FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen-Donna Adelson Upcoming Trial - *4 Guilty* #26

[Ferpo]

Interesting. They have the technology to determine if she had a burner phone i.e cell tower records would should a random number pinging from her house.

Why do you think she was not texting CA? She could have been texting him and then called him?

Unfortunately, a WhatsApp text would not involve a cell tower.

 

[Zedzded]

Unfortunately, a WhatsApp text would not involve a cell tower.

No they can determine a phone's location even if it's not being used. And this is how they can sometimes determine burner phones have being used, even if the perpetrator disposes of the burner phone. So they track someone's actual phone to a location using cell tower triangulation and the report they get also states that there was another phone (burner phone) pinging from the same location.

So I'd be surprised if they used burner phones and LE don't have those numbers.

 

[apeXperience]

No they can determine a phone's location even if it's not being used. And this is how they can sometimes determine burner phones have being used, even if the perpetrator disposes of the burner phone. So they track someone's actual phone to a location using cell tower triangulation and the report they get also states that there was another phone (burner phone) pinging from the same location.

So I'd be surprised if they used burner phones and LE don't have those numbers.

1. Very good observation, Zedzded, who is not a Violin nor a Cello nor a Viola player! (smile)

If both regular and burner phones are ON simultaneously, they will ping at the same locations at the same times.
If the regular and the burner are used intermittently and alternatively, they will ping along the same route.
If the regular is turned OFF and the burner is ON, it will ping at specific times and specific locations such that it could be deduced who is using it.

And a WhatsApp text, or any text from a phone including flip phone of the 1990s (not a smart phone), are traceable rather easily. Besides Cell Towers, there are other means of tracing and surveilling regular or burner phones' activities.

However, there are means of using regular and/or burner phones such that they are NOT traceable, but it would be lengthy and ... inappropriate ... to describe here.

2. IMHO, there are ample evidences to charge both Harvey and Wendi for second degree murder, which fetches 19 years

However, any defendant is innocent until proven guilty, which would make their possibly simultaneous indictments hard to prosecute. Hence, the sequential process adopted by the State, in a divide and conquer manner.

It has been long speculated by sleuths that Wendi could be "next in line" after Donna, given the potential perjury charges from her flip-flop on the stand, among multiple factual circumstances described in the dockets of Tuto Garcia, Kathy Magbanua, and Dr. Charlie. Besides, 19 year would be rather light for 46 year old State labeled un-indicted co-conspirator Wendi. Hence, the State might never indict Wendi until direct evidence such as Charlie's testimony availed. YT lawyers were exited by Magbanua's statements about Wendi but Magbanua got the info. over pillow talk from Charlie, which would be hearsay!

However, the "next in line" could be Harvey. As evidences transpire in the publicly available dockets' implications such as a) the birthday conversations to which Robert could potentially reveal, b) the registered communication at a restaurant with dear Charlie, c) driving the car used by Donna to deliver the wet and stapled blood money, d) attempted one way flight in Vietnam with Donna, and e) facilitating the alleged Donna's silly transaction to fabricate a witness and fictional statements by delivery of a painting piece as form of payment, to list just the most salient facts, could be enough for a potential second degree indictment. 19 years for a 80 year old individual is rather akin to life without parole.

 

[Ferpo]

No they can determine a phone's location even if it's not being used.

Ah yes, I agree. Given her known WhatsApp-saviness at this time, I was assuming that she would be using it for communications that morning.

 

[ch_13]

I asked you this awhile back-maybe you missed it. On the police report, the Best Buy guy said that when he was there, WA was texting someone and he thought it was her brother..but what we were told is that she called and spoke to her brother either while he was there or after. What about that text? Maybe he was just wrong about that? Or maybe it was on a burner phone?

I don't think she was using a burner.

I think Wendy was using an encrypted chat app to talk to her brother and mother. It's not uncommon to refer to chat app messages as texts. Plus, from the repairman's perspective he wouldn't have been able to see exactly what app she was using. It would have just appeared to be someone texting.

We know that Wendy used WhatsApp, so that's probably how she was communicating with her brother. We also know that she sent a text message to Charlie that morning which said "this is so sweet" which she later deleted. The speculation is that she meant to send that via WhatsApp but screwed up. On an iPhone both WhatsApp and iMessage (the SMS app) have very similar green icons.

vs.

These are the current icons, but they were pretty much the same 11 years ago.

 

[Going Rogue]

I don't think she was using a burner.

I think Wendy was using an encrypted chat app to talk to her brother and mother. It's not uncommon to refer to chat app messages as texts. Plus, from the repairman's perspective he wouldn't have been able to see exactly what app she was using. It would have just appeared to be someone texting.

We know that Wendy used WhatsApp, so that's probably how she was communicating with her brother. We also know that she sent a text message to Charlie that morning which said "this is so sweet" which she later deleted. The speculation is that she meant to send that via WhatsApp but screwed up. On an iPhone both WhatsApp and iMessage (the SMS app) have very similar green icons.

View attachment 599779 vs. View attachment 599778

These are the current icons, but they were pretty much the same 11 years ago.

The state released Wendi’s call records into evidence but decided not to show any activity that preceded the call she made to Dan shortly before noon that day. The state obviously has more information on her digital communications from that morning and I’m guessing there is more than the deleted text to Charlie ‘this is so sweet’. There was likely an exchange between her and Charlie via text and the state is likely aware of the full context of this exchange. I would imagine if we ever see the day of a Wendi indictment, Wendi’s entire call records will be available and we would no longer have to speculate. As much as I believe that Charlie, Donna and Wendi collectively have a mix of disorders on the DSM scale, I don’t think Wendi would have been that cold to be referencing Dan’s murder or murder plans as ‘sweet’. I could be wrong, but I believe there is another explanation – what makes it so suspicious is the fact that she deleted that message.

 

[Knitpicker]

Interesting. They have the technology to determine if she had a burner phone i.e cell tower records would should a random number pinging from her house.

Why do you think she was not texting CA? She could have been texting him and then called him?

Oh I didn’t think she didn’t text him. Just that we always knew about that 19 minute call to him, but never any text message on her cell phone.

 

[Knitpicker]

I don't think she was using a burner.

I think Wendy was using an encrypted chat app to talk to her brother and mother. It's not uncommon to refer to chat app messages as texts. Plus, from the repairman's perspective he wouldn't have been able to see exactly what app she was using. It would have just appeared to be someone texting.

We know that Wendy used WhatsApp, so that's probably how she was communicating with her brother. We also know that she sent a text message to Charlie that morning which said "this is so sweet" which she later deleted. The speculation is that she meant to send that via WhatsApp but screwed up. On an iPhone both WhatsApp and iMessage (the SMS app) have very similar green icons.

View attachment 599779 vs. View attachment 599778

These are the current icons, but they were pretty much the same 11 years ago.

Ok yes, about the “so sweet” comment. Do you remember what time that was?
She definitely spoke to him on her phone for 19 minutes.
But obviously, the BB guy saw her texting.
Since that texting is not on her phone records, I was just wondering if that was another phone, but yes, it could have been whats app.
She would have had to tell the guy though that she was texting her brother bc why else would he think thats who she was texting?

 

[Knitpicker]

The state released Wendi’s call records into evidence but decided not to show any activity that preceded the call she made to Dan shortly before noon that day. The state obviously has more information on her digital communications from that morning and I’m guessing there is more than the deleted text to Charlie ‘this is so sweet’. There was likely an exchange between her and Charlie via text and the state is likely aware of the full context of this exchange. I would imagine if we ever see the day of a Wendi indictment, Wendi’s entire call records will be available and we would no longer have to speculate. As much as I believe that Charlie, Donna and Wendi collectively have a mix of disorders on the DSM scale, I don’t think Wendi would have been that cold to be referencing Dan’s murder or murder plans as ‘sweet’. I could be wrong, but I believe there is another explanation – what makes it so suspicious is the fact that she deleted that message.

We have all her calls starting from 9 AM the day of the murder.

 

[Going Rogue]

We have all her calls starting from 9 AM the day of the murder.

Are you sure about that? I know they referenced texts that Donna sent to Wendi in the AM re the BestBuy appt, but I don’t recall seeing Wendi’s digital phone records before the call she made to Dan that I referenced. They showed a window of time shortly before noon till about 3:00pm that day.

 

[Zedzded]

I don't think she was using a burner.

I think Wendy was using an encrypted chat app to talk to her brother and mother. It's not uncommon to refer to chat app messages as texts. Plus, from the repairman's perspective he wouldn't have been able to see exactly what app she was using. It would have just appeared to be someone texting.


These are the current icons, but they were pretty much the same 11 years ago.

I don't think she was using a burner phone either.

 

[Knitpicker]

Are you sure about that? I know they referenced texts that Donna sent to Wendi in the AM re the BestBuy appt, but I don’t recall seeing Wendi’s digital phone records before the call she made to Dan that I referenced. They showed a window of time shortly before noon till about 3:00pm that day.

9:12, 9:19, 10:06 to and from charlie. And others after that. First was DM at 9:02
Some incoming from CA, and one outgoing to CA. If you want specifics I can list them.

 

[Seattle1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1940769005725254086

 

[Going Rogue]

9:12, 9:19, 10:06 to and from charlie. And others after that. First was DM at 9:02
Some incoming from CA, and one outgoing to CA. If you want specifics I can list them.

I know they referenced AM calls from Charlie and text from Donna in the AM, I don’t recall the call to Dan prior to the one they entered into evidence (shortly prior to noon). I was referring to a call detail report (not just referencing a few random calls) that shows all activity (calls and texts) and the content of the texts. Wouldn’t you like to know what preceded Wendi’s text message “this is so sweet”. I believe there is more context to that text message and I believe the state has that information. Anyone can speculate, I like to have real data. Maybe Charlie said “don’t worry little sis, I’ll buy you a new TV". As messed up as Wendi may be, I just do see her referencing the murder as so sweet. I'm not saying that it's not possible, I just think there is another explanation and more data will likely reveal what it was in reference to..

 

[Knitpicker]

I know they referenced AM calls from Charlie and text from Donna in the AM, I don’t recall the call to Dan prior to the one they entered into evidence (shortly prior to noon). I was referring to a call detail report (not just referencing a few random calls) that shows all activity (calls and texts) and the content of the texts. Wouldn’t you like to know what preceded Wendi’s text message “this is so sweet”. I believe there is more context to that text message and I believe the state has that information. Anyone can speculate, I like to have real data. Maybe Charlie said “don’t worry little sis, I’ll buy you a new TV". As messed up as Wendi may be, I just do see her referencing the murder as so sweet. I'm not saying that it's not possible, I just think there is another explanation and more data will likely reveal what it was in reference to..

OK You originally said you didn’t think there were any calls posted for Wendi prior to the Dan call referenced. I was just informing you that there was a call record- I have a screenshot of it.
The contents of text messages is another subject,.

 

[Knitpicker]

I know they referenced AM calls from Charlie and text from Donna in the AM, I don’t recall the call to Dan prior to the one they entered into evidence (shortly prior to noon). I was referring to a call detail report (not just referencing a few random calls) that shows all activity (calls and texts) and the content of the texts. Wouldn’t you like to know what preceded Wendi’s text message “this is so sweet”. I believe there is more context to that text message and I believe the state has that information. Anyone can speculate, I like to have real data. Maybe Charlie said “don’t worry little sis, I’ll buy you a new TV". As messed up as Wendi may be, I just do see her referencing the murder as so sweet. I'm not saying that it's not possible, I just think there is another explanation and more data will likely reveal what it was in reference to..

PS. The notion that WA never saw DM’s call- makes no sense since after her calls with Charlie, she was texting or calling 5 other women, looking at her phone…before she decided to return DM’s call at 11:42.
Also interesting that she made lunch plans with 2 other women, cancelled plans with her friend Renee, and all the times she was using her phone she did not return his calls, knowing that she had to make the pick up plans for the boys, and discuss the new school.
As if eating lunch with friends was more important than that.
Bc she knew he was gone.
Texts to friends: E. Benfer, M. Turner, M Griggs, Tova, (Left a vm not a text) J Silberman-all before 12 PM.

 

[Knitpicker]

I believe at 8:20 AM.


Yes, I see why you would disbelieve this text. It certainly conflicts with your central thesis that there's no proof that poor little Wendy had anything to do with Dan's murder, and in fact is being unfairly scapegoated by those of us who aren't as logical and rational as you are.

Hey, who knows. Maybe Wendy was just eating a particularly delicious donut for breakfast that morning and felt the need to let her brother know about it.

No! She was stirring and stirring her oatmeal. It was the slow cooking, old fashioned kind….

 

[Niner]

No! She was stirring and stirring her oatmeal. It was the slow cooking, old fashioned kind….

Uncle Ben's?

 

[Knitpicker]

Uncle Ben's?

I think Uncle Bens is rice. Probably Quakers.

 

[Niner]

I think Uncle Bens is rice. Probably Quakers.

Oops - right - Quaker guy! Thanks!