FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[Myserty64]

That's fair enough but list what we know; from LE only.

There seems to plenty of scuttlebutt about this that and the other. Where is the proof?

 

[rd_jfc]

That's fair enough but list what we know; from LE only.

There seems to plenty of scuttlebutt about this that and the other. Where is the proof?

I consider the information from the Kesses to be either firsthand or something they've been told off the record by police affiliated sources. Nothing that we know is from scuttlebutt. None of the scuttlebutt is even allowed to be posted here and has no impact on what we know.

Granted, we don't know a lot, but we know there is zero information that Jennifer got up Tuesday morning and made it out to her car, an unseen car, to be accosted by a maintenance worker or anyone else.

The only thing cited by family that implies Tuesday morning presence is a damp shower, and my question is if the shower didn't dry in eight hours during the day, when does it dry?

The fact that many prefer to ignore the cell phone ping evidence is understandable given the family stance on it, but it is what it is, whether accepted or not. There is ping information which stops as Drew Kesse has related, and there is no ping information Tuesday morning. Or anything else that indicates she was around, including a sterile kitchen.

The preferred scenario is comfortable and tempting, but has no basis whatsoever.

 

[flgrl017]

Oh, yes, there has been plenty of speculation about her wall cell phone charger--but no-one knows for sure where it was on the night of the 23rd. We don't know if she brought it with her on her trip; if it stayed packed in her luggage; or how she handled that. About all we know is that Mr. and Mrs. Kesse have said that Jennifer had a cell phone since she was approximately 14-years-old; and they say that in all that time, not once can they remember calling Jenn and having her cell phone go directly to voice mail. I think about that--that means all through her teenage years and all through her university years, she never once was negligent in her responsibility to keeping that cell phone charged.


Another way that I look at the make-up business is this: Jennifer moved away from home when she was about 18-years-old to go to university. So, it had been quite a few years since she lived with her parents--thus, with maybe the exception of her girlfriend who she lived with before buying her condo in November of 2005--who could say if her make-up was set out to be used soon or not? This doesn't make any more sense to me than the damp shower and damp towel tossed over the washer in another area with the door closed. Sadly, I don't think it's reliable evidence of anything.

Now, her contacts were apparently missing, but her glasses were present. Okay, maybe that could be used as evidence that she got ready to go out at some point; if we assume she took them out once she got home. It is quite likely that she did have them out at some point on the evening of the 23rd as she told Rob she was ready for bed.

The night clothes on the bathroom floor; the work outfits laid out on the hastily and/or sloppily made or unmade bed--was it real; was it staging; or are we being led down the garden path away from an evening abduction?

When things seem off that normally indicates staging. I can't think of a scenario that would support everything we know about the pings and apartment. It would be easy for me to go with a morning abduction if it wasn't for the phone pings. To me the pings tell us when she encountered the trouble or was about to. My gut feeling is she had plans with someone or someone she knew showed up at her door.

I can't get past the shower being wet that afternoon. I just don't see that happening even if she showered early that morning.

I think the cell phone charger would be plugged into an outlet close to her bed if she went to bed that night.

Is there any pictures of the makeup? I could definitely see her sitting it out to be there for when she needs it. For me, my makeup looks a lot different when I set it out vs put it on.

The glasses are definitely interesting. I agree and think she would have the glasses on and contacts off if she was ready for bed. Even if she realized something was in her car she needed and went outside for some random reason I would think she wouldn't have gotten ready. Maybe out on regular clothing but that's it.

 

[flgrl017]

I consider the information from the Kesses to be either firsthand or something they've been told off the record by police affiliated sources. Nothing that we know is from scuttlebutt. None of the scuttlebutt is even allowed to be posted here and has no impact on what we know.

Granted, we don't know a lot, but we know there is zero information that Jennifer got up Tuesday morning and made it out to her car, an unseen car, to be accosted by a maintenance worker or anyone else.

The only thing cited by family that implies Tuesday morning presence is a damp shower, and my question is if the shower didn't dry in eight hours during the day, when does it dry?

The fact that many prefer to ignore the cell phone ping evidence is understandable given the family stance on it, but it is what it is, whether accepted or not. There is ping information which stops as Drew Kesse has related, and there is no ping information Tuesday morning. Or anything else that indicates she was around, including a sterile kitchen.

The preferred scenario is comfortable and tempting, but has no basis whatsoever.

How does the family explain the cell phone evidence? I've never heard them speak to it.

 

[Truth Prevails]

When things seem off that normally indicates staging. I can't think of a scenario that would support everything we know about the pings and apartment. It would be easy for me to go with a morning abduction if it wasn't for the phone pings. To me the pings tell us when she encountered the trouble or was about to. My gut feeling is she had plans with someone or someone she knew showed up at her door.

I can't get past the shower being wet that afternoon. I just don't see that happening even if she showered early that morning.

I think the cell phone charger would be plugged into an outlet close to her bed if she went to bed that night.

Is there any pictures of the makeup? I could definitely see her sitting it out to be there for when she needs it. For me, my makeup looks a lot different when I set it out vs put it on.

The glasses are definitely interesting. I agree and think she would have the glasses on and contacts off if she was ready for bed. Even if she realized something was in her car she needed and went outside for some random reason I would think she wouldn't have gotten ready. Maybe out on regular clothing but that's it.

I'll add the picture of Jennifer's bathroom that comes from the special Greta did very early on in 2006--just days after Jennifer disappeared. So, keep that in mind--it's a re-enactment not the real thing. Or, at least, that's what I believe.

If any pictures exist of the actual condition the condo was in when Mr. and Mrs. Kesse first arrived, we haven't seen them. Now, some people say they see a law enforcement officer reflecting from the mirror, but I don't know about that.

I honestly don't believe the Kesses even thought about taking any pictures of how they found the condo--if they had all those flyers and quite large signs ready by rush hour and they only arrived at 3:15 pm they were very busy doing that.

Also, note the towel. It's always been stated that the towel was over the washer in Jenn's laundry room. (Well, sometimes they say "over the dryer".) But never has any mention of a towel folded and placed over the front of the sink been mentioned, except that one appears in this picture.

Lastly, I hope you let us know your thoughts on the make-up.

I notice what I would call a travel case for shampoo, probably contact solution, etc., behind the tap. If that is Jennifer's, it looks to me like she just grabbed it from her suitcase (probably to get her contact solution) and set it there. I would venture an opinion that the eye-shadows were always kept where they appear in the photo. (If that is what I'm seeing).

Anyway, here it is: (Click to enlarge or use link).

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/jjkimages/media/bWVkaWFJZDozMjg5Mzc5/?ref=1

 

[Truth Prevails]

How does the family explain the cell phone evidence? I've never heard them speak to it.

I don't think you would have to go very far back in this thread to find the transcriptions I did from an interview Mr. Kesse gave in September of 2017 and also one from an interview that Mrs. Kesse gave in April of 2017.

I have posted and linked them so many times I'm embarrassed to do it again. The transcriptions are surprisingly lengthy.

But if no-one else jumps in and lets you know where you can find anything on this, and you're still interested, mention it again and I'll re-post my linked transcriptions.

They are not scuttlebutt.

 

[shelly111]

it really seems unlikely the shower will be wet after 8 hours.
i live in florida and my shower gets dry very fast.,like 3-4 hours .
whoever kidnapped jennifet came back to her apt, maybe he heard the kesses are on their way,he opened the shower so it looked like jennifer took one in the morning,he wet the towel and fold it,etc.
He wore gloves not to leave fingerprint
Maybe he came to the apt in the morning before the two office workers went there or maybe he was one of them .

 

[Markybug]

it really seems unlikely the shower will be wet after 8 hours.
i live in florida and my shower gets dry very fast.,like 3-4 hours .
whoever kidnapped jennifet came back to her apt, maybe he heard the kesses are on their way,he opened the shower so it looked like jennifer took one in the morning,he wet the towel and fold it,etc.
He wore gloves not to leave fingerprint
Maybe he came to the apt in the morning before the two office workers went there or maybe he was one of them .

It all sounds , if all we are assuming is correct , so planned and meticulous?

For either a crime of opportunity or a crime of passion?

 

[fridaybaker]

I'll add the picture of Jennifer's bathroom that comes from the special Greta did very early on in 2006--just days after Jennifer disappeared. So, keep that in mind--it's a re-enactment not the real thing. Or, at least, that's what I believe.

If any pictures exist of the actual condition the condo was in when Mr. and Mrs. Kesse first arrived, we haven't seen them. Now, some people say they see a law enforcement officer reflecting from the mirror, but I don't know about that.

I honestly don't believe the Kesses even thought about taking any pictures of how they found the condo--if they had all those flyers and quite large signs ready by rush hour and they only arrived at 3:15 pm they were very busy doing that.

Also, note the towel. It's always been stated that the towel was over the washer in Jenn's laundry room. (Well, sometimes they say "over the dryer".) But never has any mention of a towel folded and placed over the front of the sink been mentioned, except that one appears in this picture.

Lastly, I hope you let us know your thoughts on the make-up.

I notice what I would call a travel case for shampoo, probably contact solution, etc., behind the tap. If that is Jennifer's, it looks to me like she just grabbed it from her suitcase (probably to get her contact solution) and set it there. I would venture an opinion that the eye-shadows were always kept where they appear in the photo. (If that is what I'm seeing).

Anyway, here it is: (Click to enlarge or use link).

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/jjkimages/media/bWVkaWFJZDozMjg5Mzc5/?ref=1

Photos of folded clothing on the bed aren't consistent with laying clothing "options" out for work, but are with unpacking. I'm leaning more toward her being "on the bed" rather than really "in bed" complete with p.j.'s, etc. that evening. She'd have things on hangers spread out on the bed, not a stack of folded clothes. Vast experience with room mates, friends, self, etc.

 

[Ozoner]

it really seems unlikely the shower will be wet after 8 hours.
i live in florida and my shower gets dry very fast.,like 3-4 hours .
whoever kidnapped jennifet came back to her apt, maybe he heard the kesses are on their way,he opened the shower so it looked like jennifer took one in the morning,he wet the towel and fold it,etc.
He wore gloves not to leave fingerprint
Maybe he came to the apt in the morning before the two office workers went there or maybe he was one of them .

Refresh my memory, was the bathroom door open or closed, if it was closed with minimal air circulation, then the shower could have easily stayed wet for longer than eight hours. Towels on the floor could stay wet for over 24 hours.

 

[shelly111]

i don''t know if the bathroom door was open or closed
anyone ?

 

[flgrl017]

I'll add the picture of Jennifer's bathroom that comes from the special Greta did very early on in 2006--just days after Jennifer disappeared. So, keep that in mind--it's a re-enactment not the real thing. Or, at least, that's what I believe.

If any pictures exist of the actual condition the condo was in when Mr. and Mrs. Kesse first arrived, we haven't seen them. Now, some people say they see a law enforcement officer reflecting from the mirror, but I don't know about that.

I honestly don't believe the Kesses even thought about taking any pictures of how they found the condo--if they had all those flyers and quite large signs ready by rush hour and they only arrived at 3:15 pm they were very busy doing that.

Also, note the towel. It's always been stated that the towel was over the washer in Jenn's laundry room. (Well, sometimes they say "over the dryer".) But never has any mention of a towel folded and placed over the front of the sink been mentioned, except that one appears in this picture.

Lastly, I hope you let us know your thoughts on the make-up.

I notice what I would call a travel case for shampoo, probably contact solution, etc., behind the tap. If that is Jennifer's, it looks to me like she just grabbed it from her suitcase (probably to get her contact solution) and set it there. I would venture an opinion that the eye-shadows were always kept where they appear in the photo. (If that is what I'm seeing).

Anyway, here it is: (Click to enlarge or use link).

View attachment 134007 http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/jjkimages/media/bWVkaWFJZDozMjg5Mzc5/?ref=1

Thanks for the photo and I'll find the post with the info.
From this photo it doesn't appear like she just got ready. It appears like she grabbed her tolietry bag out of her suitcase for something and set it behind the faucet.

I don't see eyeshadow. Between the 2 sinks I see a powder container (like bare minerals maybe), contacts case, and toothpaste. The photo is very blurry on my iPad though.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Thanks for the photo and I'll find the post with the info.
From this photo it doesn't appear like she just got ready. It appears like she grabbed her tolietry bag out of her suitcase for something and set it behind the faucet.

I don't see eyeshadow. Between the 2 sinks I see a powder container (like bare minerals maybe), contacts case, and toothpaste. The photo is very blurry on my iPad though.

The photo is blurry--it's definitely not your iPad.

I'll keep my eye out for a clearer one.

Thank you for your observations--you see some things there I wasn't seeing, but now that you point it out, I agree. Do you see any signs of her glasses?

 

[Truth Prevails]

i don''t know if the bathroom door was open or closed
anyone ?

At least once, one of the Kesses (I think it was Mrs. but not sure) said they believed the bathroom door was opened when they arrived. They weren't sure because by the time they thought to note it, there was a possibility someone had altered it--either in their search for Jenn or to simply use the facilities.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Refresh my memory, was the bathroom door open or closed, if it was closed with minimal air circulation, then the shower could have easily stayed wet for longer than eight hours. Towels on the floor could stay wet for over 24 hours.

There was no report of towels on the floor. A t-shirt and a pair lady's underwear was said to be on the floor near the shower area.

The damp towel was in the laundry room, laid out over the washer to dry.

I posted this image before, but do so again here as I find it interesting to note the location of the "utility room" which I presume is the washer/dryer room; and the bathroom/shower area.

 

[Markybug]

There was no report of towels on the floor. A t-shirt and a pair lady's underwear was said to be on the floor near the shower area.

The damp towel was in the laundry room, laid out over the washer to dry.

I posted this image before, but do so again here as I find it interesting to note the location of the "utility room" which I presume is the washer/dryer room; and the bathroom/shower area.

View attachment 134020

Am i reading that as , wet towel placed in utility room to dry off (not put in machine?) but night clothes left on bathroom floor ?

 

[Ozoner]

Based on the location of the utility room, a damp towel on the dryer wouldn't surprise me; it doesn't look like there was much air circulation.

I wouldn't be surprised if the perp went back to Jen's apartment to stage things.

Was it normal for Jen to drape a damp towel over the dryer?

 

[Truth Prevails]

Am i reading that as , wet towel placed in utility room to dry off (not put in machine?) but night clothes left on bathroom floor ?

Yes, I'm 99.9% sure that is exactly what Mrs. Kesse said. (I never like to say I'm 100% sure of anything).

Wet towel laid out over the washer to dry--not inside. Night clothes on the bathroom floor near the shower.

If you don't mind being a little bit patient, I'll find a link to support that. It won't take long, I'm just a little busy for a few days. I'd really like to confirm it again for my own records. (Or it would be great if someone jumps in with a link).

I personally always found it a little bit strange, but most people really don't.

I'd also like to find a supporting link indicating those pictures are only a reenactment and a rather poor reenactment. Can you imagine pictures from law enforcement not showing the clothes on the bathroom floor; not showing the towel over the washer; not showing Jennifer's glasses; not showing the two skirts and a pair of slacks laid out on the bed? Bed sloppily made; bed unmade?

They should have had pictures of all that; but I honestly don't think they do because I think it was all moved before law enforcement arrived. (But I do keep in mind that if they do have pictures, they would not release them). I'm pretty sure they have more of the vehicle, i.e., the trunk interior.

I hope it's my second point, but I do doubt it.

Here is the picture of her luggage. I don't know if you have seen it before, but see it all unzipped? And it looks like that could be her purse right there in the front compartment--but they said that purse was missing and then they said they found it when they eventually got around to unpacking her things.

And they say she didn't unpack anything, but if that is the way they found it, it appears to me as if she may have at least quickly pulled a few things from it.

It's so hard to really know--and I know this is a very unpopular opinion, but I can see what a difficult position this must have put law enforcement in. Law enforcement clearly indicated Jennifer's vehicle was the crime scene, but her condo should have been gone over by a forensic team before Jenn's family was allowed in. It wouldn't have taken them that long--just a few days, if that.

 

[Markybug]

Yes, I'm 99.9% sure that is exactly what Mrs. Kesse said. (I never like to say I'm 100% sure of anything).

Wet towel laid out over the washer to dry--not inside. Night clothes on the bathroom floor near the shower.

If you don't mind being a little bit patient, I'll find a link to support that. It won't take long, I'm just a little busy for a few days. I'd really like to confirm it again for my own records. (Or it would be great if someone jumps in with a link).

I personally always found it a little bit strange, but most people really don't.

I'd also like to find a supporting link indicating those pictures are only a reenactment and a rather poor reenactment. Can you imagine pictures from law enforcement not showing the clothes on the bathroom floor; not showing the towel over the washer; not showing Jennifer's glasses; not showing the two skirts and a pair of slacks laid out on the bed? Bed sloppily made; bed unmade?

They should have had pictures of all that; but I honestly don't think they do because I think it was all moved before law enforcement arrived. (But I do keep in mind that if they do have pictures, they would not release them). I'm pretty sure they have more of the vehicle, i.e., the trunk interior.

I hope it's my second point, but I do doubt it.

Here is the picture of her luggage. I don't know if you have seen it before, but see it all unzipped? And it looks like that could be her purse right there in the front compartment--but they said that purse was missing and then they said they found it when they eventually got around to unpacking her things.

And they say she didn't unpack anything, but if that is the way they found it, it appears to me as if she may have at least quickly pulled a few things from it.

It's so hard to really know--and I know this is a very unpopular opinion, but I can see what a difficult position this must have put law enforcement in. Law enforcement clearly indicated Jennifer's vehicle was the crime scene, but her condo should have been gone over by a forensic team before Jenn's family was allowed in. It wouldn't have taken them that long--just a few days, if that.

View attachment 134068

I was thinking it strange to put a towel away to dry , but leaving your nightclothes on the floor ? Ie why not tidy or hang up everything? But if the scene is not accurate it’s irrelevant.

If it is “as found” , could jen have been showering and someone entered?

 

[Questions123]

I've tried to think of different scenarios about how Jen was taken and I really think she was taken by someone known to her. If she didn't answer a knock the neighbour I cant imagine her answering to a stranger late that night.
I think the previous comment about someone watching her movements and
would know this night time block would be opportune because no one would be looking for her is spot on.

I also googled chloroform as this was a previous theory for no signs of a struggle in the condo and it takes approximately 5 minutes of being held to the face to render a person unconscious. That is a long time when you count it and I cannot imagine this scenario if the fbi profiling height is correct for poi and based on Jens height and strength including moving her down stairs. It's possible but unlikely.

If the offender is known then an old boyfriend or co worker for example would have an update on the case because perhaps they were contacted eg co worker msg by another co worker to say have you heard Jen is missing or family friends contacting people could give this person a heads up to move the car otherwise this is jst sheer luck that the Kesse's arrived just after the car was moved. I don't believe the offender hung around her apartment until morning too risky with workers and leaving evidence behind. All imo only.

If the bathroom door was closed (Kesse's cant confirm or unconfirm) and based on weather conditions for that date is there any possibility the shower could remain wet?