GUILTY FL - Lakeland girl, 14, charged with killing newborn son, 19 Sept 2012

[claudicici]

I know what it feels like to be 14 and pregnant.
It feels like the end of the world.Like your parents will never look at you again,like noone will ever love you again,especially you will never love yourself again.
What the girl did is horrible.But I believe she tried to "think" the situation away and let it go on until it was too late.Again what followed is horrible.She will have to live with this.That in itself is extreme punishment.She will need a lot of therapy.She will need to learn to love herself because without a doubt she hates herself.She did not see that part of her as a baby she saw it as the part of herself she hates,the part of herself that was bad.IMO it's worse that she killed herself not the innocent baby that has not lived yet and was still attached to her.I don't understand how people can think she did this with a rational mindframe.Noone is going to think 'oh I'll just let this happen and then I'll use scissors and go through unimaginable pain and then I'll strangle the baby and hide it under my bed while my mother is next door." That's not psychopathy,that's desperation IMO

 

[jjenny]

Her pregnancy wasn't caused by a pair of scissors, and it wasn't caused all by herself either. It was caused by someone having sex with a 14, (or possibly 13 at the time), year old girl.

Who is he, and how old is he? That's what I want to know.

How old is he?
Appears to be another minor.

""Everything we have so far leads us to believe it was another child" who is the father of the baby, Judd said."
http://www.theledger.com/article/20121003/NEWS/121009773?p=2&tc=pg

 

[peeples]

thank you jjenny!!!!!

 

[alwaysonmymind]

I don't know any 14 year old that would stab a baby with scissors and strangle it to death. That's the red flag for me. In my nursing career I took care of 14 year old pregnant moms. The fact that this girl could do this is a huge red flag.

This 14 year old didn't have a nurse taking care of her. She went through this alone for whatever reason.

I've given birth without medication and can't put into words how painful it was to birth an almost 9# baby. I can't imagine a 14 yo girl in labor, alone in a bathroom thinkly clearly as this was happening.

 

[Mama-cita]

This 14 year old didn't have a nurse taking care of her. She went through this alone for whatever reason.

I've given birth without medication and can't put into words how painful it was to birth an almost 9# baby. I can't imagine a 14 yo girl in labor, alone in a bathroom thinkly clearly as this was happening.

Wow, just wow. Are you saying the pain of labor justifies her actions? If so that is just frightening. Many 14 year olds get pregnant. Very very very few stab with scissors and strangle their babies. There is something very wrong with anyone that could act so callously. People are willing to excuse her for being "frightened" and "ignorant" yet when the girl herself was interrogated she admitted she knew she had options. I will NEVER agree that there are any mitigating factors to what she did, nor will I lessen what she did based on age and "so called fear." Something is very wrong with this individual.

 

[Mama-cita]

How old is he?
Appears to be another minor.

""Everything we have so far leads us to believe it was another child" who is the father of the baby, Judd said."
http://www.theledger.com/article/20121003/NEWS/121009773?p=2&tc=pg

Guess that blows some of the excuses out of the water!

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Wow, just wow. Are you saying the pain of labor justifies her actions? If so that is just frightening. Many 14 year olds get pregnant. Very very very few stab with scissors and strangle their babies. There is something very wrong with anyone that could act so callously. People are willing to excuse her for being "frightened" and "ignorant" yet when the girl herself was interrogated she admitted she knew she had options. I will NEVER agree that there are any mitigating factors to what she did, nor will I lessen what she did based on age and "so called fear." Something is very wrong with this individual.

Where did I say her actions are justified?




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[Mama-cita]

Where did I say her actions are justified?




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I'm too lazy to requote the OP but I was referring to your statement that was along the lines of "I can't imagine a 14 year old girl thinking clearly as that happens" with regards to being in labor and pain. To me that is a statement that mitigates her actions. That is why I asked the question "Are you saying that the pain of labor excuses her actions?" What i meant was does it somehow LESSEN the horrific thing she did? I was asking a follow up question to clarify your POV.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

ETA- my reply is to your original response.

You're making a jump by assuming this translates into justification.

I'll again say- I can't believe her thoughts were rational or reasonable at the time this happened.

In other words- I don't see a psychopath or sociopath as you seem to.






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[Mama-cita]

You're making a jump by assuming this translates into justification.

I'll again say- I can't believe her thoughts were rational or reasonable at the time this happened.

In other words- I don't see a psychopath or sociopath as you seem to.






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I don't think, even in the absence of "rational and reasonable" thought that the horrific crime she committed can be mitigated or lessened in any way.
An 11 year old boy in PA shot and killed his 9 month pregnant stepmom in the back of the head as she slept. He had the foresight to use a pillow as a "silencer", discard the shotgun shell, then make up a story about a mysterious truck when questioned by police. This boy should absolutely be tried as an adult, but unfortunately he will not be. Someone who could disregard another human life so callously and recklessly obviously has major problems and psychology even tells us they can't be fixed. This is even why sociopathy, though present in only a small percentage of the population, pervades our prison system with something like 85% of inmates showing sociopathic traits. I will reiterate MY point. Many young girls, girls as young as 11 have babies. How often do you hear of them going to such steps to hide their pregnancies, then stab and strangle the newborn? She was pregnant for months. She admits she KNEW there were options. The option SHE chose was to bludgeon with scissors and strangle the baby. We hear about cases like this once in a blue moon. Why? Because only people with such a callous disregard for others (the basic definition of a sociopath) could do what this girl did.

 

[Shelby2]

Guess that blows some of the excuses out of the water!

I was wondering some posters talking about excuses, but I have not seen anyone here excusing what she did. I see some posters including myself showing some compassion for this girl, but that does not equal excusing her actions. And really any compassion I do feel for this girl does not lessen the compassion I have for an innocent newborn. It doesn't have to be so black and white. It's not the same as that 9 year old who committed a very calculated crime. This wasn't calculated. If it was, she would have cleaned up the blood all over the bathroom. She would have dumped his body so she would not be caught. She would have done anything to make sure she was not caught, but she didn't even seem to think about it. Something is wrong here for sure, but I am not sure that something is sociopathy.

 

[Mama-cita]

I was wondering some posters talking about excuses, but I have not seen anyone here excusing what she did. I see some posters including myself showing some compassion for this girl, but that does not equal excusing her actions. And really any compassion I do feel for this girl does not lessen the compassion I have for an innocent newborn. It doesn't have to be so black and white. It's not the same as that 9 year old who committed a very calculated crime. This wasn't calculated. If it was, she would have cleaned up the blood all over the bathroom. She would have dumped his body so she would not be caught. She would have done anything to make sure she was not caught, but she didn't even seem to think about it. Something is wrong here for sure, but I am not sure that something is sociopathy.

She did clean it up. She showered the baby off and cleaned up the blood. It's in the affidavit. She then hid the body. As she doesn't seem to be the brightest bulb in the box, she probably didn't plan on the odors of decomposition. Neither did Casey Anthony. My reference in the post you quoted was in regards to some posters stating that she may have done what she had done because she was "probably" a victim of rape or incest. The fact that by all accounts it appears she was having sex with another 14 year old blows the "rape" excuse out of the water. Although I'm sure the fact that the age of consent in Florida being 18 will still cause some posters to say she is "technically" a rape victim...yada yada yada, go ahead and arrest her and her boyfriend then because they raped each other. She did something so extremely atrocious and heinous. She had months to think about this, she admitted she knew their were other options. But he chose a disgusting, heinous, callous, unfathomable solution. I believe though, and hope that her mother should also be held criminally liable to the fullest extent the law allows. There is no way she did NOT know her daughter was pregnant. The girl is 5ft and 100lbs. If the girl denied pregnancy she should have suspected a massive intestinal tumor. Maybe a chubby girl can hide pregnancy, not a tiny one.

 

[Shelby2]

Interesting article on sociopaths, if anyone's interested.
http://www.decision-making-confidence.com/sociopath-symptoms.html

 

[alwaysonmymind]

There have been no excuses made for her in this thread so far, as far as I can see. If you see otherwise, please point me to them.


This 14 year old needs to be tried as a juvenile, and people need to stop acting like she's Ted Bundy. She didn't shoot someone in the back of the head as they slept, or whatever. She got pregnant, and we still don't know how, and became so desparate and frightened that she did something terrible.

Agreed.

I've looked for statements from her attorney and couldn't find any. Did she have an attorney present during the police questioning?

I just read that she bathed her baby before putting him in the shoebox. What a sad story. moo

 

[Shelby2]

She did clean it up. She showered the baby off and cleaned up the blood. It's in the affidavit. She then hid the body. As she doesn't seem to be the brightest bulb in the box, she probably didn't plan on the odors of decomposition. Neither did Casey Anthony. My reference in the post you quoted was in regards to some posters stating that she may have done what she had done because she was "probably" a victim of rape or incest. The fact that by all accounts it appears she was having sex with another 14 year old blows the "rape" excuse out of the water. Although I'm sure the fact that the age of consent in Florida being 18 will still cause some posters to say she is "technically" a rape victim...yada yada yada, go ahead and arrest her and her boyfriend then because they raped each other. She did something so extremely atrocious and heinous. She had months to think about this, she admitted she knew their were other options. But he chose a disgusting, heinous, callous, unfathomable solution. I believe though, and hope that her mother should also be held criminally liable to the fullest extent the law allows. There is no way she did NOT know her daughter was pregnant. The girl is 5ft and 100lbs. If the girl denied pregnancy she should have suspected a massive intestinal tumor. Maybe a chubby girl can hide pregnancy, not a tiny one.

Ok thanks. I could have sworn that she only cleaned herself and the baby up, because I thought her mother took her to the hospital because of all the blood in the bathroom.
ITA with you about this girls mother.

 

[Mama-cita]

Ok thanks. I could have sworn that she only cleaned herself and the baby up, because I thought her mother took her to the hospital because of all the blood in the bathroom.
ITA with you about this girls mother.

Another thing that is so strange is how badly the Doctors and Nurses in the emergency room dropped the ball. If they suspected a "brutal rape" of a minor why wouldn't they call police instead of suggest she talk to a social worker? Why didn't they investigate the vaginal lacerations? Additionally, someone who has recently given birth is going to have a uterus that is still the size of a heavily pregnant individual. If they had simply palpated her fundus (very basic standard of care in OB) they would have found it to be at or above the level of her umbilicus, which suggests a recent BIRTH not a miscarriage. I don't get how a competent health care practitioner could have missed what was really going on. Police should have been called immediately. Then the baby wouldn't have been left to rot in a box.

 

[Salem]

There is a lot of bickering going on in here and it needs to STOP. This is an emotionally charged issue. Everyone gets their opinion, as long as it is within TOS.

Stop trying to tell others how to think and feel. Post your opinions and reasons for your opinions and leave others alone. I'm going to start issuing TOs if you can't treat each other respectfully.

Salem

 

[Shelby2]

Another thing that is so strange is how badly the Doctors and Nurses in the emergency room dropped the ball. If they suspected a "brutal rape" of a minor why wouldn't they call police instead of suggest she talk to a social worker? Why didn't they investigate the vaginal lacerations? Additionally, someone who has recently given birth is going to have a uterus that is still the size of a heavily pregnant individual. If they had simply palpated her fundus (very basic standard of care in OB) they would have found it to be at or above the level of her umbilicus, which suggests a recent BIRTH not a miscarriage. I don't get how a competent health care practitioner could have missed what was really going on. Police should have been called immediately. Then the baby wouldn't have been left to rot in a box.

The police were called about a possible rape, but she would not talk to them.
I am surprised about the medical staff as well. She reported a miscarriage, the aunt during the 911 call said the girl was 5 months pregnant. So I would think that's what the girl told her mother, and the mother told the hospital.
They should have done a complete exam including palpating the abdomen to rule out an incomplete miscarriage, right? Also, at 72 hours postpartum her breasts would have been filled with milk after delivery of a full term baby. I am not sure if it would be the same for a 5 month old fetus. I lost twins at 4 &1/2 months and do not remember lactating like I did after I had a full term baby which was not breast fed. Wouldn't a routine exam pick that up? Would a blood test be given in this case to check hormone levels?
I am really shocked that nobody was suspicious. Not that it would have changed the horrible outcome, but it bothers me just the same.

 

[Shelby2]

OK, this is where I read about the blood in the bathroom.

Four days earlier, the girl’s mother told police she took her daughter to the emergency room after she “observed a lot of blood in and around the toilet area” immediately after her daughter used the bathroom, according to the affidavit. During the visit at the hospital, the girl admitted to her mother she had a miscarriage and flushed the fetus down the toilet without looking, police said the girl’s mother told them. Medical staff advised the mother that her 14-year-old daughter showed signs of a miscarriage, the affidavit states.


There is a transcript of the 911 call here, from the aunt on her way to the house.
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1210/02/ng.01.html

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it was a fetus. My niece apparently had a miscarriage the other day and...

911 OPERATOR: So are you wanting your niece checked out? I`m not...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No! There`s a fetus. There`s a 5-month-old -- 5-month -- when a lady is pregnant, they are 5 months -- the baby is here and we don`t know what to do with it.

 

[Mama-cita]

The police were called about a possible rape, but she would not talk to them.
I am surprised about the medical staff as well. She reported a miscarriage, the aunt during the 911 call said the girl was 5 months pregnant. So I would think that's what the girl told her mother, and the mother told the hospital.
They should have done a complete exam including palpating the abdomen to rule out an incomplete miscarriage, right? Also, at 72 hours postpartum her breasts would have been filled with milk after delivery of a full term baby. I am not sure if it would be the same for a 5 month old fetus. I lost twins at 4 &1/2 months and do not remember lactating like I did after I had a full term baby which was not breast fed. Wouldn't a routine exam pick that up? Would a blood test be given in this case to check hormone levels?
I am really shocked that nobody was suspicious. Not that it would have changed the horrible outcome, but it bothers me just the same.

First off, let me wish you prayers and offer :hugs: on the loss of your twins. You are absolutely right about the breasts. They should have examined if they thought there was a miscarriage, especially of a 5 month fetus as at that point a placenta would be well established. A retained placenta would cause a woman to bleed out and even can cause death. I simply can't imagine an emergency room would not be more thorough. You are right it would not have changed the outcome, but certainly adds to the overall strangeness of this case.