FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[liz b.]

This is a clever analogy--makes me smirk a little every time I read it.


The cell phone belonged to Travis. He was and is, I guess, a longtime friend of Logan and Jennifer. Actually, he is referred to as a "Kesse family" friend. He stayed in Jenn's condo with Logan the whole time Jenn was in St. Croix with her boyfriend, Rob. I think it is also important to note Travis returned to Jennifer's condo with Logan on the 24th--so it's unlikely he lived in Orlando.

I hope someone jumps in to correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Logan stated on one of the mini-documentaries on Jenn's case that he and Travis were both investigated and polygraphed.

Travis is not the male friend that Jenn had formerly dated and who purportedly still carried a torch for her. (And got "stinking drunk per Mr. Kesse" at the Blue Martini on the evening of the 23rd). This person did live in Orlando at the time. It came out through the current podcast that an "unnamed source" stated this person had only joined Logan and Travis at Jennifer's condo for "drinks" one evening. He offered to take a poly but LE failed to follow-up on it. It is said his alibi checked out. Again, these last bits of information come only from an "unnamed podcast source".



This seems to be the theory du jour. One theory is as good another, so I hope I'm not hurting anyone's feelings when I say that I don't personally subscribe to it.

I try not to put Jennifer on a pedestal, but I do believe that she was a sincere, hard-working, and loyal individual. I don't believe she would have told Rob she was in bed for the night and then gone out on him. Jennifer loved Rob and wanted to spend the rest of her life with him. I feel it's unlikely she would have lied to him in such a blatant, disrespectful manner.

What if the knock had occurred during the approximate two-hour conversation (?) Jenn had with her girlfriend since the 2nd grade? Keep in mind that if we believe the ping study, she was most likely only at her condo for about three/three and a half hours before whatever happened, happened--so possibly two out of the approximate three hours, Jennifer had talked to her girlfriend.

All we really know is that a knock occurred on her door at an unknown time during the evening of the 23rd and for some reason Jennifer "believed" it was her male, upstairs neighbor. We are told she did not answer. Did she look out through her peephole? Did she assume it was the male, upstairs neighbor because he had a habit of knocking on her door in the evening?

What if she didn't have her car parked in its normal spot with her condo number on it and this (plus the unanswered knock) lead someone to believe she still was not home from vacation? What if they came back a little later with a key--by this time Jennifer had finished her conversations with Travis, her girlfriend, and Rob and was in bed beginning to fall asleep. Had she been so exhausted that evening she hadn't placed the chairs under her doorknobs?

I dunno. I don't really favor a surprise attack because this whole thing seems too well planned to me. I'm just sitting here wasting my time, I guess.

The more workable theories the better. One thing I've observed since becoming a member here : it's common for posters to come to believe that they "know" a missing person because we delve into their lives. I've noticed that we don't really "know" them at all. I wasn't suggesting anything nefarious on JK's part when I wrote that she may have gone out that night. JK was a grown woman, living alone. Nothing wrong with going out, say for a drink, with an old friend, or someone from work. And why tell her BF ? perhaps she believed it would upset him for no cause, and didn't want to do that. She was single, and not engaged. I have never heard about her work phone calls from that last day she was there. Or any info about earlier cell phone calls or texts. She could have been contacted during the day, and agreed to meet someone later that evening.

I do buy the ping movements of the phones. jmo, though.

 

[scadagirl28]

I agree with the ping movements as well. Destroying the phone right afterwards ,

 

[Questions123]

If we go with the ping theory then she most likely disappeared at night because she didn't call her bf the following morning and her clothes were on the bed we can't prove she wore different ones because nobody knows what is missing. Her car was still in the carpark so shes never made it to that.

I cannot understand how at a late hour someone got her out of her apartment. Could someone have done some really loud knocks to her door then hid around a corner? Jennifer opens her door to see what is going on cant see anything so takes a few steps away from her apartment and is grabbed?

I'm sure there are simple answers of what happened but unless someone comes forward I don't think we will ever know :-(

 

[Questions123]

Also would just like to add that after being away on holiday preparing her clothes the night before is something I would do as its one less thing to organise in the morning. Does anyone know if her bed appeared to be slept in or was it made?

 

[rd_jfc]

It hasn't been made clear in past, but there was some info posted here recently though, that phone call just before 10pm was on her landline.

 

[liz b.]

It hasn't been made clear in past, but there was some info posted here recently though, that phone call just before 10pm was on her landline.

I did read that. I also read that JK used to go out on the back balcony area when she used her cell, because she got better cell reception out there.

I do recall reading about the scent dogs getting a hit in the wooded area in the back of her condo.

 

[Truth Prevails]

It hasn't been made clear in past, but there was some info posted here recently though, that phone call just before 10pm was on her landline.

Yes, it is now being said that Jenn used her landline for the last phone call with Rob. I noticed that for years and years it was always assumed her last call had been made from her cell phone. (It may have been more than an assumption, too; because I believe the information has a source). Anyway. Whatever.

I'll link the podcast as a source for the current info for the landline being used for the call. I made a short transcript of Mr. Kesse's statement. But here is something that caught my attention--he doesn't seem to be saying that the call began at 9:57 pm. I'm curious as to what your thoughts might be on this.

@ around 14:00 minutes in:
Mr. Kesse: The last actual thing that we know Jennifer did was: coming home from work she went—at 6:15—she went through a toll booth that she always goes through. And then she had a conversation on her house phone ... {snipped} ... And at 9:57 pm on January 23, 2006, was the last contact anyone had and it was with Rob, her boyfriend. And that is it.
https://audioboom.com/posts/6334818-going-forward

 

[Truth Prevails]

If we go with the ping theory then she most likely disappeared at night because she didn't call her bf the following morning and her clothes were on the bed we can't prove she wore different ones because nobody knows what is missing. Her car was still in the carpark so shes never made it to that.

I cannot understand how at a late hour someone got her out of her apartment. Could someone have done some really loud knocks to her door then hid around a corner? Jennifer opens her door to see what is going on cant see anything so takes a few steps away from her apartment and is grabbed?

I'm sure there are simple answers of what happened but unless someone comes forward I don't think we will ever know :-(

Bold by me: I'm probably misunderstanding your meaning here, but I just wanted to mention that Jennifer's car was not found in her assigned parking spot at her condo complex. Rather, it was found a little more than a mile down the road at another complex called the Hunnington-On-The Green.

Also would just like to add that after being away on holiday preparing her clothes the night before is something I would do as its one less thing to organise in the morning. Does anyone know if her bed appeared to be slept in or was it made?

I believe "they say" her bed appeared to be slept in. Also, during her very last phone conversation with her boyfriend, she told him she was in bed.

 

[rd_jfc]

well, again, this is murky, and not sure why. The "family", (mother, I presume?), straightened up Jennifer's condo, disturbing a crime scene. People ask why the condo wasn't processed for fingerprints, etc. Neither the Kesses or the police treated it as a crime scene, so that's the answer to a lot of questions.

Clothes were laying on the bed, there are pictures of that. Was the bed covers completely disturbed, clothes taken off the bed, the bed made, and clothes put back on the bed? I would hope this is unlikely.

Was one side of the bed disturbed and clothes laid on the other half of the bed in the morning that just happened to remain undisturbed from a night of sleeping? That is after all the alleged scenario where the bed "appears to have been slept in" and clothes "laid out on the bed in the morning". How realistic does that sound to anyone?

Or, was there clothes laid out on the bed and Jennifer sat on her bed leaning back against pillows while on the phone, and Jennifer never did sleep in the bed that night? That is what I expect, but it was an unacceptable scenario.

Again, there is zero indication that Jennifer was in her condo Tuesday morning other than a perception that the shower was damp enough to have been used Tuesday morning. And every indication she was not there that night shortly after her last phone call at 9:57pm.

 

[Questions123]

Sorry I meant she never made it to her destination because she didn't make it to work but she may have had another destination planned at ladt minute the night before that we don't know about.

Also sometimes if im on the phone at night I might be in bed but doesn't mean I'm necessarily in bed for the night I may get up again. As for stepping outside my front door I may venture to my car if i left something in it that I needed like my purse or something valuable for example.

 

[rd_jfc]

Yes, it is now being said that Jenn used her landline for the last phone call with Rob. I noticed that for years and years it was always assumed her last call had been made from her cell phone. (It may have been more than an assumption, too; because I believe the information has a source). Anyway. Whatever.

I'll link the podcast as a source for the current info for the landline being used for the call. I made a short transcript of Mr. Kesse's statement. But here is something that caught my attention--he doesn't seem to be saying that the call began at 9:57 pm. I'm curious as to what your thoughts might be on this.

@ around 14:00 minutes in:
Mr. Kesse: The last actual thing that we know Jennifer did was: coming home from work she went—at 6:15—she went through a toll booth that she always goes through. And then she had a conversation on her house phone ... {snipped} ... And at 9:57 pm on January 23, 2006, was the last contact anyone had and it was with Rob, her boyfriend. And that is it.
https://audioboom.com/posts/6334818-going-forward

I will say this. That is an amazing number of references to that time of 9:57pm to maintain the complete ambiguity of what it means.

Here's my take on it. I haven't seen an itemized phone call list in many years, but for itemized long distance billing the list used to be the number that was called, the start time, the duration in minutes, and the charge. For other purposes it might be just the phone number called and the start time.

To have a time supplied that helpfully computes the start time and duration to indicate the last known minute we know of Jennifer's activities would not be something that would be indicated with "last call at". It would be phrased "last call ended at", etc.

All references to the phone call I believe would be to the starting time. The duration of the call was described by bf something along the lines as brief, I would not expect to have lasted very long, a very few minutes, imo.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Sorry I meant she never made it to her destination because she didn't make it to work but she may have had another destination planned at ladt minute the night before that we don't know about.

Also sometimes if im on the phone at night I might be in bed but doesn't mean I'm necessarily in bed for the night I may get up again. As for stepping outside my front door I may venture to my car if i left something in it that I needed like my purse or something valuable for example.

Please don't be sorry. I appreciate the clarification. Thank you.

Sure, you may do all the above things; I may do all the above things; Jennifer possibly could have done any or all of the above things.

However, Jennifer had only lived in her condo two months, and she was uncomfortable with at least some of the workers who she felt were watching her and leering at her/catcalling, etc. (It's been described differently). Also, some of those same workers may have been living in some of the unfinished condos in Jenn's building, although it's unclear whether or not Jenn knew this. Would this make it more likely or less likely that Jenn would go out after talking to her boyfriend around 10 pm?

On the morning of the 23rd, Jen had left her boyfriend's condo in Ft. Lauderdale and driven straight to her job in Ocoee. This is about a three hour drive. She worked until 6 pm. The exact time she reached her condo is unknown, but she stopped to pick-up her mail, and brought at least most of her luggage up to her condo where she just left it in her condo entrance; even the bottle of rum she had bought as a gift for her father. She did take the time to sort her mail, neatly stacking the important things and putting the flyers in the trash. So, I think it might be safe to say it was a long day and she was tired. Would this make it more likely or less likely that Jenn would go out after talking to her boyfriend around 10 pm?

According to her parents, Jennifer used what they call "safe calls" to walk from the gym to her car, or from a mall to her car, or even when the painters were in her condo around the noon hour to do touch-up work. Mr. Kesse said Jennifer would put chairs under her doorknobs at night. Mr. and Mrs. Kesse say Jennifer was very safety conscious since she was a teenager and her friends say she was like "a mother hen" making sure they all stayed together if they had gone out together. Jennifer's brother said that Jenn never really even dated much. There was one female friend that said Jenn had driven some distance--spur of the moment--to comfort her and spend the night, but Jenn wasn't living alone in her condo at that time. Would this make it more likely or less likely that Jenn would go out after talking to her boyfriend around 10 pm?

Jennifer's friend since the 2nd grade revealed that Jennifer had a fear of being taken, or something happening to her and nobody knowing. Would this make it more likely or less likely that Jenn would go out after talking to her boyfriend around 10 pm?

There had been a knock on her door on the evening of the 23rd. Mr. and Mrs. Kesse discovered a can of mace on Jenn's counter. Would this make it more likely or less likely that Jenn would go out after talking to her boyfriend around 10 pm?

 

[Truth Prevails]

I will say this. That is an amazing number of references to that time of 9:57pm to maintain the complete ambiguity of what it means.

Here's my take on it. I haven't seen an itemized phone call list in many years, but for itemized long distance billing the list used to be the number that was called, the start time, the duration in minutes, and the charge. For other purposes it might be just the phone number called and the start time.

To have a time supplied that helpfully computes the start time and duration to indicate the last known minute we know of Jennifer's activities would not be something that would be indicated with "last call at". It would be phrased "last call ended at", etc.

All references to the phone call I believe would be to the starting time. The duration of the call was described by bf something along the lines as brief, I would not expect to have lasted very long, a very few minutes, imo.

Yeah, I'm not suggesting it as fact. I caught a hit of it somewhere, and I found it so interesting that now I'm seeing it everywhere.

If true, and it probably isn't, it makes the timeline for the final events of both cell phones being between 10:20 and 10:40 PM on the 23rd much more workable.

Here is another long article I came across this morning. It's a CNN transcript, but I don't think it's one of the two recently linked. So, a third one, maybe.

Here is a little piece from it:

Snipped quote: GRACE: When was she last on her cell phone?
RING: I believe was at 21:56 on Monday night.
GRACE: Now, why are you talking like that?
RING: I`m sorry!
GRACE: I got to sit here...
RING: It was 9:56.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: OK. So she was on her phone that night, not on her cell phone that morning. How about incoming and outgoing calls at home, from her home phone?
RING: That`s -- you know, we`ve reviewed those, and we`re just kind of keeping that to ourselves as to what that information actually is.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/17/ng.01.html

 

[Questions123]

No it doesnt sound likely but then nothing seems to be typical in this case.

I just thought maybe this was one time she threw caution to the wind perhaps she had a realisation she left her purse or mobile or something of value in the car and didnt feel safe to leave it in her car overnight incase it would get stolen.

Can someone answer me something surrounding possessions that were not found eg briefcase, shoes and 2 mobile phones that we know of. These were never found is that correct? If someone is holding on to these as a trophy someone else must have seen these items before that is known to the perpertrator . Why haven't the police shown photos of these items saying this is what they are looking for or was this done at the time?

 

[liz b.]

Please don't be sorry. I appreciate the clarification. Thank you.

Sure, you may do all the above things; I may do all the above things; Jennifer possibly could have done any or all of the above things.

However, Jennifer had only lived in her condo two months, and she was uncomfortable with at least some of the workers who she felt were watching her and leering at her/catcalling, etc. (It's been described differently). Also, some of those same workers may have been living in some of the unfinished condos in Jenn's building, although it's unclear whether or not Jenn knew this. Would this make it more likely or less likely that Jenn would go out after talking to her boyfriend around 10 pm?

On the morning of the 23rd, Jen had left her boyfriend's condo in Ft. Lauderdale and driven straight to her job in Ocoee. This is about a three hour drive. She worked until 6 pm. The exact time she reached her condo is unknown, but she stopped to pick-up her mail, and brought at least most of her luggage up to her condo where she just left it in her condo entrance; even the bottle of rum she had bought as a gift for her father. She did take the time to sort her mail, neatly stacking the important things and putting the flyers in the trash. So, I think it might be safe to say it was a long day and she was tired. Would this make it more likely or less likely that Jenn would go out after talking to her boyfriend around 10 pm?

According to her parents, Jennifer used what they call "safe calls" to walk from the gym to her car, or from a mall to her car, or even when the painters were in her condo around the noon hour to do touch-up work. Mr. Kesse said Jennifer would put chairs under her doorknobs at night. Mr. and Mrs. Kesse say Jennifer was very safety conscious since she was a teenager and her friends say she was like "a mother hen" making sure they all stayed together if they had gone out together. Jennifer's brother said that Jenn never really even dated much. There was one female friend that said Jenn had driven some distance--spur of the moment--to comfort her and spend the night, but Jenn wasn't living alone in her condo at that time. Would this make it more likely or less likely that Jenn would go out after talking to her boyfriend around 10 pm?

Jennifer's friend since the 2nd grade revealed that Jennifer had a fear of being taken, or something happening to her and nobody knowing. Would this make it more likely or less likely that Jenn would go out after talking to her boyfriend around 10 pm?

There had been a knock on her door on the evening of the 23rd. Mr. and Mrs. Kesse discovered a can of mace on Jenn's counter. Would this make it more likely or less likely that Jenn would go out after talking to her boyfriend around 10 pm?

Perhaps she had arranged to go out that night with someone who came to pick her up.

Is there a photo anywhere of the towel that was used either that night or the next morning when Jen left for work ? Where exactly was the towel ?

 

[rd_jfc]

Please don't be sorry. I appreciate the clarification. Thank you.

Sure, you may do all the above things; I may do all the above things; Jennifer possibly could have done any or all of the above things.

However, Jennifer had only lived in her condo two months, and she was uncomfortable with at least some of the workers who she felt were watching her and leering at her/catcalling, etc. (It's been described differently). Also, some of those same workers may have been living in some of the unfinished condos in Jenn's building, although it's unclear whether or not Jenn knew this. Would this make it more likely or less likely that Jenn would go out after talking to her boyfriend around 10 pm?

On the morning of the 23rd, Jen had left her boyfriend's condo in Ft. Lauderdale and driven straight to her job in Ocoee. This is about a three hour drive. She worked until 6 pm. The exact time she reached her condo is unknown, but she stopped to pick-up her mail, and brought at least most of her luggage up to her condo where she just left it in her condo entrance; even the bottle of rum she had bought as a gift for her father. She did take the time to sort her mail, neatly stacking the important things and putting the flyers in the trash. So, I think it might be safe to say it was a long day and she was tired. Would this make it more likely or less likely that Jenn would go out after talking to her boyfriend around 10 pm?

According to her parents, Jennifer used what they call "safe calls" to walk from the gym to her car, or from a mall to her car, or even when the painters were in her condo around the noon hour to do touch-up work. Mr. Kesse said Jennifer would put chairs under her doorknobs at night. Mr. and Mrs. Kesse say Jennifer was very safety conscious since she was a teenager and her friends say she was like "a mother hen" making sure they all stayed together if they had gone out together. Jennifer's brother said that Jenn never really even dated much. There was one female friend that said Jenn had driven some distance--spur of the moment--to comfort her and spend the night, but Jenn wasn't living alone in her condo at that time. Would this make it more likely or less likely that Jenn would go out after talking to her boyfriend around 10 pm?

Jennifer's friend since the 2nd grade revealed that Jennifer had a fear of being taken, or something happening to her and nobody knowing. Would this make it more likely or less likely that Jenn would go out after talking to her boyfriend around 10 pm?

There had been a knock on her door on the evening of the 23rd. Mr. and Mrs. Kesse discovered a can of mace on Jenn's counter. Would this make it more likely or less likely that Jenn would go out after talking to her boyfriend around 10 pm?

This is an important context for anyone considering her activities after the last phone call. By no means would I think Jennifer "went out" after that in any normal sense of the phrase.

There are two factors here that I find unusual. One is the complete lack of anything in the trash concerning food. For her to have been there all evening, night, and next morning before going to work and not generate any sign of consumption in the kitchen and trash I find very unusual. However if she was not there from 10 pm on then of course it makes a lot more sense.

The other is the request to overnight the friend's phone to him (i.e. get his work phone back to him as soon as she could). I would expect this to be taken care of next day but I also wouldn't be surprised if she were to more or less dump it on the mutual friend who was in the area. We don't know what communications there might have been about that but we also know the police are saying they are withholding information about her phone calls. (Big surprise there.) And she may have just been aware of the friend's normal routine and not even called him.

I would not be surprised that she intended to drive over to the nearby mall to dump the phone on the mutual friend and was accosted. That would be more "taking care of business" than "going out" and for a brief duration. I would expect she was abducted anywhere from her own parking lot to where she drove to, such as the nearby mall where the mutual friend was, but of course didn't get there.

 

[Markybug]

Yeah, I'm not suggesting it as fact. I caught a hit of it somewhere, and I found it so interesting that now I'm seeing it everywhere.

If true, and it probably isn't, it makes the timeline for the final events of both cell phones being between 10:20 and 10:40 PM on the 23rd much more workable.

Here is another long article I came across this morning. It's a CNN transcript, but I don't think it's one of the two recently linked. So, a third one, maybe.

Here is a little piece from it:

Snipped quote: GRACE: When was she last on her cell phone?
RING: I believe was at 21:56 on Monday night.
GRACE: Now, why are you talking like that?
RING: I`m sorry!
GRACE: I got to sit here...
RING: It was 9:56.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: OK. So she was on her phone that night, not on her cell phone that morning. How about incoming and outgoing calls at home, from her home phone?
RING: That`s -- you know, we`ve reviewed those, and we`re just kind of keeping that to ourselves as to what that information actually is.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/17/ng.01.html

So , does that mean a poi phoned jen , or she phoned them? On the evening she was last known to be alive ??..

 

[shelly111]

jeniffer was talking to Rob at 10:00 pm at night, because the pings stopped shortly after this last phone call
maybe the predator was standing outside the building watching her apt ,when he saw the lights turned off he knew jennifer went to bed and he opened the door with a key. Or he was in the apt before jennifer got there.Around 500 -600 pm he walked to her apt.He saw the parking spot is empty so he knew jennifer didn't arrive yet .He opened the door with a key and was hiding in the closet until jennifer went to bed

 

[rd_jfc]

@liz - we can't go there, and there's nothing really that drives us there.

 

[rd_jfc]

jeniffer was talking to Rob at 10:00 pm at night, because the pings stopped shortly after this last phone call
maybe the predator was standing outside the building watching her apt ,when he saw the lights turned off he knew jennifer went to bed and he opened the door with a key. Or he was in the apt before jennifer got there.Around 500 -600 pm he walked to her apt.He saw the parking spot is empty so he knew jennifer didn't arrive yet .He opened the door with a key and was hiding in the closet until jennifer went to bed

There's a lot of truth to this, but note that she was talking on her landline at 10 pm, her cell phone and from what little has been said the friend's cell phone were the phones pinging. There's a lot we don't know.

There was said to be 11 pings identified. There's an implied two towers. (Which ping is right?) Was the time range of those pings arbitrary? Were they after the 10 pm call so focus is on what happened then? Was one of the two towers handling her condo area, for example, all pings before 10 pm (if any) were to same tower? Were none of the pings before 10 pm so that possibly pings obtained were from outside her condo range?

Of course the tower locations are known and also what the normal controlling tower for her condo area at that time. But we don't know that, hence the question. A typical scenario might be some pings before 10 to same tower, some time after 10 another tower was involved and then switched back, implying movement, and last pings of the two phones at whatever time was indicated, said to be between 10:20 and 10:40 pm.

The towers switching before phones went dead is an important indication. It makes it very unlikely that the phones were disabled in her condo and taken with her, more likely the phones were on when driving and then disabled. It makes for a very unlikely scenario to gather the phone from her condo to take with her, along with other stuff, drive some ways and then disable the phones within a few minutes. The phones would likely be on longer if the abductor was establishing a false direction before disabling the phones.

It has all the earmarks of Jennifer taking the stuff with her, driving not far, and being abducted where the abductor disabled the phones in her possession which an abductor with some knowledge would do. There may be a desire to say well if Jennifer didn't go out then someone forced their way in and abducted her, but the cell phone ping information doesn't support that.