FL - Henry Sengaroun for rape of 8yo girl, St Petersburg, 2006

[southerngirl]

I beg to differ. If someone is going to attack one of my children, he is going to find a grizzly bear on him in an instant. Most mothers have that instinct. However, since this mother allowed her children to play outside alone, you may be right. She might not have cared.

I'm not sure she could have stopped him. And I thought Websleuths didn't allow victims and their family members to be criticized and attacked (and yes, sarcasm is a form of aggression...) Maybe I was mistaken......

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm not sure she could have stopped him. And I thought Websleuths didn't allow victims and their family members to be criticized and attacked (and yes, sarcasm is a form of aggression...) Maybe I was mistaken......

The little girl is the victim here. Its the mother's fault. She's not above reproach.

 

[southerngirl]

The little girl is the victim here. Its the mother's fault. She's not above reproach.

Ok, Jeana. I'm not sure why you removed my post, as I didn't violate the TOS. I'll try again. The child was raped because of the perpetrator, not the mother. The mother also deserves our compassion. Many decisions are only poor in hindsight. Many victims and/or caregivers contribute unwittingly to their victimization. I listed examples in my previous post, and I don't care to do so twice. Examples in which no one here would DARE criticize the victim or their caregivers. Why is everyone judging this particular mother so harshly?????

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Ok, Jeana. I'm not sure why you removed my post, as I didn't violate the TOS. I'll try again. The child was raped because of the perpetrator, not the mother. The mother also deserves our compassion. Many decisions are only poor in hindsight. Many victims and/or caregivers contribute unwittingly to their victimization. I listed examples in my previous post, and I don't care to do so twice. Examples in which no one here would DARE criticize the victim or their caregivers. Why is everyone judging this particular mother so harshly?????

Yes, your post did violate the TOS as it referred to other murder victims in an unflattering light. IF the child was with the parent, the child would NOT have been raped. Your assertation that the guy would have raped her in front of her mother is flawed as that NEVER happens. They're cowards and they don't want to be confronted. That's why we, as parents, don't alllow our children to play unsupervised. Because there are pedophiles looking for them. Your examples don't compare to this case because the victims were all adults or in their own homes.

 

[southerngirl]

Yes, your post did violate the TOS as it referred to other murder victims in an unflattering light. IF the child was with the parent, the child would NOT have been raped. Your assertation that the guy would have raped her in front of her mother is flawed as that NEVER happens. They're cowards and they don't want to be confronted. That's why we, as parents, don't alllow our children to play unsupervised. Because there are pedophiles looking for them. Your examples don't compare to this case because the victims were all adults or in their own homes.

I beg to differ. My examples showed other victims who made poor decisions only in hindsight but no one here would ever blame them, including me, for the crime that was perpetrated upon them. I'm sorry you can't see the similarity and common threads that link them all. I in no way would ever intentionally refer to other murder victims in an unflattering light. For choosing a bad marriage partner or not locking the door? How is that unflattering, I respectfully ask?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I beg to differ. My examples showed other victims who made poor decisions only in hindsight but no one here would ever blame them, including me, for the crime that was perpetrated upon them. I'm sorry you can't see the similarity and common threads that link them all. I in no way would ever intentionally refer to other murder victims in an unfaltering light. For choosing a bad marriage partner or not locking the door? How is that unflattering, I respectfully ask?

Let's get back on topic. A little girl was raped. Let's not bicker.

 

[southcitymom]

Let's get back on topic. A little girl was raped. Let's not bicker.

For much, if not most, of this thread, the discussion and topic have been larger than the scope of a little girl being raped. That's because people on this board criticized a mother's decision and other people then jumped in to defend that mother's decision.

You have been a part of this discussion. It seems a bit disingenuous for you to now say "Hey, let's not disagree about this."

People feel passionately about their opinion of this matter. That happens on message boards. Certainly whether an adult caretaker shares blame when a child is injured is fair game on a board like this. The discussion is cogent and is on topic, imho.

Whether individual posters agree with the opinions of others is another matter all together, but I ,for one, am sorry that one of the opinions was deleted.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

For much, if not most, of this thread, the discussion and topic have been larger than the scope of a little girl being raped. That's because people on this board criticized a mother's decision and other people then jumped in to defend that mother's decision.

You have been a part of this discussion. It seems a bit disingenuous for you to now say "Hey, let's not disagree about this."

People feel passionately about their opinion of this matter. That happens on message boards. Certainly whether an adult caretaker shares blame when a child is injured is fair game on a board like this. The discussion is cogent and is on topic, imho.

Whether individual posters agree with the opinions of others is another matter all together, but I ,for one, am sorry that one of the opinions was deleted.

I'm sorry that you disagree.

 

[TisHerself]

However, since this mother allowed her children to play outside alone, you may be right. She might not have cared.

How very sad that you could even say that or even sit in judgement of that mother in that way. Her heart must be breaking, that her daughter was raped, to say she might not care if it happened right in front of her. If you think she was wrong for leaving her children for a few minutes alone that's one thing but to say she would not care if she was raped in front of her sorry that is so cold.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

How very sad that you could even say that or even sit in judgement of that mother in that way. Her heart must be breaking, that her daughter was raped, to say she might not care if it happened right in front of her. If you think she was wrong for leaving her children for a few minutes alone that's one thing but to say she would not care if she was raped in front of her sorry that is so cold.

Sorry, I want to respond to this. I moderate this forum so I read every single case about every single child that is raped, murdered and thrown away like trash. So, for someone like me, who sees this several times a day sometimes, to see or hear about a SMALL child left alone in a bathtub, in a house or outside in her/his own yard or worse, in a public area, I have to think what the hell is wrong with this picture? Why is this child sitting alone in a grocery store parking lot or what the hell was a 6 year old doing in a park. Its not a huge stretch of the imagination to think that something bad is going to happen in those scenarios. To all of a sudden, think OHMYGOD, someone took that child who was allowed to play outside in a park and did something horriible to her, well HELLO????? We know what kind of world this is and what kind of monsters are out there. Littlle girls are being buried alive, so forgive me if I have absoulely ZERO tolerence for parents who don't do everything in their power to watch their children 24/7.

 

[TisHerself]

Sorry, I want to respond to this. I moderate this forum so I read every single case about every single child that is raped, murdered and thrown away like trash. So, for someone like me, who sees this several times a day sometimes, to see or hear about a SMALL child left alone in a bathtub, in a house or outside in her/his own yard or worse, in a public area, I have to think what the hell is wrong with this picture? Why is this child sitting alone in a grocery store parking lot or what the hell was a 6 year old doing in a park. Its not a huge stretch of the imagination to think that something bad is going to happen in those scenarios. To all of a sudden, think OHMYGOD, someone took that child who was allowed to play outside in a park and did something horriible to her, well HELLO????? We know what kind of world this is and what kind of monsters are out there. Littlle girls are being buried alive, so forgive me if I have absoulely ZERO tolerence for parents who don't do everything in their power to watch their children 24/7.

I fully understand that you moderate this forum Jeana, because you do that does not mean that others are going to have opinions that differ from yours. Or that because you do moderate this forum we cannot think for ourselves and have to agree with you. I also read about every case, about every child that is murdered, just because you moderate this forum does not give you carte blance on how you feel about the victims of said violence.

You may not think that the mother of this child has been attacked on this thread that is your right. I respectfully disagree, I think she has been attacked over and over again, her little girl was the rape victim sadly, but she is also the victim here. Just saying It might not have bothered her if her little girl was raped right in front of her is an attack on her.

So you have Zero tolerance fine I understand that so you can voice your opinion? and you have done that very well several times as have others on this thread. So why is it not OK for the ones who have different opinions to post theirs?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I fully understand that you moderate this forum Jeana, because you do that does not mean that others are going to have opinions that differ from yours. Or that because you do moderate this forum we cannot think for ourselves and have to agree with you. I also read about every case, about every child that is murdered, just because you moderate this forum does not give you carte blance on how you feel about the victims of said violence.

You may not think that the mother of this child has been attacked on this thread that is your right. I respectfully disagree, I think she has been attacked over and over again, her little girl was the rape victim sadly, but she is also the victim here. Just saying It might not have bothered her if her little girl was raped right in front of her is an attack on her.

So you have Zero tolerance fine I understand that so you can voice your opinion? and you have done that very well several times as have others on this thread. So why is it not OK for the ones who have different opinions to post theirs?

Only one post was ever deleted from this thread and that post dragged other victims into this discussion which I will not allow. If you leave your kid home alone and the house burns down and the kid dies, you can't then be the victim. If you leave your kid to roam the neighborhood and something bad happens to that kid, you can't then become the victim. Sometimes the parent has to be the PARENT and accept responsibility when something happen on your watch.

I'm sorry if you disagree. That's your right. But you can either take your arguments with me private or you can move on. I've explained myself enough and in my opinion, this parent doesn't qualify for the "victim" argument.

 

[spclk]

Well since I work for an agency that houses Child protectives services, I put your theory to the test. I spoke to 7 LCSW's and all agreed that children of the ages 7 & 8 should have never been left alone in a public park, no matter the fact the mom was an alleged 130 feet away. They all agreed that if this situation happened here, the mother's actions would most likely be investigated and the could have been placed with a non-custodial relative until the results of their investigation were documented.

I couldn't believe this post. No offense bakerprune, but to take a child who has just been raped out of her home and placed somewhere without her parents seem just as cruel to me as what she has already been through. She needs the love and support of family right now, not more trauma.

Yes, her mother made a grave error in judgment and normally I would be one of the first ones to criticize her. Please raise your hand if you have NEVER been in a situation where you did not have your children in your sight every second. Come on now, we have all let our children out of sight and but for the grace of God, that could have been one of our children. I watch my daughter who is 13 constantly and NO, I would not have left her at the park....but she should not be crucified for it. She has been punished enought with what she will have to endure. I have just read back through all of the threads and this is what I see:

ONE post on the arrest of the rapist.
NINE pages practically crucifying the mother.
ZERO bashing the mother of the 18 year old who just left him on the streets to hurt little girls, KNOWING he was a threat to society.

Why can't everyone just pray for this little girl and this family and stop pointing fingers.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I couldn't believe this post. No offense bakerprune, but to take a child who has just been raped out of her home and placed somewhere without her parents seem just as cruel to me as what she has already been through. She needs the love and support of family right now, not more trauma.

Yes, her mother made a grave error in judgment and normally I would be one of the first ones to criticize her. Please raise your hand if you have NEVER been in a situation where you did not have your children in your sight every second. Come on now, we have all let our children out of sight and but for the grace of God, that could have been one of our children. I watch my daughter who is 13 constantly and NO, I would not have left her at the park....but she should not be crucified for it. She has been punished enought with what she will have to endure. I have just read back through all of the threads and this is what I see:

ONE post on the arrest of the rapist.
NINE pages practically crucifying the mother.
ZERO bashing the mother of the 18 year old who just left him on the streets to hurt little girls, KNOWING he was a threat to society.

Why can't everyone just pray for this little girl and this family and stop pointing fingers.

Because its 100% preventable sometimes and I'm mad as hell that it KEEPS HAPPENING due to stupidity. I do pray for the little girl and her mother and go ahead and call me a big "B" because I don't want it to happen to anyone else's kid. If being labeled is going to get parents to wake up to what's happening these days, that's fine by me.

 

[bakerprune64]

I couldn't believe this post. No offense bakerprune, but to take a child who has just been raped out of her home and placed somewhere without her parents seem just as cruel to me as what she has already been through. She needs the love and support of family right now, not more trauma.

Yes, her mother made a grave error in judgment and normally I would be one of the first ones to criticize her. Please raise your hand if you have NEVER been in a situation where you did not have your children in your sight every second. Come on now, we have all let our children out of sight and but for the grace of God, that could have been one of our children. I watch my daughter who is 13 constantly and NO, I would not have left her at the park....but she should not be crucified for it. She has been punished enought with what she will have to endure. I have just read back through all of the threads and this is what I see:

ONE post on the arrest of the rapist.
NINE pages practically crucifying the mother.
ZERO bashing the mother of the 18 year old who just left him on the streets to hurt little girls, KNOWING he was a threat to society.

Why can't everyone just pray for this little girl and this family and stop pointing fingers.

...They all agreed that if this situation happened here, the mother's actions would most likely be investigated and the could have been placed with a non-custodial relative until the results of their investigation were documented.

If you re-read this section carefully you can see where I said where the child COULD be placed outside the home, not WOULD but COULD be. Personally, I would hope that the child be left in her own home with mom. But I still believe that mommy dearest needs to be accept responsibility for what happened.

 

[spclk]

Jeana,

I certainly don't think you are a big "B", but that did make me chuckle. I think you, like everyone on this board cares about victims, especially children. If you have read any of my posts, you would see that I am constantly saying the same thing as you.....WATCH YOUR CHILDREN! Keep them away from people that you don't know well, etc. I agree that this child should not have been left alone in the park, but am just as certain that this mom wishes she had not left her alone also. I would hate to be this mom and read all of these posts as I know how guilty I would feel. Everyone is right here:

Keep your eyes on your kids.....and
Tougher laws for child molesters, rapists and murderers!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana,

I certainly don't think you are a big "B", but that did make me chuckle. I think you, like everyone on this board cares about victims, especially children. If you have read any of my posts, you would see that I am constantly saying the same thing as you.....WATCH YOUR CHILDREN! Keep them away from people that you don't know well, etc. I agree that this child should not have been left alone in the park, but am just as certain that this mom wishes she had not left her alone also. I would hate to be this mom and read all of these posts as I know how guilty I would feel. Everyone is right here:

Keep your eyes on your kids.....and
Tougher laws for child molesters, rapists and murderers!

Agreed. I hope they find this guy before he does it to someone else.

 

[spclk]

They did find him and arrested him on July 20. Here is the link.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/07/21/Southpinellas/Man_is_arrested_in_ra.shtml

Kenny Miller knew Henry Sengaroun was mentally disturbed, and even his own mother was afraid of him. Sometimes, the 18-year-old would wander the neighborhood aimlessly, said Miller, a community police officer.
On Thursday, police arrested Sengaroun, saying he raped an 8-year-old girl in full daylight by Central Oak Park. Miller had told detectives to check out Sengaroun after learning about the man who fled the scene.

 

[southcitymom]

Because its 100% preventable sometimes and I'm mad as hell that it KEEPS HAPPENING due to stupidity. I do pray for the little girl and her mother and go ahead and call me a big "B" because I don't want it to happen to anyone else's kid. If being labeled is going to get parents to wake up to what's happening these days, that's fine by me.

Nothing in this world is ever 100% preventable. Thinking otherwise might make us feel safer, but it is not a sentiment based in reality. We just aren't powerful enough to prevent everything.

None of us has any idea what would have happened in this case had the mother stayed in the park with the children or taken them back to the house wih her.

I have read some posts on this thread with which I vehemently disagree, but I haven't read any thing that comes close to the level of cruelty that the post suggesting this woman didn't care that her child was raped reaches. Unbelievable.

At least one of the articles regarding this case talked about how rare crime in this neighborhood was and how absolutely odd it was for someone to attack a child in broad daylight - especially in this area. I have read numerous articles on this case and watched several television broadcasts and not one single person involved with or interviewed for those stories has even slightly hinted that the mother did something to lead to this tragedy.

The only place I see people attacking this mother (while, ironically, insisting that they aren't attacking her at all) is here.

:waitasec:

 

[southcitymom]

I couldn't believe this post. No offense bakerprune, but to take a child who has just been raped out of her home and placed somewhere without her parents seem just as cruel to me as what she has already been through. She needs the love and support of family right now, not more trauma.

Yes, her mother made a grave error in judgment and normally I would be one of the first ones to criticize her. Please raise your hand if you have NEVER been in a situation where you did not have your children in your sight every second. Come on now, we have all let our children out of sight and but for the grace of God, that could have been one of our children. I watch my daughter who is 13 constantly and NO, I would not have left her at the park....but she should not be crucified for it. She has been punished enought with what she will have to endure. I have just read back through all of the threads and this is what I see:

ONE post on the arrest of the rapist.
NINE pages practically crucifying the mother.
ZERO bashing the mother of the 18 year old who just left him on the streets to hurt little girls, KNOWING he was a threat to society.

Why can't everyone just pray for this little girl and this family and stop pointing fingers.

Excellent post!