FL - Former President Donald Trump indicted, 40 counts to classified documents and obstruction of justice, June 2023, Trial May 2024

[JennieM]

Trump indictment is stress test for US democracy as Republicans rally round​

Far from disowning a former president who played fast and loose with national security and the lives of Americans overseas, Republicans rallied around him with renewed zeal. They falsely asserted that Joe Biden was seeking to jail his political opponent. They stepped up efforts to turn the tables by accusing Biden of a bribery scandal without providing evidence. And they used incendiary language that evoked political violence.

“We have now reached a war phase,” tweeted Andy Biggs, a Republican from Arizona who sits on the House of Representatives’ judiciary committee. “Eye for an eye.”

Republican Congressman Clay Higgins of Louisiana used what appeared to be military code words when he wrote on Twitter: “Buckle up. 1/50K know your bridges. Rock steady calm. That is all.”

[...]

The case does not bar Trump from campaigning or taking office if he were to win the election in November 2024. Legal experts say there would be no basis to block his swearing-in even if he were convicted and sent to prison. As president, Trump could potentially try to pardon himself, a legal move that would be controversial and unprecedented.

Such possibilities pose the latest, perhaps the ultimate, stress test for American democracy after years in which Trump sought to undermine institutions, foreign powers meddled in elections, misinformation flooded the political discourse and many Republicans embraced anti-democratic lies and conspiracy theories.

[...]

There are additional forces threatening to tear at the legal, political and social fabric of the nation during an election that Trump has dubbed “the final battle”. YouTube recently announced that it will no longer remove content that promotes false claims about US elections. Elon Musk’s ownership of Twitter and the rise of artificial intelligence pose further misinformation risks.

Meanwhile, with more than 1,000 people having been charged in relation to the January 6 riot, a recent survey by the University of Chicago found that an estimated 12 million American adults, or 4.4% of the population, believe that violence is justified to restore Trump to the White House. There are more guns in the US than people and, as of late May, there had been more than 260 mass shootings this year, according to the Gun Violence Archive.

Bardella, now a Democratic strategist, warned: “We know that Donald Trump’s supporters are capable of fomenting violence when they don’t get their way so I do think that America needs to prepare for the worst possible outcome, which is Donald Trump once again fomenting violence. That right there is the illustration of what happens when someone isn’t held accountable already. They’ll just do it again and again and again.”

Trump indictment is stress test for US democracy as Republicans rally round

Partisan politics and rule of law on collision course after former president and current candidate charged on 37 federal counts

www.theguardian.com

 

[Emma Peel]

So ... the heat is on Judge Aileen Cannon of the Federalist Society once again.
Did she learn anything getting twice slapped and "counseled" by her equally conservative Appellate Court last round?
Will Special Counsel Smith's team seek Cannon's recusal citing her need for disciplinary spankings for her prejudice towards Trump earlier in this case?
Stay tuned.
JMO

Trump-appointed judge whose past Mar-a-Lago rulings sparked criticism is initially assigned to federal case


Legal experts react after Trump-appointed judge Aileen Cannon assigned to Mar-a-Lago case

Trump case assigned to judge who faced criticism over her ruling in his favor in Mar-a-Lago search

Under federal law, if prosecutors reasonably believe Cannon cannot be fair, they could file an affidavit asking that Cannon recuse herself from the case, arguing that she has a personal bias or prejudice. If she finds the affidavit is “sufficient,” she must step down. She also must step down if it could be argued that her “impartiality might reasonably be questioned” by the parties or the public.

Given the reversal of Cannon's ruling last year, “there already appears to be a fair ground for disqualification because the public might reasonably question her impartiality, even absent an evidentiary basis for alleging or finding personal bias or prejudice," said University of Miami law professor Anthony Alfieri, the founding director of its Center for Ethics and Public Service.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Trump vows to stay in the race even if convicted

“I’ll never leave,” he tells POLITICO.

www.politico.com

Trump in Georgia, hinting at violence: “Our people are angry.” “And sometimes you need strength. You have to have strength, more than just normal strength. And we have to get a change because we’re not going to have a country left.”

Trump Calls Special Counsel A ‘Thug’ And ‘Deranged’ In First Post-Indictment Appearance

Trump Saturday made his first campaign stops after his indictment on 37 counts of illegally retaining and conspiring to hide secret documents from authorities.

www.huffpost.com

I'm waiting until he steps over the line and is charged with inciting violence. IMO he should have been charged with that very thing on Jan. 6th.

 

[Niner]

Boy lots to read here this morning...

Walt Nauta ought to know by now that T is not going to stand by him. T is going to blame the whole thing on his valet. If Maura continues to stand by T, then Maura is going to prison for a very long time. I would feel sorry for him, except he has had plenty of time to learn this lesson. Maura will deserve what he gets.

I am lost here - who is "Maura" ? Is that Nauta's nickname?

I have a question - is Nauta going to appear on Tuesday also for his arraignment or just Trump? If anyone knows? TIA!

I'm waiting until he steps over the line and is charged with inciting violence. IMO he should have been charged with that very thing on Jan. 6th.

That case is still "pending" - from my notes on the latest on that one:

4/29/23 Update: Pence's appearance comes as Smith is believed to be wrapping up his investigation & possibly preparing to indict Trump on charges that could include obstruction of an official proceeding, conspiracy to defraud the United States and insurrection.
5/2/23 Update: As they investigate Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election, federal prosecutors have also been drilling down on whether Trump & a range of political aides knew that he had lost the race but still raised money off claims that they were fighting widespread fraud in the vote results, according to three people familiar with the matter. Led by the special counsel Jack Smith, prosecutors are trying to determine whether Trump & his aides violated federal wire fraud statutes as they raised as much as $250 million through a political action committee by saying they needed the money to fight to reverse election fraud even though they had been told repeatedly that there was no evidence to back up those fraud claims. The prosecutors are looking at the inner workings of the committee, Save America PAC & at the Trump campaign’s efforts to prove its baseless case that Trump had been cheated out of victory.


BBC ran his speech at that Georgia thing last night - I had to turn it off....

 

[Lilibet]

I am lost here - who is "Maura" ? Is that Nauta's nickname?

I have a question - is Nauta going to appear on Tuesday also for his arraignment or just Trump? If anyone knows? TIA!

I believe “Maura” was a spellcheck version of Nauta.

My understanding is that Nauta is also being arraigned on Tuesday.

https://wapo.st/45Vx2aM

According to court records, both Nauta and Trump have been summoned to appear Tuesday at 3 p.m.

 

[Niner]

I believe “Maura” was a spellcheck version of Nauta.

My understanding is that Nauta is also being arraigned on Tuesday.

https://wapo.st/45Vx2aM

According to court records, both Nauta and Trump have been summoned to appear Tuesday at 3 p.m.

LOL!

okay....

And thanks for the info on Nauta's appearance also.

And Trump gets to celebrate his 77th birthday the next day....

 

[JerseyGirl]

United States v Donald J Trump and Waltine Nauta: Read the Actual Indictment : Indybay

"I don't want anybody looking through my boxes" — Trump to his attorneys on May 23, 2022

www.indybay.org

TRUMP's Production of 15 Cardboard Boxes to the National Archives and Records Administration

Beginning in May 2021, the National Archives and Records Administration ("NARA"), which was responsible for archiving presidential records, repeatedly demanded that TRUMP turn over presidential records that he had kept after his presidency. On multiple occasions, beginning in June, NARA warned TRUMP through his representatives that if he did not comply, it would refer the matter of the missing records to the Department of Justice.

Between November 2021 and January 2022, NAUTA and Trump Employee 2 — at TRUMP's direction — brought boxes from the Storage Room to TRUMP's residence for TRUMP to review.

On November 12, 2021, Trump Employee 2 provided TRUMP a photograph of his boxes in the Storage Room by taping it to one of the boxes that Trump Employee 2 had placed in TRUMP's residence. Trump Employee 2 provided TRUMP the photograph so that TRUMP could see how many of his boxes were stored in the Storage Room. The photograph, shown below, depicted a wall of the Storage Room against which dozens of TRUMP' s boxes were stacked.

On November 17, 2021, NAUTA texted Trump Employee 2 about the photograph Trump Employee 2 had provided to TRUMP, stating, "He mentioned about a picture of the 'boxes' he wants me to see it?" Trump Employee 2 replied, "Calling you shortly."

On November 25, 2021, Trump Employee 2 texted NAUTA about TRUMP's review of the contents of his boxes, asking, "Has h~ mentioned boxes to you? I delivered some, but I think he may need more. Could you ask if he'd like more in pine hall?" Pine Hall was an entry room in TRUMP's residence. NAUTA replied in three successive text messages:

Nothing about boxes yet

He has one he's working on in pine hall

Knocked out 2 boxes yesterday

On November 29, 2021, Trump Employee 2 texted NAUTA, asking, "Next you are on property (no rush) could you help me bring 4 more boxes up?". NAUTA replied, "Yes!! Of course."

On December 29, 2021, Trump Employee 2 texted a TRUMP representative who was in contact with NARA ("Trump Representative l "), "box answer will be wrenched out of him today, promise!" The next day, Trump Representative 1 replied in two successive text messages:

Hey - Just checking on Boxes ...

would love to have a number to them today

Trump Employee 2 spoke to TRUMP and then responded a few hours later in two successive text messages:

12

Is his number

On January 13, 2022, NAUTA ltexted Trump Employee 2 about TRUMP's "tracking" of boxes, stating, "He's tracking the boxes, more to follow today on whether he wants to go through more today or tomorrow." Trump Employee 2 replied, "Thank you!"

On January 15, 2022, NAUTA sent Trump Employee 2 four successive text messages:

One thing he asked

Was for new covers for the boxes, for Monday m.

Morning

*can we get new box covers before giving these to them on Monday? They have too much writing on them . .! marked too much

Trump Employee 2 replied, "Yes, I will get that!"

On January 17, 2022, Trump Employee 2 and NAUTA gathered 15 boxes from TRUMP's residence, loaded the boxes in NAUTA's car, and took them to a commercial truck for delivery to NARA.

When interviewed by the FBI in May 2022 regarding the location and movement of boxes before the production to NARA, NAUTA made false and misleading statements as set forth in Count 38 of this Indictment, including:

a. falsely stating that he was not aware of TRUMP's boxes being brought to TRUMP's residence for his review before TRUMP provided 15 boxes to NARA in January 2022;

b. falsely stating that he did not know how the boxes that he and Trump Employee 2 brought from TRUMP's residence to the commercial truck for delivery to NARA on January 17, 2022, had gotten to the residence; and

c. when asked whether he knew where TRUMP' s boxes had been stored, before they were in TRUMP's residence and whether they had been in a secure or locked location, NAUTA falsely responded, "I wish, I wish I could tell you. I don't know. I don't-I honestly just don't know."

When the 15 boxes that TRUMP had provided reached NARA in January 2022, NARA reviewed the contents and determined that 14 of the boxes contained documents with classification markings. Specifically, as the FBI later determined, the boxes contained 197 documents with classification markings, of which 98 were marked "SECRET," 30 were marked "TOP SECRET," and the remainder were marked "CONFIDENTIAL." Some of those documents also contained SCI and SAP markings.

On February 9, 2022, NARA referred the discovery of classified documents in TRUMP's boxes to the Department of Justice for investigation.

The FBI and Grand Jury Investigations

On March 30, 2022, the FBI opened a criminal investigation.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Pennsylvania Man Pleads Guilty to Threats Against FBI - MyChesCo

PITTSBURGH, PA — A resident of Mercer, Pennsylvania, pleaded guilty in federal court to charges of interstate threats and influencing or retaliating against a federal officer by threat, announced Acting …

www.mychesco.com

A resident of Mercer, Pennsylvania, pleaded guilty in federal court to charges of interstate threats and influencing or retaliating against a federal officer by threat.

Adam Bies, age 47, pleaded guilty Thursday to fourteen counts.

Bies made threats to murder, injure, and assault agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in the days following the FBI’s search of former President Donald Trump’s home in Florida on August 8, 2022, pursuant to a federal search warrant.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Well, we are all going to see how crooked Florida is going to be playing this situation.
IMO, I just can't trust any lawyers, judges, and governor. Will Cannon recuse? I dunno, I really think she might be willing to put tRump ahead of her whole career.

The Ploy to Stop Feds From Using Trump’s Lawyer Against Him

Lawyer Evan Corcoran is a key piece of the puzzle.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[sds71]

@MacFarlaneNews

Former Atty General William Barr speaking to FOX about Trump indictment, “If even half of it is true, he’s toast”

Barr says the indictment alleges “very egregious obstruction” and adds “this whole thing came about because of reckless conduct” by Trump

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Former Atty General William Barr speaking to FOX about Trump indictment, “If even half of it is true, he’s toast”

Ooh Trump won't like him saying that...

 

[Stunned]

United States v Donald J Trump and Waltine Nauta: Read the Actual Indictment : Indybay

"I don't want anybody looking through my boxes" — Trump to his attorneys on May 23, 2022

www.indybay.org

TRUMP's Production of 15 Cardboard Boxes to the National Archives and Records Administration

Beginning in May 2021, the National Archives and Records Administration ("NARA"), which was responsible for archiving presidential records, repeatedly demanded that TRUMP turn over presidential records that he had kept after his presidency. On multiple occasions, beginning in June, NARA warned TRUMP through his representatives that if he did not comply, it would refer the matter of the missing records to the Department of Justice.

Between November 2021 and January 2022, NAUTA and Trump Employee 2 — at TRUMP's direction — brought boxes from the Storage Room to TRUMP's residence for TRUMP to review.

On November 12, 2021, Trump Employee 2 provided TRUMP a photograph of his boxes in the Storage Room by taping it to one of the boxes that Trump Employee 2 had placed in TRUMP's residence. Trump Employee 2 provided TRUMP the photograph so that TRUMP could see how many of his boxes were stored in the Storage Room. The photograph, shown below, depicted a wall of the Storage Room against which dozens of TRUMP' s boxes were stacked.

On November 17, 2021, NAUTA texted Trump Employee 2 about the photograph Trump Employee 2 had provided to TRUMP, stating, "He mentioned about a picture of the 'boxes' he wants me to see it?" Trump Employee 2 replied, "Calling you shortly."

On November 25, 2021, Trump Employee 2 texted NAUTA about TRUMP's review of the contents of his boxes, asking, "Has h~ mentioned boxes to you? I delivered some, but I think he may need more. Could you ask if he'd like more in pine hall?" Pine Hall was an entry room in TRUMP's residence. NAUTA replied in three successive text messages:

Nothing about boxes yet

He has one he's working on in pine hall

Knocked out 2 boxes yesterday

On November 29, 2021, Trump Employee 2 texted NAUTA, asking, "Next you are on property (no rush) could you help me bring 4 more boxes up?". NAUTA replied, "Yes!! Of course."

On December 29, 2021, Trump Employee 2 texted a TRUMP representative who was in contact with NARA ("Trump Representative l "), "box answer will be wrenched out of him today, promise!" The next day, Trump Representative 1 replied in two successive text messages:

Hey - Just checking on Boxes ...

would love to have a number to them today

Trump Employee 2 spoke to TRUMP and then responded a few hours later in two successive text messages:

12

Is his number

On January 13, 2022, NAUTA ltexted Trump Employee 2 about TRUMP's "tracking" of boxes, stating, "He's tracking the boxes, more to follow today on whether he wants to go through more today or tomorrow." Trump Employee 2 replied, "Thank you!"

On January 15, 2022, NAUTA sent Trump Employee 2 four successive text messages:

One thing he asked

Was for new covers for the boxes, for Monday m.

Morning

*can we get new box covers before giving these to them on Monday? They have too much writing on them . .! marked too much

Trump Employee 2 replied, "Yes, I will get that!"

On January 17, 2022, Trump Employee 2 and NAUTA gathered 15 boxes from TRUMP's residence, loaded the boxes in NAUTA's car, and took them to a commercial truck for delivery to NARA.

When interviewed by the FBI in May 2022 regarding the location and movement of boxes before the production to NARA, NAUTA made false and misleading statements as set forth in Count 38 of this Indictment, including:

a. falsely stating that he was not aware of TRUMP's boxes being brought to TRUMP's residence for his review before TRUMP provided 15 boxes to NARA in January 2022;

b. falsely stating that he did not know how the boxes that he and Trump Employee 2 brought from TRUMP's residence to the commercial truck for delivery to NARA on January 17, 2022, had gotten to the residence; and

c. when asked whether he knew where TRUMP' s boxes had been stored, before they were in TRUMP's residence and whether they had been in a secure or locked location, NAUTA falsely responded, "I wish, I wish I could tell you. I don't know. I don't-I honestly just don't know."

When the 15 boxes that TRUMP had provided reached NARA in January 2022, NARA reviewed the contents and determined that 14 of the boxes contained documents with classification markings. Specifically, as the FBI later determined, the boxes contained 197 documents with classification markings, of which 98 were marked "SECRET," 30 were marked "TOP SECRET," and the remainder were marked "CONFIDENTIAL." Some of those documents also contained SCI and SAP markings.

On February 9, 2022, NARA referred the discovery of classified documents in TRUMP's boxes to the Department of Justice for investigation.

The FBI and Grand Jury Investigations

On March 30, 2022, the FBI opened a criminal investigation.

This certainty looks like a duck to me!

 

[meanmaryjean]

If you don't want to read the entire indictment- you can now listen to it!

https://prosecuting-donald-trump.simplecast.com/episodes/the-full-indictment-read-by-ali-velshi

 

[arielilane]

‘I will never be detained’: Trump defiant in first speech since federal indictment​

Donald Trump delivered his first public address following the announcement of his federal indictment this week in Columbus, Georgia, on Saturday.

The former president took the stage at the state Republican convention in Georgia in the afternoon where he lashed out against the Department of Justice, the FBI and the Biden administration, called his recent indictment “a travesty of justice” and repeated unsupported conspiratorial claims that Joe Biden had stashed secret documents in the Chinatown neighborhood of Washington DC.

[...]

He went on to launch a tirade against federal officials, saying, “Now the Marxist left is once again using the same corrupt DoJ [justice department] and the same corrupt FBI, and the attorney general and the local district attorneys to interfere … They’re cheating. They’re crooked. They’re corrupt. These criminals cannot be rewarded. They must be defeated. You have to defeat them.

“Because in the end, they’re not coming after me. They’re coming after you and I’m just standing in their way,” he said.

[...]

He went on to add that “the only good thing about [the indictment] is it’s driven my poll numbers way up”.

Trump repeated his baseless attacks against his former opponent Hillary Clinton, whom the state department investigated for several years over her use of private email before it found “no persuasive evidence of … deliberate mishandling of classified documents”.

He also lashed out at Joe Biden over the classified documents from his time as vice-president and senator which were found in his office in Washington and his Delaware home.

“Nothing happened to Crooked Joe with all that … He has so many classified documents … This is a sick nest of people that needs to be cleaned out immediately,” said Trump as the crowd cheered fervently.

Trump also brought up his former vice-president and now presidential opponent Mike Pence, who also had marked documents discovered in his Indiana home.

“They looked at Mike Pence. He had classified documents, no problem,” said Trump.

While Biden and Pence turned over the marked documents as soon as they were discovered and allowed their lawyers to look through their properties, Trump has been accused of deliberately concealing boxes of records from his attorney, the FBI and the grand jury, according to the latest indictment.

Trump’s two speeches had been planned before the justice department indicted him on Thursday evening with 37 criminal charges regarding his alleged illegal retention of classified government documents after leaving office in 2021.

[...]

Trump, who has repeatedly maintained his innocence, lashed out against the latest indictment on Thursday night. In a video released on his social media platform Truth Social, the GOP’s most popular presidential candidate said, “It is election interference at the highest level … I’m an innocent man, I’m an innocent person … we’ll fight this out.”

He then turned to his supporters for money, writing in an email on Friday morning, “Please make a contribution to peacefully DEFEND our movement from the never-ending witch hunts – and together, even during these darkest of times, we will prove that our movement is truly UNBREAKABLE.”

Trump was slated to speak again on Saturday evening at a Republican event in North Carolina. He is expected to appear in a federal court in Miami on Tuesday and may face prison if convicted.

‘I will never be detained’: Trump defiant in first speech since federal indictment

Former president, who faces 37 charges related to retention of secret documents, addresses Republican conventions in Georgia and North Carolina

www.theguardian.com

This part of the article is so comical, among some of the other paragraphs posted. moo

“We got to stand up to the … radical left Democrats, their lawless partisan prosecutors … Every time I fly over a blue state, I get a subpoena,” said Trump at the onset of the meandering speech that attempted to bridge his legal troubles with campaign promises.

“I’ve put everything on the line and I will never yield. I will never be detained. I will never stop fighting for you,” he added.

 

[PommyMommy]

JUN 11, 2023

Pluralities of Americans support second Trump indictment, say charges are politically motivated: POLL

While a plurality of Americans supports the second Trump indictment, a familiar partisan divide has reemerged, polling shows.

abcnews.go.com

[...]

Nearly half -- 48% -- of Americans think Trump should have been charged in this case, whereas 35% think he should not have been and 17% saying they do not know, per the ABC News/Ipsos poll conducted using Ipsos' KnowledgePanel.

Not surprisingly, an overwhelming majority (86%) of self-identified Democrats believe the former president should have been charged. On the other hand, Republicans remain mostly loyal to Trump, with two in three (67%) saying the former president and current frontrunner for the Republican nomination should not have been charged. Independents are more divided, with 45% believing he should have been charged, a third saying he should not have been, and 22% saying they don't know.

Overall, a solid majority of over three in five Americans find the charges either very (42%) or somewhat serious (19%), while only 28% of the public say it's not too serious or not serious at all. One in ten say they don't know. And party splits are expectedly polarized, with about nine in 10 Democrats saying the charges are very or somewhat serious while half of Republicans find them to be not too serious or not serious at all. A majority of independents (63%) find the charges very or somewhat serious, while 38% say they are not too serious or not serious at all.

[...]

 

[JennieM]

This part of the article is so comical, among some of the other paragraphs posted. moo

“We got to stand up to the … radical left Democrats, their lawless partisan prosecutors … Every time I fly over a blue state, I get a subpoena,” said Trump at the onset of the meandering speech that attempted to bridge his legal troubles with campaign promises.

“I’ve put everything on the line and I will never yield. I will never be detained. I will never stop fighting for you,” he added.

Of course, it's not about him saving his ......... It's for the good of the people. What an altruistic human being he is. Truly.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

It's mind boggling that more don't see how serious it is.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

“I’ve put everything on the line

He's put his followers money on the line.

 

[PommyMommy]

JUN 11, 2023

CBS News Poll: After Trump indictment, most see security risk, but Republicans see politics

Trump still easily leads GOP field; voters say no change in view

www.cbsnews.com

Republican primary voters say they're far more concerned that Donald Trump's indictment is politically motivated than his alleged conduct being a national security risk – and there's no evidence it's hurt his status as the clear front-runner for the 2024 nomination, at least not yet. He remains well ahead of rivals in both consideration and vote choice.

In fact, most Republican primary voters would not generally consider him keeping the alleged documents with nuclear systems or military plans to be a national security risk, in and of itself.

Most explicitly ruled out the charges announced in the indictment changing their views about Mr. Trump. Rather than being disqualifying in their eyes, even if he's ultimately convicted of a crime in the matter, they overwhelmingly feel he should still be able to serve as president again.

[...]

 

[JennieM]

JUN 11, 2023

Pluralities of Americans support second Trump indictment, say charges are politically motivated: POLL

While a plurality of Americans supports the second Trump indictment, a familiar partisan divide has reemerged, polling shows.

abcnews.go.com

[...]

Nearly half -- 48% -- of Americans think Trump should have been charged in this case, whereas 35% think he should not have been and 17% saying they do not know, per the ABC News/Ipsos poll conducted using Ipsos' KnowledgePanel.

Not surprisingly, an overwhelming majority (86%) of self-identified Democrats believe the former president should have been charged. On the other hand, Republicans remain mostly loyal to Trump, with two in three (67%) saying the former president and current frontrunner for the Republican nomination should not have been charged. Independents are more divided, with 45% believing he should have been charged, a third saying he should not have been, and 22% saying they don't know.

Overall, a solid majority of over three in five Americans find the charges either very (42%) or somewhat serious (19%), while only 28% of the public say it's not too serious or not serious at all. One in ten say they don't know. And party splits are expectedly polarized, with about nine in 10 Democrats saying the charges are very or somewhat serious while half of Republicans find them to be not too serious or not serious at all. A majority of independents (63%) find the charges very or somewhat serious, while 38% say they are not too serious or not serious at all.

[...]

I really don't understand how 35% are so blinkered. Do they recognize there's something at fault here but should be oversighted because Trump is an ex-president who should not be challenged and they are being patriotic about the whole thing (although you could also argue, if they are being patriotic, they would want to uphold the principles of democracy and all that the USA stands for), or do they see nothing at fault?