Instead, the public should be urging its elected officials to focus its resources, reunite the Fullwood family, and swiftly find the person in our community who murdered Coralrose.”

Speculation has thrived for four months on blogs such as CourtTV and many other sites, where friends, neighbors, family members, and strangers discuss the case.

Companies selling goods such as comforters, tires, have placed the death of Coralrose on its Web sites so it will show up on Google Alerts.

A hearing about visitation is scheduled on Jan. 24, and the trial for custody has been set for Feb. 14.

“The parents are anxious to return their children to some degree of normalcy and reduce the trauma caused by their removal from their parents,” Salisbury said.

Two days after Coralrose’s body was found, a circuit court awarded temporary custody of Fullwood’s four other children to their grandparents, Saul and Doreen VanderWoude in Fort Myers. Dale, and his wife, Ellen-Beth, are living in separate houses.


http://www.sun-herald.com/breakingnews.cfm?id=1019

 

[RiverRat]

Amid a backdrop of murder, police, court fights and emotional stress, Saul and Doreen VanderWoude try to provide stability for four grandchildren whose lives have been upended by a horrific crime.

The problems are compounded, they said, by the strictures of both courts and the state’s Department of Children and Families, which limit what they can tell the children and severely restrict contact with their mother.

Life changed forever with an early morning phone call on Sept. 17. Their daughter, Ellen Fullwood, called and said one of her daughters, Coralrose, 6, had gone missing.

Neighbors and family members launched a desperate search for the child, whose battered body was found some four hours later by a dog walker.

“I hope I’m dead before I get another phone call like that,” said Doreen VanderWoude, 63, wiping away tears. “There is no way to describe the feeling.”

http://news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070123/NEWS0110/70123060/1075

 

[OneLostGrl]

OLG,
I agree and it was someone else that asked about the possibility of bi-polar and that is when I stated that you can have two or three diagnosis. As the lines are so very blurry and only through a complete (HONEST) psych eval with all the testing can you know for sure and evan then I have questioned them myself. Personally, and in my opinion I think she suffers from a personality disorder and possible other diagnosis. Just from what I have read going through the thread. I am going to assume Borderline personallity disorder is what you mean by BPD. And that is great if the medication helped, But my clients are usually more severe and medication is given for other diagnosis'. As far as bi-polar. Trust me I know, my sister, as I said has it and just moved in to our home again last night after a stay at the crisis center. Very sad.... But other people are bi-polar, on meds, and you would never know unless they told you because they go to work, have children, etc. My sis is a severe case. And then there are the ones in the middle of the spectrum as you pointed out.Also no one is more leary of the mental health community. After dealing with it for years professionally and personally I want to scream some days......MOP

Borderline personality disorder is indeed what I was refering to when I wrote BPD.

Knowledge is a wonderful tool but it saddens me to see someone, in the mental health field at that, discuss less or more "severe" cases in regard to ANY mental illness!
No one knows what goes on behind closed doors and ANY/ALL mental illness is severe!

My mother was in and out of Institutions since before I was born and now lives with me because she has yet to learn how to conform to the rules of society. Having grown up in it, never able to escape it, I assure you, my mothers illness is "severe".

While it is true that there are no medications approved *for* BPD, Psychiatric medications are indeed often used (in addition to Dbt) to treat the symptoms or comorbid disorders associated with BPD. Such as mood changes, impulsivity, irritability, Depression, Suicidal ideation, etc etc.

You are absolutely correct when you say people can have several different mental illness diagnoses. The term for it is comorbidity. Most people with mental illness have several different diagnoses.

My diagnoses are as follows, Ultra rapid cycling mixed episodes Bipolar Disorder with psychotic features.. OCD.. Panic/anxiety disorder as well as Tourettes syndrome.

I am sorry to hear of your sisters illness, it isn't easy for the sufferer OR the people that love them, but don't give up on her as there is help out there and EVERYONE with Bipolar CAN be regulated. Often it takes many years to find the right cocktail of medications. Sadly, many people with a DX of Bipolar choose to go off of their medications because of the side effects and the numbing of their creativity.

Bipolar disorder is a "severe" debilitating mental illness for anyone that has it but there is hope, with treatment and lifestyle changes any of us with Bipolar can live normal lives.. trust me, I know!

The mental health community is a double edged sword. Be leary.. but do not give up on it. It has been in my life since the day I was born and although it took many many years for the proper diagnoses and several more years for the right cocktail of meds. .. I thank the Lord for it everyday!

(I'm sorry for hijacking, everyone! I'll stop now LOL)

 

[mooselover]

Borderline personality disorder is indeed what I was refering to when I wrote BPD.

Knowledge is a wonderful tool but it saddens me to see someone, in the mental health field at that, discuss less or more "severe" cases in regard to ANY mental illness!
No one knows what goes on behind closed doors and ANY/ALL mental illness is severe!

My mother was in and out of Institutions since before I was born and now lives with me because she has yet to learn how to conform to the rules of society. Having grown up in it, never able to escape it, I assure you, my mothers illness is "severe".

While it is true that there are no medications approved *for* BPD, Psychiatric medications are indeed often used (in addition to DTB) to treat the symptoms or comorbid disorders associated with BPD. Such as mood changes, impulsivity, irritability, Depression, Suicidal ideation, etc etc.

You are absolutely correct when you say people can have several different mental illness diagnoses. The term for it is comorbidity. Most people with mental illness have several different diagnoses.

My diagnoses are as follows, Ultra rapid cycling, mixed episode, Bipolar with psychotic features.. OCD.. Panic/anxiety disorder as well as Tourettes syndrome.

I am sorry to hear of your sisters illness, it isn't an easy for the sufferer OR the people that love them, but don't give up on her as there is help out there and EVERYONE with Bipolar CAN be regulated. Often it takes many years to find the right cocktail of medications. Sadly, many people with a DX of Bipolar choose to go off of their medications because of the side effects and the numbing of their creativity.

Bipolar disorder is a "severe" dibilitating mental illness for anyone that has it but there is hope, with treatment and lifestyle changes anyone with Bipolar can live normal lives trust me, I know!

The mental health community is a double edged sword. Be leary.. but do not give up on it. It has been in my life since the day I was born and although it took many many years for the proper diagnoses and several more years for the right cocktail of meds. .. I thank the Lord for it everyday!

(I'm sorry for hijacking, everyone! I'll stop now LOL)

Hi OLG,
I am gong to hijack for a minute with you... And I will have to say I do disagree as to severity. There is and I know people that have never had to be hospitalized, gone off meds and take a very smalll amount of them. Felt different etc and was caught early enough. Of course it is hard, but there is also those like my sis that have struggled. Only gone off meds once in 17 years. This time was a manic fluke.. blood tests were A- OK etc: and thanks for your kind words. We are her family and I and my very supportive husband and kids would never let her be out there on her own. She needs advocating for and also just a sis and family.. ...Now a home and we are here. Thanks for all your insight: very interesting and informative... MO ML

 

[OneLostGrl]

Hi OLG,
I am gong to hijack for a minute with you... And I will have to say I do disagree as to severity. There is and I know people that have never had to be hospitalized, gone off meds and take a very smalll amount of them. Felt different etc and was caught early enough. Of course it is hard, but there is also those like my sis that have struggled. Only gone off meds once in 17 years. This time was a manic fluke.. blood tests were A- OK etc: and thanks for your kind words. We are her family and I and my very supportive husband and kids would never let her be out there on her own. She needs advocating for and also just a sis and family.. ...Now a home and we are here. Thanks for all your insight: very interesting and informative... MO ML

I just wanted to point out to you that there is more than 1 "type" of Bipolar.

Bipolar disorder is classified into four different types!

These are Bipolar I, Bipolar II, Cyclothymic Disorder, or Bipolar Disorder Not Otherwise Specified. They have varying degrees of symptoms and are not all treated the same way in terms of medications and therapies needed.