FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #3

[leftcoast]

Good comments everyone

If you just think about this logically, two things come to mind

There are stalkers out there, and they use the person's car to track where they are. That is why garages are so important, people can't tell if you are home or not. I hate carports, etc.

Anyway, if someone was stalking JK, and following her, they could have been looking for her car, and simply noticed it was back on Monday pm, hatched the plan, parked next to her, etc.

the other possibility is that a maintenance worker, etc. had been a "peeping tom" type of thing. With all the open condo's (according to Greta) around Jk, a worker could have been hiding in one of the units, waited for the door to open, etc.

I'm not going to criticize the police, especially homicide, they have a horrible job.

But, if I could request one thing in this case, I would have done the following

I would have released that photo WITHOUT any height, weight, etc. estimates, and asked anyone if they know this person.

then, a week later, I would have released height estimates

then, a week later, that video should have been released.

You have to hit it when its' hot. When JK's case was getting all that publicity, you need to keep releasing information to keep the case on tv and in print

Plus, there are people who won't call in someone simply because he was walking by a scene. I really think LE should have said "we have proof this person is responsible for JK's disappearance".

Anyway, I'm glad Orlando PD gave in and released the video. Thanks to Orlando PD from all of us, for working this case, and DON"T give up. this dirtbag needs to be caught, not only for JK, but, if he was that good, it wasn't the first time.

thanks to everyone for the great comments.

I finally have hope this case will be solved within the next couple of months.

left

 

[leftcoast]

You are a very good guesser left and as they say first choice is often the best! lol

I was thinking about the case tonight and really the next few days are so critical for leads.
I feel the impact of this new video will be very short lived.

Where did the suspect come from?
If it was a morning abduction did he emerge from the woods behind Mosaic?
Was he waiting under the staircase?
Was his vehicle parked next to Jennifers?
Was he working at Mosaic?
Had he followed Jennifer home at some stage and then stalked her without her even knowing?
There are numerous possibilities.

Because the abduction was so clean (lack of evidence and witnesses) I'm inclined to believe it was planned.

Is there video evidence from other cameras in the area that show Jennifer in the car as either a driver or a passenger?
If she was driven out of the Mosaic complex you would think that someone noticed something.

Finally, the suspect also had a lot of luck. In the first photos released of him his face was obscured by a post.
Surely his luck is due to turn sour and it better be next week.

thanks Mystery,

very interesting about the dogs.

Ya know, we all are thinking ex-boyfriends, maitanance worker, etc.

who is to say that some weirdo just followed her home from the grocery store or work some night, and started watching her. Mystery has a good point.

This scenario does make some sense.

Ya know, maybe this clown was impersonating the police, or security, etc. Not all perp.s are stupid.

I know in some cases a perp. will say, I won't hurt you, all I need is a ride to so and so, and a few dollars, and the victim will cooperate because they feel they can escape the situation.

good points mystery

I predict this case gets solved very, very, soon

I think LE has a partial print, from that car, maybe on the gear shift, the outside of the door, that can tie the suspect to that car. then, he is history.

for the record, I am concluding that noon is the correct time. Twp simple reasons. You wouldn't expect that many empty parking spaces at night at a complex, and I'm certain LE checked those camera's.

left

 

[leftcoast]

Oh, one other note

There was a lot of bickering about the dogs the last few months.

Now, that we have proof of that video,

Can we all agree, if the dogs followed the same route as the suspect, around the pool fence, past the gate, etc. and back toward JK's condo, that it is 99.9% likely those dogs were tracking correctly that day?

This video is an excellent test for that dog. It is proof whether or not that dog is effective.

left

 

[Enrique Sparta]

thanks myserty, i forgot that i could go to 'full screen' much better view that way. still so difficult, it would be a lot better if the camera didn't skip every second or whatever. how lucky is it for the suspect that the camera blocks their face when he walks by the fence, never once do we see him/her between the two thick metal bars.

re: the bloodhounds.....I do think the dog was accurate but isn't it possible they picked up JK's scent and not the suspect's? and that's why the dog went back to the condo? i dunno, how they would be able to know for sure what the dog was picking up. it is interesting that the dog went back to JK's place. Does anybody know for sure where the dog stopped? the stairs? her front door? a neighbor's door? and wasn't there an odd route the dog took on the way back?

last night when i was laying in bed i thought about how creepy it would be if I heard somebody try using a key to open my door. think about that, not just a break-in but somebody thinking they have a way to get in your home the same way you do. I can't remember where this was first reported that JK heard someone trying to get in at night. Anyone remember? Is this true?

 

[Taximom]

I have barely kept up with this case, but sure wish the video had been released earlier. It might have made the *$%&*# suspect a little more nervous back then, which someone else might have noticed and turned him in.

Hopefully he's nervous now.

 

[Belle]

I remember it was someone from Jennifer's work saying that a few weeks before she had commented that someone had tried to get into the condo. I can't remember if it was just she heard someone at the door, or that they used a key.

 

[rd_jfc]

Myserty64 wrote:
This case needs all the help it can get, even strong rumors.

This is what I wrote on my site at the time. Might have already been discounted here, might be food for thought:

I saw coverage on Jennifer on Nancy Grace last night. A lot of details, but essentially her car was found a mile away at another complex, ala Taylor Behl. It was found on Thursday.

The video still was of a man on Wednesday early afternoon, I believe, a day or two after Jennifer disappeared. Bottom line is it sounds like it was brought back later and parked nearby, within walking distance back to Jennifer's apartment complex area.

Since Jennifer's makeup and different clothes were out and she had just come back from a holiday with her boyfriend, there was a strong presumption on the show that she got ready for work and was abducted as she stepped out the door to her car.

I don't buy that at all.

The boyfriend said that she always called him or text messaged him every morning, but she didn't that morning for the first time. He said that was puzzling.

He said he called then and only got her voice mail. He said that was unusual. It's one thing to not call him, running late, etc., but to also not be there to answer his call when she normally was is too much. She wasn't there that morning putting on makeup.

There was also the implied implication that the attacker knew something of her and was waiting for her to come out the door, and maybe he was hidden in the back seat, who knows, but she had been gone a few days on vacation and just returned the night before.

The thought of someone thinking they are going to attack a woman that he had seen around by waiting till she goes to work is pretty remote. What, accost her in the parking lot as people are going to work, or render her unconscious from the back seat as starts the car up, then clamber around, and drive the car away?

Possible, but add to that no calling or answering the phone and it is clearly a scenario stretched to fit what seems to be the facts.

None of it makes any sense to me. There would have to be a very strong indication that she was up and about in her apartment that morning, a stronger indication than her makeup was out, which as I understand it was always out, and even then one would have to decipher why she was not communicating with her boyfriend after coming back from a trip with him.

The answer is that she wasn't up and about that morning getting ready for work, that is clear to me. But there was no struggle, no break in, her door was locked.

I suspect a key was made for her apartment door. I'd have to think of something else if that wasn't possible, but that makes far more sense to me. They said something about some recent work done on her apartment.

From WFTV:
Channel 9 has also learned one of [her brother's] friends left a cell phone at Jennifer’s condo and asked her to overnight it. The Monday night or Tuesday morning she disappeared, she may have left her condo looking for a roadside drop box to mail that cell phone. The package is missing and never made it to its destination.

From Nancy's interview with the boyfriend, I believe he said they talked about 10 pm the night before to say goodnight, and the indication was that she was going to sleep for the night.

Based on that it seems unlikely she went out for a drive to find an overnight box instead.

Going out early to drop that package (assuming she had an appropriate package at home to put the cell phone in, I guess) is something I can buy.

It explains breaking the routine of calling her boyfriend each morning, and sort of explains not being there to answer his call (assuming he called a home phone or she had her cell off, which are not real hard assumptions to make, but possible).

So the implication here is an abduction early in the morning as she's out and about to go mail this package. I still find that hard to believe.

Possibly she wanted to get the package out and went out after her 10 pm call with her boyfriend. Late at night, she's abducted, and no phone to call or answer in the morning.

Listening to Nancy Grace covering Jennifer's disappearance with Jennifer's family, she said that she and the family talked and there was every indication that Jennifer was abducted going to work, the new information being that the shower was still wet.

Adding in the other information that she was intent on dropping a packaged cell phone into an overnight box for pickup, one of those boxes like FedEx that are located like mailboxes (and sometimes next to one), and her not calling her boyfriend or answering his call, it's possible she left real early and maybe even was going to call as usual but was kidnapped before she had a chance to get back and make it. Possible anyway. Her purse and cell phone, and the packaged cell phone she was to send, are all gone with her as I understand it.

Still, several things don't add up and the mother is saying it's intuition that makes her think Jennifer headed out to work. She says there was a couple of work outfits on the bed. Hello, that's like she wasn't there to get ready for work, like they were there for her to get dressed for work. Makes no sense to me at all.

Also, very sloppy questioning concerning the no phone call to her boyfriend. They said that would pinpoint the time she was abducted, pretty much implying that she called from her car while driving to work. I think Nancy even mentioned something like that.

However, the phone call was not made so much earlier that the boyfriend called her instead, and got no answer. The phone call clearly took place each morning earlier on, not when she was driving to work. So all that is up in the air and they need to follow up on details like that if they're going to try to establish a timeline on the air.

It's remotely possible that after getting up and showering she drove out in casual clothes to look for a box to drop the package off and upon returning would have called her boyfriend as usual, dressed for work, etc. The parents said she normally went to work between 7:30 and 8:15.

Going out early would be very quiet and somewhat dark, and I can see that explanation, especially if she turned around in an unfamiliar place or something looking for an overnight box and got carjacked or something. In fact, it's just the far end of the time frame I suggested of her going out sometime after the 10am call to her boyfriend to drop off the package in an overnight box.

I have to agree that if she had an overnight package to send that cell phone back to her brother's friend (who had left it there over the weekend), I would think she knew where to drop it off.

Even if she knew where the box was, I don't see that much problem with thinking she went out early to drop the package in a box. Maybe something about traffic or she was taking it to the Fedex distribution center instead of a box.

Come to think of it, that answers my doubt about her having a package to send it in. She probably didn't, and was going to a FedEx or UPS distribution center to pack the cell phone up and send it.

There are UPS Stores, but they usually open at normal business hours after she'd be at work.

I would concentrate on the nearest overnight distribution centers for starters and see where they are in relation to her work location, which I haven't seen mentioned so far.

Goodness knows I have next to no hope for her well being. I am sorry to have to say that, but these guys that do this are murderers, many of which should be monitored and tracked as a menace to society and women everywhere.

rd

 

[leftcoast]

Enrique, Rd, Taxi, Belle good posts.

It is creepy to think that someone tried to enter JK's apartment just weeks earlier.

thanks for that update Belle

RD" I agree with you. Based on what I have heard from the parents, why is everyone convinced JK was not abducted in her apartment?

One has to wonder if there is more video from Mosaic, or other sites?

WE have discussed at length here, the clothes left on JK's bed. Sounds strange to me, but, some woman say they also do the same.

My thoughts have always been that someone had a key, or attacked Jk in the condo. Maybe while she was asleep, or even showering.

If you put the dog clues, the timing, etc, to me, it is the most logical.

Sitting in a car, waiting for someone to exit a condo, usually is seen by others, and is very suspicious. Unless, of course, it is an employee, security, deliveryman, etc.

There is also the possibility that JK was just a random target that morning, and was caught off guard at a Fedex or UPs store. However, it would be rather unusual and would not explain why the dog led back to Jk's condo.

My take is as follows:

I think LE has a handful of suspects, and is watching a few people.

However, you need to place that person in the car, via prints, dna, etc, and maybe LE just doesn't have that crucial physical evidence.

KUdo's to the media, HOTG, and the Kesse's for keeping the secrets about the tapes.

left

ps Where are the videos from the other camera's at HOTG? ARe there only two camera's?

 

[rd_jfc]

I agree with you about being abducted going to a FedEx distribution center is also remote, leftcoast. I was focused more on how her routine might have changed in getting that overnight package off.

More to your point, the abductor was apparently local and parked the car within walking distance down the road and walked back. If she was carjacked while trying to deliver a package early that morning, the perp may have driven back to her condo based on the drivers license address to rob it, but found people there, and then driven toward his location and parked the car maybe halfway there.

Otherwise, he was just local to her condo and parked it out of the way and walked back.

One reason why I don't think Jennifer was abducted in her condo is that I think the perp would have attacked her in her condo, especially if he had a key and she was in bed at night, not forcibly taken her somewhere.

One thing that would change my mind is if there were package delvery services at work or in the building or nearby, and indications are that she would have likely sent the package during a break from work.

Otherwise, I feel she was out of her condo early that morning related to getting that package off, and her murderer lived within walking distance.

rd

 

[leftcoast]

You bring up a good point

I actually know people who have had their cars stolen, and the perp. used their identification, car registration, and went to their homes and robbed their houses.

It is possible that was part of the motive, and with all the activity, the perp. just took off.

I hate to go here, but it is necessary, given one of your questions.

We all agree what the most likely motive is in this case.

In the 70's, perp.'s would simply leave victims behind. However, with DNA comes physical evidence that is indisputable in court.

So, does anyone think the improvements in forensics, such as DNA, has led to more people who are "missing", who may have been found not alive in the 60's and 70"s?

In other words, do you think it is possible the dirtbag rapists, murderers, etc. are now hiding victims to prevent police from getting DNA samples left behind?

that is what I was gettin at.

left

 

[leftcoast]

Greta's show from Thursday, and the video tape,and KEsse interview are now on Fox website, http://www.foxnews.com/. Just hit the Greta link.

For the record, Kimberly Guilfoyle reports Orlando PD has been getting new leads related to this case.

Let's keep our fingers crossed, I think this dirtbag is very close to being caught, IMO

left

 

[rd_jfc]

It doesn't appear to me from what I've seen in the news the last six years that most many missing women appear to be the victim of strangers, but Jennifer is certainly one of them.

The days of being able to say that the people who know their victims are the ones who go to a great deal of effort to hide them may be coming to an end. Or maybe it's just not that much effort anymore to make a woman disappear.

A lot of men have certainly been successful at it these last few years.

rd

 

[ShowerSinger]

First off, let me say that I am happy to see this case getting renewed attention.

I was just thinking....
If it was at night...
Perhaps she ordered some sort of food delivery---steak out, chinese,or pizza and the delivery person noticed she lived alone, was beautiful, and took advantage of the situation. Afterall, she had been on vacation, and probably didn't have groceries, too tired to cook? It was late, last delivery for the night?
If it was in the morning...
Perhaps someone had noticed her living alone. Someone who would be there often, like the paper delivery guy. Had to take her car, because his was full of papers and such. Maybe he did abduct her on her way to her car. A paper guy wouldn't be thought of as out of place, or much noticed. Probably noticed her leave in the mornings all dressed up, and gorgeous.
Then I thought hey, what if she called for pickup of a parcel, they do come to your house to get it. Same thing, perp's vehicle was full, use hers. Double back to pick up his.

Any thoughts?

 

[Myserty64]

The POI's hat!

Gee there are lots of good posts and plenty of good thoughts here. It is so good so see the case 'alive' again. Thanks to everyone for taking the trouble.

Can I ask you to check out the link below. I'm not casting any aspersions here but note the three pictures on the left hand side of the page and in particular the middle one. Look at the hat the guy is wearing and then look at the original POI pictures taken by the pool gate.

Does the hat look familiar?

http://www.mvtransit.com/AboutMV.html

Please post your thoughts.

BTW left, congratulations on all the work on DB Cooper. I have read the entire thread along with the story on that crime. I was going to post there but I felt like a 'Johnny come lately' so I refrained. lol

 

[Myserty64]

I have always been a believer in a morning time abduction but now I am beginning to wonder.
The fact that nobody saw anything at all in broad daylight (as far as we know) seems to me to be an indicator that this crime happened under the cover of darkness.

This case is so frustrating because it is next to impossible to find a starting point. It must be the same for the police.

 

[drumstick]

If you put on a baseball hat backwards and take a black & white picture,
you'll discover that it looks identical to the picture of the POI.

IMO~

 

[leftcoast]

The POI's hat!

Gee there are lots of good posts and plenty of good thoughts here. It is so good so see the case 'alive' again. Thanks to everyone for taking the trouble.

Can I ask you to check out the link below. I'm not casting any aspersions here but note the three pictures on the left hand side of the page and in particular the middle one. Look at the hat the guy is wearing and then look at the original POI pictures taken by the pool gate.

Does the hat look familiar?

http://www.mvtransit.com/AboutMV.html

Please post your thoughts.

BTW left, congratulations on all the work on DB Cooper. I have read the entire thread along with the story on that crime. I was going to post there but I felt like a 'Johnny come lately' so I refrained. lol

Thanks Mystery: Appreciate the praise. That Cooper investigation was some of the worse, close-minded, lazy, investigating I've ever seen in my life. Please post, would love to hear both praise and any doubts.

Luckily, it seems Orlando PD is much more open minded, and hence, this case IMO is going to be solved, and soon. thanks again.


as for that hat. I agree the "suspect" is definitely wearing some type of hat. IT could be a derby type of hat, baseball hat, etc. Thanks for showing that picture. A definite possibility.

left

 

[leftcoast]

If you put on a baseball hat backwards and take a black & white picture,
you'll discover that it looks identical to the picture of the POI.

IMO~

Agree it could be a baseball hat, beret, etc.

That is why I have always said that it would have been wise (if not done) to have re-enactments with ORlando PD officers posing as the POI, dressed in different clothes, different hats, and different height, weight, male, female, and have them walk the entire route the "suspect" took and photograph it.

then, compare the photo's to the POI, and one would get a better idea if the "suspect" was wearing a baseball hat, beret, helmet(unlikely), etc.

I sure hope they did this. Especially to show how different colors would show up on that last photo in front of the gate.

Your point about the hat backwards is a good one. It also is something that points toward the younger crowd, and not necessarily toward somone who is trying to disguise themself. In my mind, this guy had zero clue he was on photograph, and the clothes he is wearing are one's he wears on a regular basis. IMO

left

 

[leftcoast]

First off, let me say that I am happy to see this case getting renewed attention.

I was just thinking....
If it was at night...
Perhaps she ordered some sort of food delivery---steak out, chinese,or pizza and the delivery person noticed she lived alone, was beautiful, and took advantage of the situation. Afterall, she had been on vacation, and probably didn't have groceries, too tired to cook? It was late, last delivery for the night?
If it was in the morning...
Perhaps someone had noticed her living alone. Someone who would be there often, like the paper delivery guy. Had to take her car, because his was full of papers and such. Maybe he did abduct her on her way to her car. A paper guy wouldn't be thought of as out of place, or much noticed. Probably noticed her leave in the mornings all dressed up, and gorgeous.
Then I thought hey, what if she called for pickup of a parcel, they do come to your house to get it. Same thing, perp's vehicle was full, use hers. Double back to pick up his.

Any thoughts?

All EXCELLENT points. Those newspaper delivery guys, garbage men, etc. come early in the a.m., they know every car in the lot. Same with a delivery guy, like a pizza guy, etc.

That is why processing that condo, going through JK's garbage, her last phone calls, her land line (did she order or buzz someone in (if her gate works that way)).

great points. I'm convinced this guy is someone like that. Someone JK would recognize, maybe from the complex.

IT would also explain why none of JK's family, friends, etc. recognize that photo.

good work

left

When this case is solved, and it will be soon, everyone will say, Oh, it makes a lot of sense. I seriously doubt this is some tourist from Ohio who just happened to wonder upon Mosaic and HotG.

 

[crypto6]

re:.... the bloodhounds.....I do think the dog was accurate but isn't it possible they picked up JK's scent and not the suspect's? and that's why the dog went back to the condo? i dunno, how they would be able to know for sure what the dog was picking up. it is interesting that the dog went back to JK's place. Does anybody know for sure where the dog stopped? the stairs? her front door? a neighbor's door? and wasn't there an odd route the dog took on the way back?

last night when i was laying in bed i thought about how creepy it would be if I heard somebody try using a key to open my door. think about that, not just a break-in but somebody thinking they have a way to get in your home the same way you do. I can't remember where this was first reported that JK heard someone trying to get in at night. Anyone remember? Is this true?

RE The dog Bo:

We got into a dog discussion last year on this thread and the reading brought out fascinating facts about bloodhounds. (You should be able to dig it up with my name) Unless JK was near the line walked by the dog, he's got someone elses scent. The kicker: a really good bloodhound can follow scents left from people in cars. So your question is highly relevant.

RE Where did Bo stop at JK’s?

I have seen it described both at the bottom of the stairs and at the door. I’ll have to look back for the OPD spokesman’s exact words, but IIRC, the bottom of the stairs was mentioned, but the door was never ruled out either.