GUILTY FL - Lakeland girl, 14, charged with killing newborn son, 19 Sept 2012

[jjenny]

The father of the baby committed a second degree felony, regardless of how old he is.

https://www.santarosa.k12.fl.us/files/ktlaw.pdf

Page 15 of the .pdf file. This also has the breakdown for 16-17 yos.

If two 14 year old are having sex, then they are both committing this "second degree felony."
I guess both could be locked up. But I haven't heard about it actually happening.

 

[IWannaKnow]

BBM

I guess, unless some new info about her home life or mental health status comes out (I truly hope there is something to, not excuse, but explain, this) I tend to agree. Some things are beyond the pale. Alyssa Bustamante was only a year older than her, and she got life.
JMO

Alyssa Bustamante (15) intentionally lured 9 year old Elizabeth Olten into a field to kill her just to see what it felt like.
From her diary the night Elizabeth was murdered:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...ing-9-year-old-enjoyable-then-went-to-church/

"I just f------ killed someone. I strangled them and slit their throat and stabbed them now they're dead. I don't know how to feel atm. It was ahmazing. As soon as you get over the "ohmygawd I can't do this" feeling, it's pretty enjoyable. I'm kinda nervous and shaky though right now. Kay, I gotta go to church now...lol."

and

At one point Bustamante had written that she intended to burn down a house and kill all the occupants, but she never followed through with that.

These acts are equal to you?

 

[Spurser]

I imagine she did alot of online "research" on how to handle her situation. There is some pretty sick stuff out there. Even still, she might of taken it as good, sound advice. Most teenagers know right from wrong. However, most do not have the best reasoning skills.

Part of me wants to strangle this 14 year old girl. The other part wants to grab her and hold her in my arms. All parts of me ache for the baby.

 

[MsFacetious]

If two 14 year old are having sex, then they are both committing this "second degree felony."
I guess both could be locked up. But I haven't heard about it actually happening.

A 12 year old boy and 13 year old girl were charged in Utah.
They were charged as soon as the baby was born to DNA test.
That baby was 3 years old before they were able to get the case dismissed.



The (13 year old) Ogden, Utah, girl was put in this odd position because she was found guilty of violating a state law that prohibits sex with someone under age 14.

She also was the victim in the case against her (12 year old) boyfriend, who was found guilty of the same violation by engaging in sexual activity with her.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4783650


Richards pointed out that Utah law says minors under age 14 do not have the ability to consent to sexual activity.

"It's a paradox," he said. "How can they be old enough to commit an offense if they're not old enough to consent to it?"

http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3358959


3 years after they were charged:

The Utah Supreme Court on Tuesday threw out a sex-abuse finding against a then-13-year-old Ogden girl who became pregnant by her 12-year-old boyfriend, ruling unanimously that treating her as both a victim and a perpetrator for the same act had created an "absurd result."

http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=6400542&itype=NGPSID

 

[jjenny]

My point is, the law is gender neutral. So if two teens under certain age are having sex, both of them are engaging in illegal behavior (and not just the male). So prosecutors normally leave cases like this alone. For the same exact reason as listed above-each of the teens in that case is both a perp and a victim.

 

[lisalei321]

My point is, the law is gender neutral. So if two teens under certain age are having sex, both of them are engaging in illegal behavior (and not just the male). So prosecutors normally leave cases like this alone. For the same exact reason as listed above-each of the teens in that case is both a perp and a victim.

JJenny, I do agree with what you've said here, my concern is that she became pregnant by someone older than she, and that she is a victim as well.

I have faith that Sheriff Judd will get to the bottom of it.

 

[Cracka*Jaxx]

BBM1: This isn't about "two wrongs making a right". It's about keeping a sociopath off the streets. ( you know, PROTECTING THE PUBLIC?) If she is released at 21 y/o, with a sealed juvie record, would you let her babysit your kids?

How many people come from $hi+y backgrounds turn out to be child killers? (hint: very few of 'em)

Although we don't know all the details, I am sure there is at least one victim- the baby. And that baby's 'mother' put her own hands around that tiny neck and squeezed the life out of her. Only someone who is evil or a psychopath could bring themselves to do something so horrific.

I'm tired of all the excuses some people come up with. Since murder came so easily to this teenager, she's a menace to society and needs to be punished severely.:maddening:

 

[Bree0372]

Originally Posted by SapphireSteel

Firstly, she was raped, she was 14 which is below the age of consent. Whoever raped her had access to her. My 14 year old was never left alone with anyone long enough to even be kissed, so that's neglect right there by my standards. That's YOUR 14 year old, which unfortunately, isn't the norm anymore.

(snipped)

God only knows if she could access a free abortion or even counseling, but I doubt it.

I will almost guarantee she has come from an abusive background herself which is probably why she felt she could trust nobody. She could well have been unbalanced at the time and thinking she was doing her baby a favour. It seems unfathomable but it happens.

(snipped)

First, we have no way of knowing (at this time) if she was raped or not. The father of the child very well could be someone of her age. Then they are both in the wrong. Too many kids are experimenting in things that are age inappropriate. I'm sure others will disagree, but 14 years old is much too young to be sharing herself sexually.

Abortion?? I'll spare you my feelings on abortion as birth control, but there are far more options than abortion. I'd much rather know that I gave my child a chance at life (adoption) than murdering him. Having worked at an adoption agency, and being an adoptive mom, I have seen so many young girls make this decision.

How can you guarantee you should most likely came from an abusive background? Because she chose this as the only out? I came from an abusive background and murdering my baby would be the furtherest thing from my mind - even at 14. We'll have to agree to disagree on how anyone could ever see this as doing the baby a favor? My son's mother placed him for adoption to give him a better life - one she knew she couldn't provide him.

This 14 year old child has been failed on so many different levels yet the general public is screaming for vengeance and suggesting she should be killed in horrifying ways. Why isn't her mother being held accountable? Is she not responsible for a 14 year old?

2) Two separate pregnancy tests were given to her, in private, and both came out "no response" which the mother took to mean "not pregnant". Every test I looked at says something, yes/no, pregnant/not pregnant, two lines or only one line....not simply blank.
3) She had 4-5 vaginal lesions when her mother took her to the doctor after she told her mother she had a miscarriage and flushed it down the toilet. How could any medical professional or a woman who had given birth believe that a child small enough to flush down the toilet would cause 4-5 vaginal lesions?
4) Comments I've read have said a sister got pregnant and was kicked out of the home. CG stated the reason she did this was because she didn't want her relationship with her mother and family to change. Doesn't sound to me like there would have been much support there if she had come clean to her mother.
5) A 5'3" 100# 14 year old girl delivers a 9.5 lb baby all alone, with no assistance. That would be a terrifying and extremely painful experience for a grown woman. How could that possibly go down in a single wide trailer and the mother, who was there at the time, not hear anything??? She was supposed to be sick that day. Wouldn't you check on your child if she had been in the bathroom for two hours?
6) She didn't simply throw the baby away. She washed it and kept it in her room. It wasn't just tossed into the trash as you frequently read about.
(snipped)
yet this 14 year old was not splashed all over the web with her mug shot, full name, address and date of birth displayed for all the world to see.
(snipped)

What she did was horrifying and inexcusable but this child made a mistake and then compounded it with interest. Is ruining the rest of her life going to bring back that baby boy? Is this how you would want your child to be treated if she did the same thing? She isn't the first and will not be the last...

(snipped link)

I'm one that feels she should be tried as an adult; however, I do not believe I could support a murder 1 charge (LWOP or Death). Her mother certainly bares some responsibility, IMHO. She is responsible for her daughter, but who knows where this girl had sex. It could have been at school, in the bathroom, under the bleachers...you never know. So, until I know more, I will reserve judgment on the mom's possible 'neglectful' behavior. The mom trusted her daughter. My mom would have trusted me at 14 as well.

I do agree with you on the medical professional though. There's no way a young girl that had damage just had a small enough baby that it would have flushed down the toilet. They had to have some concerns and if they didn't, I'd question why. She could have had a towel in her mouth (as a gag) to mute the sounds. I can't imagine giving birth and even considering using scissors to pry it out (that makes me sick to think about). uke:

At the end of the day: Whether she washed him and put him in a box or threw him out...she still killed him. That's the bottom line. Not only was he injured from the scissors, she checked to see if he was still breathing AND THEN CHOKED THE LIFE OUT OF A NEWBORN HELPLESS BABY BOY.

Sadly, your last line is correct. Very unfortunate!

BBM1: You have no idea how she got pregnant. It may have been a boyfriend of the same age. (I doubt it, but until details come out, we don't know.)

BBM2: This isn't about "two wrongs making a right". It's about keeping a sociopath off the streets. ( you know, PROTECTING THE PUBLIC?) If she is released at 21 y/o, with a sealed juvie record, would you let her babysit your kids?

How many people come from $hi+y backgrounds turn out to be child killers? (hint: very few of 'em)

Anxiously awaiting your response.

BBM: A GREAT QUESTION! (Not yelling, CAPS are just for emphasis.)

The father of the baby committed a second degree felony, regardless of how old he is.

https://www.santarosa.k12.fl.us/files/ktlaw.pdf

Page 15 of the .pdf file. This also has the breakdown for 16-17 yos.

As did she, if he is her age.

 

[PHB]

BBM


Alyssa Bustamante (15) intentionally lured 9 year old Elizabeth Olten into a field to kill her just to see what it felt like.
From her diary the night Elizabeth was murdered:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...ing-9-year-old-enjoyable-then-went-to-church/


and



These acts are equal to you?

The results are certaintly equal.
As I stated previously, until and unless some mitigating factors come out (and I pray that there are), this girl killed an innocent person. This wasn't a shoot-out with a cop, or a shopkeeper during a stick-up, it was an infant. Premeditated or on impulse, she has demonstrated she is dangerous.
JMO

 

[dizzychick]

I wish I had not seen this story, I dunno how much more I can take...

Are crimes like this more common now or is it just the net and instant news that makes it seem that way?

 

[Flutterby80]

I wish I had not seen this story, I dunno how much more I can take...

Are crimes like this more common now or is it just the net and instant news that makes it seem that way?

I really don't think it's more common. I think people are less able to hide their skeletons than in the past.

My family has some really horrible history a few generations back...stuff you might read about in the papers now, but was hidden and whispered about by neighbors back then.

 

[IWannaKnow]

I'm one that feels she should be tried as an adult; however, I do not believe I could support a murder 1 charge (LWOP or Death). Her mother certainly bares some responsibility, IMHO. She is responsible for her daughter, but who knows where this girl had sex. It could have been at school, in the bathroom, under the bleachers...you never know. So, until I know more, I will reserve judgment on the mom's possible 'neglectful' behavior. The mom trusted her daughter. My mom would have trusted me at 14 as well.

I do agree with you on the medical professional though. There's no way a young girl that had damage just had a small enough baby that it would have flushed down the toilet. They had to have some concerns and if they didn't, I'd question why. She could have had a towel in her mouth (as a gag) to mute the sounds. I can't imagine giving birth and even considering using scissors to pry it out (that makes me sick to think about). uke:

At the end of the day: Whether she washed him and put him in a box or threw him out...she still killed him. That's the bottom line. Not only was he injured from the scissors, she checked to see if he was still breathing AND THEN CHOKED THE LIFE OUT OF A NEWBORN HELPLESS BABY BOY.

Sadly, your last line is correct. Very unfortunate!

I'm very glad to hear you feel CG's mother is at least partly responsible, but we disagree on why. All parents should trust their 14 year olds, how else are they going to grow into responsible adults? Teen pregnancy happens. I feel the mother's neglect comes not from letting her daughter become pregnant but from hiding her head in the sand about it. Two of her sisters told her over and over CG was pregnant, she allowed her to take two pregnancy tests by herself and accepted that "no result" was the same thing as "not pregnant" (it is stated in the affidavit) on both tests and never took her to the doctor despite all the evidence that CG was pregnant. But most of all CG had been home sick for two days already and on the fateful day spent TWO HOURS in the bathroom with the water running.....Mom was home, there with her and never checked on her???? What if she had actually been sick and died from that in the bathroom - would Mom be negligent then? If Mom had checked on her and seen what was happening the result would be entirely different.

IMVHO IF Mom had been more aware/diligent/concerned/not in denial - the baby would still be here!

Teens lie. It is the parents JOB to see through those lies and guide the child safely through those decisions and actions.

 

[IWannaKnow]

The results are certaintly equal.
As I stated previously, until and unless some mitigating factors come out (and I pray that there are), this girl killed an innocent person. This wasn't a shoot-out with a cop, or a shopkeeper during a stick-up, it was an infant. Premeditated or on impulse, she has demonstrated she is dangerous.
JMO

There are, by definition, different levels of premeditation. Alyssa Bustamante is a very different example than CG. It may not matter to you, but it does matter in a court of law (thankfully).

 

[jjenny]

There are, by definition, different levels of premeditation. Alyssa Bustamante is a very different example than CG. It may not matter to you, but it does matter in a court of law (thankfully).

Never heard of different levels of premeditation "by definition." What are those?

 

[IWannaKnow]

Never heard of different levels of premeditation "by definition." What are those?

Pardon me for not stating it properly. I am a humble housewife and not an attorney-at-law:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_(United_States_law)

BBM

States have adopted several different schemes for classifying murders by degree. The most common separates murder into two degrees, and treats voluntary and involuntary manslaughter as separate crimes that do not constitute murder.

First degree murder is any murder that is willful and premeditated. Felony murder is typically first degree.[5][6]

Second degree murder is a murder that is not premeditated or planned in advance.[7]

Voluntary manslaughter sometimes called a "Heat of Passion" murder, is any intentional killing that involved no prior intent to kill, and which was committed under such circumstances that would "cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed." Both this and second degree murder are committed on the spot, but the two differ in the magnitude of the circumstances surrounding the crime. For example, a bar fight that results in death would ordinarily constitute second degree murder. If that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, however, it may be mitigated to voluntary manslaughter.[8]

Involuntary manslaughter stems from a lack of intention to cause death but involving an intentional, or negligent, act leading to death. A drunk driving-related death is typically involuntary manslaughter. Note that the "unintentional" element here refers to the lack of intent to bring about the death. All three crimes above feature an intent to kill, whereas involuntary manslaughter is "unintentional," because the killer did not intend for a death to result from his intentional actions. If there is a presence of intention it relates only to the intent to cause a violent act which brings about the death, but not an intention to bring about the death itself. [9]

My point was that Alyssa Bustamante was convicted of first degree murder. I do not feel that CG deliberately premeditated this murder in the way the OP was inferring. Death was the ultimate result but that result can come about in many different ways. The last time I checked those things still had weight in a court of law.

 

[Reader]

IWannaKnow, I certainly agree with you about the mother's responsibility to know what was going on with her daughter and to provide supervision, guidance and support to her in this situation.

Just by going along with the pregnancy tests, she acknowledged that C was sexually active and could be pregnant, so not to follow thru with the evidence before her eyes of the weight gain, observations of her sisters and her husband, etc. was neglectful at the least, if not a contribution to the crime. I hope she is charged with whatever they can use.

When they determine who the father of the baby is, I'm sure if he was an adult or committed a crime against C he will be charged also if appropriate, but he did not kill the baby. He may not have known about the pregnancy himself.

The main reason that I feel C should be charged as an adult and that the crime was premeditated, is what she told the detectives (paraphrasing):
she KNEW there were other alternatives she would take (keeping the baby, adoption, etc.), however, she chose to 'terminate' the baby's life as she did not want to change her relationship with the parents. So, to me, her actions meet the qualifications of first degree murder:

1/she considered other alternatives but rejected them because she did not want to change relationship with parents (premeditation)

2/instead she chose to terminate the child's life (wilful)

3/although she knew the baby was alive and breathing, in spite of stabbing him 32 times, she chose to strangle him to make sure he died and checked to be sure he was dead (deliberate murder)

4/she lied to her mother and hospital personnel about having a miscarriage, and she hid his body which indicates she knew she had committed a crime and was covering it up

IMO at this time with what we know....I'm very open to change to a lesser charge if more info comes out about extenuating circumstances but they would have to be very good reasons.....

 

[Bree0372]

I'm very glad to hear you feel CG's mother is at least partly responsible, but we disagree on why. All parents should trust their 14 year olds, how else are they going to grow into responsible adults? Teen pregnancy happens. I feel the mother's neglect comes not from letting her daughter become pregnant but from hiding her head in the sand about it. Two of her sisters told her over and over CG was pregnant, she allowed her to take two pregnancy tests by herself and accepted that "no result" was the same thing as "not pregnant" (it is stated in the affidavit) on both tests and never took her to the doctor despite all the evidence that CG was pregnant. But most of all CG had been home sick for two days already and on the fateful day spent TWO HOURS in the bathroom with the water running.....Mom was home, there with her and never checked on her???? What if she had actually been sick and died from that in the bathroom - would Mom be negligent then? If Mom had checked on her and seen what was happening the result would be entirely different.

IMVHO IF Mom had been more aware/diligent/concerned/not in denial - the baby would still be here!

Teens lie. It is the parents JOB to see through those lies and guide the child safely through those decisions and actions.

BBM: We don't disagree, I just didn't go into further detail. You're spot on! The mom has to accept some responsibility in this given the fact that the 14 year old minor is her daughter. With that said, I feel a 14 year old is able to make the necessary judgment call to NOT CHOKE THE LIFE out of her NEWBORN BABY!

Had the mom been more concerned, the child MAY (not necessarily would) still be here.

Pardon me for not stating it properly. I am a humble housewife and not an attorney-at-law:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_(United_States_law)

BBM



My point was that Alyssa Bustamante was convicted of first degree murder. I do not feel that CG deliberately premeditated this murder in the way the OP was inferring. Death was the ultimate result but that result can come about in many different ways. The last time I checked those things still had weight in a court of law.

Premeditation is generally defined as taking place mere seconds before the murder. In the seconds that this girl took to check to see if the baby still had a pulse, she knew what the outcome would be. She meant to kill him, no ifs ands or buts about it. She admitted that much. She admitted that she was aware of other options. I have no sympathy for her other than her lousy upbringing. With that said, many people have lousy upbringings and would never think of killing a baby.

IWannaKnow, I certainly agree with you about the mother's responsibility to know what was going on with her daughter and to provide supervision, guidance and support to her in this situation.

Just by going along with the pregnancy tests, she acknowledged that C was sexually active and could be pregnant, so not to follow thru with the evidence before her eyes of the weight gain, observations of her sisters and her husband, etc. was neglectful at the least, if not a contribution to the crime. I hope she is charged with whatever they can use.

When they determine who the father of the baby is, I'm sure if he was an adult or committed a crime against C he will be charged also if appropriate, but he did not kill the baby. He may have not have known about the pregnancy himself.

The main reason that I feel C should be charged as an adult and that the crime was premeditated, is what she told the detectives (paraphrasing):
she KNEW there were other alternatives she would take (keeping the baby, adoption, etc.), however, she chose to 'terminate' the baby's life as she did not want to change her relationship with the parents. So, to me, her actions meet the qualifications of first degree murder:

1/she considered other alternatives but rejected them because she did not want to change relationship with parents (premeditation)

2/instead she chose to terminate the child's life (wilful)

3/although she knew the baby was alive and breathing, in spite of stabbing him 32 times, she chose to strangle him to make sure he died and checked to be sure he was dead (deliberate murder)

4/she lied to her mother and hospital personnel about having a miscarriage, and she hid his body which indicates she knew she had committed a crime and was covering it up

IMO at this time with what we know....I'm very open to change to a lesser charge if more info comes out about extenuating circumstances but they would have to be very good reasons.....

I won't post anymore of my thoughts, because Reader read my mind. :waitasec: BBM - that's the part that I can't get past.

:goodpost:

 

[Shelby2]

Not sure how I feel about this.

I did not get the feeling she was using the scissors to stab the baby, but rather to get the baby out. I think she must have been in an absolute panic. There are too many variables with girls that age to say that just because she was 14 she was old enough to do the right thing. I know lots of 14 year old girls and some act like they are 11 while others are much more mature.

One thing I am confused about, if this was so premeditated, WHY did she leave the baby IN HER ROOM for 3 days?? Why would she not have gotten rid of the baby in those 3 days? What did she expect was going to happen??

The fact that an older sister may have been disowned for getting pregnant bothers me a great deal. She had to have been absolutely terrified giving birth, I really don't know what was in her head at that time or why she felt she had to strangle her baby, but the fact that she just left him in her room for 3 days tells
me that perhaps she did not think this through or plan it..

As far as Alyssa Bustamante, that girl dug two graves, lured a child into the woods, killed and buried her after planning it all. She is nothing like this girl we are discussing here. Otherwise she would have had to plan on getting pregnant just to kill her baby to "see what it felt like to kill someone".

From what I know of this case so far, I do not feel she should be tried as an adult.

 

[Shelby2]

<modsnip>

I'm very interested in finding out who the father is. I don't have the link for the quote but she told cops she was afraid the relationship with her family would change if she had the baby. It was mentioned her older sister was thrown out when she got pregnant. Was she afraid of being thrown out or outing the father of the baby?

As far as her punishment I have no doubt Sheriff Grady Judd will do his best to be sure she gets the correct punishment. He was Sheriff when Jessica Lunsford was murdered. He told the residents of Polk county he would do everything possible to get the child molesters and sex offenders off the street and he has done a very good job of doing just that. So if the father of that baby is an adult Judd will hunt that person down. We don't have all the facts yet. It could take make all the difference if the father is an adult and was telling her what to do and he would help her take care of the situation.

I think he may have been the Sheriff interviewed on Nancy Grace tonight if anyone saw it.

 

[Mama-cita]

Although we don't know all the details, I am sure there is at least one victim- the baby. And that baby's 'mother' put her own hands around that tiny neck and squeezed the life out of her. Only someone who is evil or a psychopath could bring themselves to do something so horrific.

I'm tired of all the excuses some people come up with. Since murder came so easily to this teenager, she's a menace to society and needs to be punished severely.:maddening:

Thanks was not enough. I saw the mugshot of this sicko and she needs to be locked up because she will offend again. Pure psychopath, no remorse on her face, only defiance.