FL - Dawn Brancheau, Female Trainer Killed at Shamu Stadium

[raisincharlie]

Thank you Cuppy. I am sorry for the loss of Dawn, it was obvious watching her that she loved the whales.

 

[Sheromom]

I would like to say that first off I do not feel that animals should be captured or breed into captivity for our entertainment. However once an animal has been raised in captivity than you can not release it and expect it to survive, these are animals not people they do not have the brains to problem solve like we do, and thier natural instinct has been supressed.
The way to solve this problem is not capture or raise them in the first place. Wild animals should remain wild, they are not for our entertainment, and besides how would any of us like to spend our lives in a cage, or pool, JUST sayin.

I so totally agree. I know one person questioned how, as a person able to view these majestic animals in the wild, I could be willing to take the privilege of seeing them from someone else. But that poster lived in Florida. I could only think BUT YOU see dolphins dancing in your waters!!! I would never want them tamed for my viewing pleasure here. Don't all of us have something unusual and unique to the area we live in? Why can't we be satisfied and feel happy with what we do have? Why must we always be looking for more? Many boats filled with people go very close to the orcas here. They are highly intelligent and even put on displays for our pleasure- LOL! And they are NOT killers by nature- they are just huge dolphins and love people. They do not attack in the wild. Not even swimmers. I still have the same invitation to offer- if you MUST see an orca; rent a boat and come see me! Problem solved! And, by the way, could you return the favor and let me see you when I want to see a dolphin? I AM, I must say, very happy to see the passion on BOTH sides of the coin here. Passion shows a true love........perhaps misled, but a TRUE love nonetheless!

 

[Kimberlyd125]

New story. I was not aware there were only 20 or so visiters that witnessed this. This story also backs up some of the other accounts of the whale grabbing her ponytail and pulling her in.


http://www.wftv.com/news/22708936/detail.html

 

[Hopeful One]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but Radaronline has copies of the witness statements. I didn't realize that they had to pry his mouth open to get her arm out after they got her body from him. So sad.

http://www.radaronline.com/sites/default/files/seaworddocstiny.pdf

 

[jon_burrows]

You know, I was thinking about his today.

I have a bird, he lives in a cage. (he loves me dearly btw)
I have dogs, they live in my house. (they think I hung the moon)
My daughter has a fish, he lives in an aquarium. (I don't know what he thinks, lol)

None of these animals were intended to live in their current surroundings.

Does that make me a bad person?

Should I open my back door and let the bird fly away, let the dogs run away and take care of themselves, throw the fish in a pond?

Tili can not be released IMO. The best thing for him would be to live out his life right where he is IMO. He is getting the best medical care.
As to all the comments about him swimming in his own urine, the water is filtered and VERY clean. Is the ocean? In the ocean he swims in his and millions others urine.

JMO

I don't think Tilly should be dumped in the ocean to fend for himself.

Are you saying they filter urine? How does that work?

As far as whales swimming in the ocean with their urine and other urine...surely you're not comparing the urine of whales contained in tiny tanks to that of the vast ocean (the way nature intended) are you?

There is a big difference between domesticated animals and wild animals.

IN THE WILD . . . Whales and dolphins have evolved for millions of years as part of a complex web of marine life. They belong in the ocean, surrounded by other sea animals, along with the tides, waves, storms, sea floors and coastlines of their natural homes.

IN CAPTIVITY . . . Nothing in their evolution has prepared whales or dolphins for life in captivity. Everything is foreign - from the size and shape of the tanks, to the artificial social environment, to the textures, colors, sounds and lighting they experience, to the water they live in, which is often artificial sea water, chemically treated with chlorine. Sadly, the results is often abnormal behavior, aggression, injury, illness and premature death.

Lastly, no I don't think you're a bad person.

IMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I don't think Tilly should be dumped in the ocean to fend for himself.

Are you saying they filter urine? How does that work?

As far as whales swimming in the ocean with their urine and other urine...surely you're not comparing the urine of whales contained in tiny tanks to that of the vast ocean (the way nature intended) are you?

There is a big difference between domesticated animals and wild animals.

IN THE WILD . . . Whales and dolphins have evolved for millions of years as part of a complex web of marine life. They belong in the ocean, surrounded by other sea animals, along with the tides, waves, storms, sea floors and coastlines of their natural homes.

IN CAPTIVITY . . . Nothing in their evolution has prepared whales or dolphins for life in captivity. Everything is foreign - from the size and shape of the tanks, to the artificial social environment, to the textures, colors, sounds and lighting they experience, to the water they live in, which is often artificial sea water, chemically treated with chlorine. Sadly, the results is often abnormal behavior, aggression, injury, illness and premature death.

Lastly, no I don't think you're a bad person.

IMO

I think everybody knows the BEST place for any animal to be is in their own, natural habitat. I'm not saying they SHOULD be in tanks. But, they are. Now what? You can't just turn them lose.

IMO having orcas at Seaworld is not best for the whales, but they are there for a reason IMO. To educate people. Sure, it's entertaining to watch an enourmous, beautiful creature rise from the water and jump and turn. It's breath taking actually.

When you have a small number to use to educate, it makes people who would not know about them understand and appreciate them. IMO that makes for a better world. Not too long ago, and still in some areas, various types of whales were hunted. You might say that the normal person who has never seen a whale or felt the feeling of their pure magic would care less about that right? So, by seeing them, learning about them, it makes us normal people who would never learn about them otherwise appreciate them more.

I guess it's wrong to sacrifice a few to save thousands. But, that is sometimes how life is.

I commend Seaworld for all they have done to educate people and save various animals by research and recovery.

This was a horrific thing that happened. I agree. But, it's part of it.

ETA: RED by me...thank you for that. lol

 

[kgeaux]

As far as I understand, the man died from combination of hypothermia and drowning.
The first trainer was killed by drowning. Tilikum was one of the three whales that killed her. She fell in and was not allowed to leave the pool. There are witnesses who saw it.
The last trainer was killed by drowning and physical trauma. She couldn't leave the pool. There are witnesses who saw it.
Do you see the pattern?
It appears to me that once the person is in the pool (either falls, gets in the pool by himself, or pulled in by the whale) the whale doesn't let the person to get out.
But of course you can think whatever it is you want to think-there are no witnesses to the man's demise, after all.

I'll see if I can find the link, but the autopsy apparently listed hypothermia as the cause of death....no mention of drowning.


http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/n...childhood-much-like-seaworld-show-283615.html

In 1999, the body of a naked man was found draped over Tilikum at SeaWorld in Orlando. Officials said the man had stayed in the park after closing and apparently fell into the whale tank. An autopsy found he died of hypothermia. Officials also said it appeared Tilikum bit the man.

While others have postulated that the man suffered hypothermia and then drowned, the autopsy names the cause of his death as hypothermia with no mention of drowning.

There was nothing of the sort determined at the time of the incident because no one can ask the whale what it is that he was thinking when he killed that lady.

I believe you misread the post Jenny. My statement was in reference to the man who was found on Tilly's back, not in reference to any lady's death.

 

[Melly53]

I don't go to any of these kinds of places to be entertained, I go to learn that which I know nothing of. To marvel at the majesty of the animal world. Since I don't care to jump in the ocean to watch them up close and personal, I am quite thankful there are places to go to see their beauty. My kids are as well.

Thank you raisincharlie for pointing out that many of us go for the educational value and not just for entertainment. I have taken my son to SeaLand a few times and hope one day to take my grandchildren (when I have some). Children need to be allowed to see animals especially those that are threatened and/or endangered. People do not care for that which they do not know. JMO

 

[Melly53]

I don't think Tilly should be dumped in the ocean to fend for himself.

Are you saying they filter urine? How does that work?

As far as whales swimming in the ocean with their urine and other urine...surely you're not comparing the urine of whales contained in tiny tanks to that of the vast ocean (the way nature intended) are you?

There is a big difference between domesticated animals and wild animals.

IN THE WILD . . . Whales and dolphins have evolved for millions of years as part of a complex web of marine life. They belong in the ocean, surrounded by other sea animals, along with the tides, waves, storms, sea floors and coastlines of their natural homes.

IN CAPTIVITY . . . Nothing in their evolution has prepared whales or dolphins for life in captivity. Everything is foreign - from the size and shape of the tanks, to the artificial social environment, to the textures, colors, sounds and lighting they experience, to the water they live in, which is often artificial sea water, chemically treated with chlorine. Sadly, the results is often abnormal behavior, aggression, injury, illness and premature death.

Lastly, no I don't think you're a bad person.

IMO

If you have ever had a salt water aquarium or even a fresh water one for that matter then you would know that chlorine and other toxins must be filter out of the water in order for them to live in it. With our advances in science, artificial sea water is equal to real sea water just without all the crap in it that is polluting the oceans of the world and killing off sea life. The water in their tanks is constantly being filtered to ensure the health and well being of the animals. Atlanta has an 8.1 million gallon aquarium (1.1 million more than SeaWorld when it was originally built) which can filter ALL of the water in 60 minutes. I feel sure that SeaWorld has a similar capability. JMO

 

[jon_burrows]

If you have ever had a salt water aquarium or even a fresh water one for that matter then you would know that chlorine and other toxins must be filter out of the water in order for them to live in it. With our advances in science, artificial sea water is equal to real sea water just without all the crap in it that is polluting the oceans of the world and killing off sea life. The water in their tanks is constantly being filtered to ensure the health and well being of the animals. Atlanta has an 8.1 million gallon aquarium (1.1 million more than SeaWorld when it was originally built) which can filter ALL of the water in 60 minutes. I feel sure that SeaWorld has a similar capability. JMO

I have a pool, I'm fully aware of the purpose of chlorine. The poster said the urine was filtered, that is different than being blasted with chemicals. Could you point me to a link that supports the notion that living in a chemical soup is the same as sea water? I've found the opposite but I'd like to take a look at your link.

Someone posted an aerial video of the whales at SeaWorld. It's sad to see them floating there doing nothing but waiting to perform their next set of tricks for food. You can quote the total gallons but look at them...does that look big enough to you? Can you imagine what their life is like?

If SeaWorld's environment is so great for these animals then why is their life cut short? It's unusual for a captive whale to even make it to the average age of a wild whale.

 

[jjenny]

I'll see if I can find the link, but the autopsy apparently listed hypothermia as the cause of death....no mention of drowning.


http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/n...childhood-much-like-seaworld-show-283615.html

In 1999, the body of a naked man was found draped over Tilikum at SeaWorld in Orlando. Officials said the man had stayed in the park after closing and apparently fell into the whale tank. An autopsy found he died of hypothermia. Officials also said it appeared Tilikum bit the man.

While others have postulated that the man suffered hypothermia and then drowned, the autopsy names the cause of his death as hypothermia with no mention of drowning.




I believe you misread the post Jenny. My statement was in reference to the man who was found on Tilly's back, not in reference to any lady's death.

You don't know what the whale was thinking or doing in the incident with the man either.
The first trainer fell into the pool, was not allowed to get out, and drowned.
Dawn was pulled into the pool, was not allowed to get out, was bitten, and died from drowning and trauma.
I don't think it's that far fetched to imagine that if the man either fell, jumped, or was pulled into the pool, he was not allowed to get out,and as a result died of hypothermia.
By the way, the article in your links states trainers were allowed to work with Tilikum from a partially submerged area of the pool, which is what Dawn was doing.
Yet she is being blamed for her death.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

As far as I understand, the man died from combination of hypothermia and drowning.
The first trainer was killed by drowning. Tilikum was one of the three whales that killed her. She fell in and was not allowed to leave the pool. There are witnesses who saw it.
The last trainer was killed by drowning and physical trauma. She couldn't leave the pool. There are witnesses who saw it.
Do you see the pattern?
It appears to me that once the person is in the pool (either falls, gets in the pool by himself, or pulled in by the whale) the whale doesn't let the person to get out.
But of course you can think whatever it is you want to think-there are no witnesses to the man's demise, after all.

And why are you ignoring the fact that the first man had ABSOLUTLY NO BUSINESS being in there WHATSOEVER? We have pointed this out to you several times, and you still want to blame the whale for his death! Its not the whales fault that the man died of hypothermia, or drowning! The whale did not point a gun at his head and make him TRESPASS/BREAK THE LAW, by entering the enclosure AFTER BUSINESS HOURS, when he knew damn well that he was not to enter said enclosure!!

People need to take responsibility for THEIR actions, rather then try to pass the buck. Thats the trouble with todays society!!

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

I don't think it's that far fetched to imagine that if the man either fell, jumped, or was pulled into the pool, he was not allowed to get out,and as a result died of hypothermia.

REGARDLESS whether this man fell, jumped or ran in he had NO BUSINESS being there!! He was committing a crime and therefore his death does NOT count!! I personally think that he got what was coming to him. I know it sounds cruel, but I have no sympathy for someone knowingly breaking the law, and then others trying to blame someone else for the consequences!!

 

[jon_burrows]

REGARDLESS whether this man fell, jumped or ran in he had NO BUSINESS being there!! He was committing a crime and therefore his death does NOT count!! I personally think that he got what was coming to him. I know it sounds cruel, but I have no sympathy for someone knowingly breaking the law, and then others trying to blame someone else for the consequences!!

Some people mistakenly think captive whales won't attack. They sit through a show and see the trainers step on them, hang on their fins as well as stand on them, put their feet on their closed mouths while they shoot them up in the air, high five each other while standing on their mouths, kiss them, hug them, etc.

The man committed a crime no doubt but I think the SeaWorld show gives the impression that they won't kill humans. Hopefully they don't do it anymore but they used to pick a child out of the audience then sit the child on the whale's back for a picture. I don't think parents had any idea the danger they were putting their child in.

IMO

 

[jon_burrows]

PETA wrote a letter to the CEO, it's here for those who want to take a look:

http://www.peta.org/mc/NewsItem.asp?id=11822

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Some people mistakenly think captive whales won't attack. They sit through a show and see the trainers step on them, hang on their fins as well as stand on them, put their feet on their closed mouths while they shoot them up in the air, high five each other while standing on their mouths, kiss them, hug them, etc.

The man committed a crime no doubt but I think the SeaWorld show gives the impression that they won't kill humans. Hopefully they don't do it anymore but they used to pick a child out of the audience then sit the child on the whale's back for a picture. I don't think parents had any idea the danger they were putting their child in.

IMO

I understand what you are saying. HOWEVER regardless whether he thought the whale would not kill, or whether he thought the whale would keel over and die. He should NOT have been in there in the first place!! It was AFTER HOURS, and he had absolutly NO BUSINESS being in there! I don't know how much clearer I can make it, This man regardless whether he died because of hypothermia, or drowing, died because of his OWN stupid actions.

He is to blame, NOT the whale!

 

[LinasK]

Some people mistakenly think captive whales won't attack. They sit through a show and see the trainers step on them, hang on their fins as well as stand on them, put their feet on their closed mouths while they shoot them up in the air, high five each other while standing on their mouths, kiss them, hug them, etc.

The man committed a crime no doubt but I think the SeaWorld show gives the impression that they won't kill humans. Hopefully they don't do it anymore but they used to pick a child out of the audience then sit the child on the whale's back for a picture. I don't think parents had any idea the danger they were putting their child in.

IMO

I remember those days, they also used to let a child put a fish in the whales mouth, or touch it's tongue as part of the show...

 

[jjenny]

I understand what you are saying. HOWEVER regardless whether he thought the whale would not kill, or whether he thought the whale would keel over and die. He should NOT have been in there in the first place!! It was AFTER HOURS, and he had absolutly NO BUSINESS being in there! I don't know how much clearer I can make it, This man regardless whether he died because of hypothermia, or drowing, died because of his OWN stupid actions.

He is to blame, NOT the whale!

Whether it's man eating tiger, or a killer whale, there will be people defending it to no end. It didn't mean it, it was playing, it's not it's fault... etc, etc...
It doesn't really make a difference-whale isn't going on trial.
It just amazes me that Sea World insists on keeping it after it has been involved with 3 deaths.
Seems rather clear this whale is very dangerous, and one would think Sea World should have known it.
Yet apparently at least according to one article the trainers were allowed to be on a shallow deck with this whale in the pool.
Just as Dawn was doing.
It's easy to blame it on her ponytail, but I fail to see why exactly whale couldn't have grabbed on her arm or leg if it wanted to. In fact some witnesses believed that's what it did.
To me, it seems like this could have been predicted.

 

[JBean]

Whether it's man eating tiger, or a killer whale, there will be people defending it to no end. It didn't mean it, it was playing, it's not it's fault... etc, etc...
It doesn't really make a difference-whale isn't going on trial.
It just amazes me that Sea World insists on keeping it after it has been involved with 3 deaths.
Seems rather clear this whale is very dangerous, and one would think Sea World should have known it.
Yet apparently at least according to one article the trainers were allowed to be on a shallow deck with this whale in the pool.
Just as Dawn was doing.
It's easy to blame it on her ponytail, but I fail to see why exactly whale couldn't have grabbed on her arm or leg if it wanted to. In fact some witnesses believed that's what it did.
To me, it seems like this could have been predicted.

I know the protocols until 2008 did not allow trainers to lie down on that bottom shelf as she was doing. Has it been determined that this protocol was changed? I agree that this is predictable.IMO certain procedures are in place specifically to minimize the risk of these potentially dangerous behaviors.

 

[Sheromom]

Some people mistakenly think captive whales won't attack. They sit through a show and see the trainers step on them, hang on their fins as well as stand on them, put their feet on their closed mouths while they shoot them up in the air, high five each other while standing on their mouths, kiss them, hug them, etc.

The man committed a crime no doubt but I think the SeaWorld show gives the impression that they won't kill humans. Hopefully they don't do it anymore but they used to pick a child out of the audience then sit the child on the whale's back for a picture. I don't think parents had any idea the danger they were putting their child in.

IMO

They don't kill people; not under NORMAL circumstances.