FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[liz b.]

True enough, "quick" was probably the method used for either a stranger abduction or someone known to her.

I always keep an eye open for a theory that could fit that strange search they did early on in the case where it was reported that a "scent" was found in the woods. And if my memory is supplying me with the correct information, it was a big search--all experienced searchers, horses, dogs. Pretty much everything. And apparently the dog that found the "scent" was a different dog, not Bo.

But it really seemed to me that it was Jennifer they were looking for in the field, not the POI.


BBM - sure would be. Your comment makes me think maybe the chlorine in the pool could have thrown him off. Thanks.

That search in the woods seems to be really important. The scent hounds "hit" on Jennifer's scent. Therefore, Jennifer was alive when she was taken into those woods. I wonder if this was an anonymous tip ? If so, the caller/emailer knew something about the crime. Or, did they just see a girl who they believed was Jennifer being led into the woods ? I have never read anything more about this, but in it's own way, it is a vital piece of information.

 

[liz b.]

If this was a carefully planned abduction, I wonder why they picked Tuesday ? Had they been stalking Jennifer, watching her routine carefully, why pick the very day that the landscapers came to work right next to her car, and so close to her condo ? As Mr. Kesse said " they came every Tuesday at 7 30 am, like clockwork " and they would see Jennifer walking to her car. To me, this is just a further indication that she was taken at night, and both she and her car were long gone that Tuesday morning at 7 30 am.

 

[SpanishMossAntiques]

I just do not think it was carefully planned at all, but rather an opportunity that presented itself - by someone she knew very, very well. I simply do not think this was a stranger abduction...

If this was a carefully planned abduction, I wonder why they picked Tuesday ? Had they been stalking Jennifer, watching her routine carefully, why pick the very day that the landscapers came to work right next to her car, and so close to her condo ? As Mr. Kesse said " they came every Tuesday at 7 30 am, like clockwork " and they would see Jennifer walking to her car. To me, this is just a further indication that she was taken at night, and both she and her car were long gone that Tuesday morning at 7 30 am.

 

[Shin Masamura]

If this was a carefully planned abduction, I wonder why they picked Tuesday ? Had they been stalking Jennifer, watching her routine carefully, why pick the very day that the landscapers came to work right next to her car, and so close to her condo ? As Mr. Kesse said " they came every Tuesday at 7 30 am, like clockwork " and they would see Jennifer walking to her car. To me, this is just a further indication that she was taken at night, and both she and her car were long gone that Tuesday morning at 7 30 am.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Monday night was her first night back at her condo. She got back from her trip with Rob Sunday, went directly to work from his place, then came home afterwords. I always wondered if the "Trip" triggered anger in someone and was expecting her home Sunday night instead. As for Tuesday morning, they might not of been aware of said gardeners. This seems somewhat planned out meaning maybe it didnt initially start out as an abduction, but escalated to such.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Monday night was her first night back at her condo. She got back from her trip with Rob Sunday, went directly to work from his place, then came home afterwords. I always wondered if the "Trip" triggered anger in someone and was expecting her home Sunday night instead. As for Tuesday morning, they might not of been aware of said gardeners. This seems somewhat planned out meaning maybe it didnt initially start out as an abduction, but escalated to such.

I agree with your timeline as to Monday night being Jennifer's first night back in her own condo, alone, after the trip.

One might also ask why not a Monday night [or a Tuesday morning]. Could it be something so simple as a Monday night [or a Tuesday morning] were good times for the perpetrator--maybe he had Monday and Tuesday off work instead of the more traditional Saturday and Sunday.

Also--assuming for the moment that this was not a random abduction--with Jennifer traveling to Rob in Fort Lauderdale one weekend and Rob traveling to Jennifer in Orlando the next; a weekend abduction would have been pretty much doomed to failure.

As we know from Mr. Kesse, when Rob stayed in Orlando he always stayed over Sunday night and left Monday morning--as Jennifer did, only opposite.

Not much has ever been said about when their weekends actually began. Some young professionals have flexible schedules, especially if considering every two weeks. It's possible Thursday after the work day could have been their travel time.

So, if someone was planing to abduct Jennifer, possibly Monday night, Tuesday night [or morning], or Wednesday night [or morning], would have offered the best possibilities.

But, I think one of Jennifer's long time girl friends said it best; the burning question:

@ about 19:14 minutes in:
Lindsey: I don’t know. I don’t know. I think that at this point going to meet someone that she knew is entirely possible. But, she would never go meet someone she didn’t know.

So, to say that she was going to bed—she called people; she said goodnight, and then did she go to bed? I don’t know. Right? That’s the burning question—then what happened? What happened after she said: “I love you, good night”?
Audioboom / Jennifer Joyce Kesse

 

[liz b.]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Monday night was her first night back at her condo. She got back from her trip with Rob Sunday, went directly to work from his place, then came home afterwords. I always wondered if the "Trip" triggered anger in someone and was expecting her home Sunday night instead. As for Tuesday morning, they might not of been aware of said gardeners. This seems somewhat planned out meaning maybe it didnt initially start out as an abduction, but escalated to such.[/QUOTE

Good points you make. I'm leaning towards it being people connected to her condo. Somewhat of an impulse act, but surely something that one or more people had discussed as a fantasy. The whole abduction and aftermath seems to have taken place in a small area around Jennifer's condo. I am searching for the news information about the scent hound "hitting" in the wooded area. I would love to know how close/far it was from the condo. It doesn't really make sense for Jennifer to have been taken into the woods, and then brought out of those same woods alive. Wonder if LE will ever go back and search there again ?

 

[Truth Prevails]

Good points you make. I'm leaning towards it being people connected to her condo. Somewhat of an impulse act, but surely something that one or more people had discussed as a fantasy. The whole abduction and aftermath seems to have taken place in a small area around Jennifer's condo. I am searching for the news information about the scent hound "hitting" in the wooded area. I would love to know how close/far it was from the condo. It doesn't really make sense for Jennifer to have been taken into the woods, and then brought out of those same woods alive. Wonder if LE will ever go back and search there again ?

BBM - I have a little on that, but not much.

I think in the following one they are talking about the woods, or brush area surrounding the HOG. (Sorry the link doesn't work anymore).

Snipped quote:

Sweep Woods For Woman After Scent Picked Up

UPDATED: January 30, 2006

Police officers in Orlando, Fla., continued a search of a heavily wooded area Monday near the location where 24-year-old Jennifer Kesse's abandoned car was discovered last week after a scent was picked up in the area, according to a Local 6 News report.

Kesse, who works for Westgate Resorts in the Orlando suburb of Ocoee, Fla., is considered a missing and endangered adult after she mysteriously vanished last week.

"One of the two strongest clues that the Orlando Police Department is sharing with the media is the scent that was picked up in the woods," Local 6 News reporter Samantha Knapp said.

Sunday, officers on horseback methodically went through the brush near a condominium complex in southwest Orlando where Kesse's 2004 Chevrolet Malibu was located. ...
http://www.local6.com/news/6587477/detail.html
____________________

But then, in 2009 (at least I think they are talking about 2009), notice the different area given but dogs hit there, too.

Rough transcript from portion of video:
“Wesh 2 reporter live now where this new search is happening. It’s near the intersection of OBT (Orange Blossom Trail) and Oakridge. So, David, tell me what lead police search teams to that area?” “Well, they are really only saying that they have had a tip that takes them to this area. Now, they point out that they have had a thousand leads since her disappearance, but, obviously, this is a tip that they believe is very credible. We want to zoom in—we want to show you the area that is central to the search. We can tell you after talking more extensively with police and actually talking with Jennifer’s father that cadaver dogs came in here. Dogs with a good track record and they have hit on this area. And that is exactly why the search has intensified.”
Audioboom / Breadcrumbs
____________________

So, I don't know; but I think you make a good point on this. How many old cases do we see where they came so close to finding the victim in an early search, but somehow just missed.

Even the Elizabeth Smart case comes to mind--they were searching so close, she could hear them calling her.

Also, there was one more search noted as a field but it is the site of a huge Walmart today. If you haven't listened to the podcast link before, it explains about it and most of the searches. You might find it interesting.

 

[liz b.]

BBM - I have a little on that, but not much.

I think in the following one they are talking about the woods, or brush area surrounding the HOG. (Sorry the link doesn't work anymore).

Snipped quote:

Sweep Woods For Woman After Scent Picked Up

UPDATED: January 30, 2006

Police officers in Orlando, Fla., continued a search of a heavily wooded area Monday near the location where 24-year-old Jennifer Kesse's abandoned car was discovered last week after a scent was picked up in the area, according to a Local 6 News report.

Kesse, who works for Westgate Resorts in the Orlando suburb of Ocoee, Fla., is considered a missing and endangered adult after she mysteriously vanished last week.

"One of the two strongest clues that the Orlando Police Department is sharing with the media is the scent that was picked up in the woods," Local 6 News reporter Samantha Knapp said.

Sunday, officers on horseback methodically went through the brush near a condominium complex in southwest Orlando where Kesse's 2004 Chevrolet Malibu was located. ...
http://www.local6.com/news/6587477/detail.html
____________________

But then, in 2009 (at least I think they are talking about 2009), notice the different area given but dogs hit there, too.

Rough transcript from portion of video:
“Wesh 2 reporter live now where this new search is happening. It’s near the intersection of OBT (Orange Blossom Trail) and Oakridge. So, David, tell me what lead police search teams to that area?” “Well, they are really only saying that they have had a tip that takes them to this area. Now, they point out that they have had a thousand leads since her disappearance, but, obviously, this is a tip that they believe is very credible. We want to zoom in—we want to show you the area that is central to the search. We can tell you after talking more extensively with police and actually talking with Jennifer’s father that cadaver dogs came in here. Dogs with a good track record and they have hit on this area. And that is exactly why the search has intensified.”
Audioboom / Breadcrumbs
____________________

So, I don't know; but I think you make a good point on this. How many old cases do we see where they came so close to finding the victim in an early search, but somehow just missed.

Even the Elizabeth Smart case comes to mind--they were searching so close, she could hear them calling her.

Also, there was one more search noted as a field but it is the site of a huge Walmart today. If you haven't listened to the podcast link before, it explains about it and most of the searches. You might find it interesting.

 

[liz b.]

Yes, it is really interesting. I find the dogs "hitting" in the area behind the HOTG condos especially interesting. Perhaps it explains POI parking Jennifer's car there. The men who killed her probably believed she would be found where they buried her. That, plus the car being there would have placed all the heat on HOTG, and away from Jennifer's condo. Possibly Jennifer was taken into an empty apartment at her condo complex. There surely was a reason why it all took place in such a small area. I wonder if the POI had a vehicle ? did he use Jennifer's vehicle to transport her body from her condo complex ? Did the POI and any of his helpers have to stay close by the area of her condo complex. Why ? Did they work there ?

 

[liz b.]

Also, I read that there was mud on the undercarriage of Jennifer's vehicle, and at the bottom of the vehicle. So they drove along an area off of the paved road. Didn't have time to clean it properly, Maybe paid more attention to wiping down the inside of the vehicle, dumping it at HOTG, and hurrying back to work at Jennifer's condo complex.

 

[JnRyan]

I'm running dry on theories right now outside of what I've posted here, but I like the fact that the discussion is steady. I would hope it would be like this in the minds of the Orlando citizens. I want this criminal to keep looking over their shoulder.

 

[Markybug]

Yes, it is really interesting. I find the dogs "hitting" in the area behind the HOTG condos especially interesting. Perhaps it explains POI parking Jennifer's car there. The men who killed her probably believed she would be found where they buried her. That, plus the car being there would have placed all the heat on HOTG, and away from Jennifer's condo. Possibly Jennifer was taken into an empty apartment at her condo complex. There surely was a reason why it all took place in such a small area. I wonder if the POI had a vehicle ? did he use Jennifer's vehicle to transport her body from her condo complex ? Did the POI and any of his helpers have to stay close by the area of her condo complex. Why ? Did they work there ?

Could explain the coincidence of her car getting parked at HOG so soon after her parents alerted management of her complex ?

 

[Truth Prevails]

We were discussing this image a couple of pages back but I'm not at all sure it was as close to Jennifer's condo as I once thought:

Transcript beginning about 4:49,
Gurd: I want to clarify what was going on at the Mosaic at Millenia at the time of Jennifer’s disappearance.

The condo building was in the final stages of being converted from apartments into condos—undergoing a facelift, if you will. So there was a lot of “finishing type” construction—paint and trim, carpeting and flooring, landscaping; that kind of thing.

However, there was an apartment building under construction directly to the north of the Mosaic buildings. In fact, for those of you who have seen the photos online that claim to be of Mosaic at the time of Jennifer’s disappearance—photos that show framing construction, and unpaved parking lots—those aren’t actually Mosaic.

They are the neighboring apartments to the north. However, you can see the Mosaic buildings in the background of the photo and it is misleading.

Anyways, there was the kind of construction going on with cement loaders and framing and all of that, but it wasn’t actually at Mosaic. However, it was nearby.
Audioboom / Sidebar / 8.7.17

I found this very tiny picture of the Mosaic at Millenia. I enlarged it so that's why it appears a bit fuzzy. The red question mark is where I think Jennifer's condo building is in the complex, but I think the building shown in the picture above would be further away as it is apparently not in Jennifer's complex: (Further away but to the north, which is the side where I put the question mark).

Anyway--to make things even more confusing--nothing here really matches with what I see when I look at Google maps. So I'm not sure of the accuracy of anything; but the point I really find interesting is: could Jennifer have somehow been taken to the building under full construction in her own vehicle sometime during the night? I wonder if the mud under her vehicle would match that area.

No matter exactly where the building under full construction was, it wasn't far; and it would still be close enough to the HOG for convenient disposal parking and a walk.

I suppose it would have been too "iffy" for LE to check unless they had come across something (like matching mud) to indicate involvement?

 

[Markybug]

Are both complexes linked in any way? Ie ownership or shared construction staff?

Also would workers have been staying on site at night there too ?

As time goes on , i find myself leaning more towards a worker/s involvement. Especially if the story about a worker claiming jenn told him to “lock up when finished “ is factual?

 

[Truth Prevails]

Are both complexes linked in any way? Ie ownership or shared construction staff?

Also would workers have been staying on site at night there too ?

As time goes on , i find myself leaning more towards a worker/s involvement. Especially if the story about a worker claiming jenn told him to “lock up when finished “ is factual?

About the complexes being linked in any way--I was wondering that, too; I suspect so, but I can't confirm it.

I believe it is true about the "worker" claiming Jenn told him to "lock up when finished". That comes from Mr. Kesse--that's the one he refers to as the "painter" doing touch up work in Jennifer's condo. Apparently, approximately two years later (iirc), he was convicted of sexual assault--but he passed a lie detector test concerning Jennifer's case. So, it leaves us wondering, I guess.

Also, there is a reporter who has been following Jennifer's case since the beginning, and she said (in one of the TV documentaries) that she would like to take the painter and his friend and turn them upside down and shake them until they told the truth. She feels they know something--at the very least.

 

[liz b.]

Could explain the coincidence of her car getting parked at HOG so soon after her parents alerted management of her complex ?

Could be. I was also interested in Jennifer's brother's account of trying to talk to some workers in a van at her condo the day she disappeared. They would not talk to him at all. Maybe word spread fast that someone had taken and killed Jennifer .

 

[Markybug]

Could be. I was also interested in Jennifer's brother's account of trying to talk to some workers in a van at her condo the day she disappeared. They would not talk to him at all. Maybe word spread fast that someone had taken and killed Jennifer .

Good thought , i always assumed it could be because the van was somehow involved ? But it could simply be they were scared of getting dragged into something they knew about , but had nothing to do with.

 

[JnRyan]

Could be. I was also interested in Jennifer's brother's account of trying to talk to some workers in a van at her condo the day she disappeared. They would not talk to him at all. Maybe word spread fast that someone had taken and killed Jennifer .

And do we really know, given LE's original hesitation to do an investigation, if they talked to ALL the workers? I'll bet LE is not sure. If we are talking about the possibility of undocumented laborers, they could have been paid cash 'under the table'. In those instances there are no payroll records of some individuals.

 

[rd_jfc]

Even without getting into no contacts from phones all night and Tuesday morning, the worker thing of abducting Jennifer and driving her somewhere, where her remains have not been found to this day, then driving her car a mile up the road and parking it and walking back down the road to return is not the behavior of an anonymous murderer, especially an illegal immigrant or undocumented worker, not on official payroll, etc.

Do you have any idea what it takes to walk back down Americana to Mosaic, crossing John Young along the way? Do you have any idea what it takes to cross John Young? Do you think an illegal immigrant who just kidnapped and murdered an Amrican woman is going to walk down a major road for a mile back to the scene of the crime, being exposed as much as one can be exposed in the difficult crossing of a major throughway, because the illegal immigrant just wants to outsmart the cops so badly?

Where does this illegal immigrant meets Columbo thing come from? Yes, I know the answer is wishful thinking, but we should be beyond that after 12 years.

 

[liz b.]

Even without getting into no contacts from phones all night and Tuesday morning, the worker thing of abducting Jennifer and driving her somewhere, where her remains have not been found to this day, then driving her car a mile up the road and parking it and walking back down the road to return is not the behavior of an anonymous murderer, especially an illegal immigrant or undocumented worker, not on official payroll, etc.

Do you have any idea what it takes to walk back down Americana to Mosaic, crossing John Young along the way? Do you have any idea what it takes to cross John Young? Do you think an illegal immigrant who just kidnapped and murdered an Amrican woman is going to walk down a major road for a mile back to the scene of the crime, being exposed as much as one can be exposed in the difficult crossing of a major throughway, because the illegal immigrant just wants to outsmart the cops so badly?

Where does this illegal immigrant meets Columbo thing come from? Yes, I know the answer is wishful thinking, but we should be beyond that after 12 years.

I didn't ever say that I thought he/they were illegals. I have only said that they were likely connected to Jennifer's condo in some way, probably work. But, the workers'behanvior had bothered Jennifer enough for her to complain both to her BF and her father. And some were actually living there.