Found Deceased FL - Lane Graves, 2, Walt Disney World, 14 June 2016 #1

[1&2&3]

From the above picture, it would appear this size gator could only get his jaws around the child's ankle as described, and not his whole body. Gross to think of! Therefore, it was too big of a catch for the gator who soon released the child and was scared away by all the boats and divers in the water. Than heavens for a miracle! A child to bury is difficult enough, let alone the ulterior that it could have been.

RIP little Lane Graves.

 

[keyleigh]

And here's the gator my dog found out in the field beyond the pond. I think that one was around 4, maybe 5 feet.

A grown man should be able to wrangle a gator that size enough to remove the victim, right? Might lose a finger or something? How much would that gator weigh approximately? It could be picked up?

Well I know over the last few weeks I've learnt there is some huuuge gators in Florida. The golf course one still has me :scared:

Edited to add, not blaming dad, thinking that the gator must have been a lot bigger than that if poor dad didn't stand a chance.

 

[JerseyGirl]

here are some pictures someone posted in a blog of movie night at the GF:

http://www.couponingtodisney.com/ne...tion-try-an-outdoor-movie-at-a-disney-resort/

You can see adults and children close to the water at dusk.

 

[Sonya610]

A grown man should be able to wrangle a gator that size enough to remove the victim, right? Might lose a finger or something? How much would that gator weigh approximately? It could be picked up?

Edited to add, not blaming dad, thinking that the gator must have been a lot bigger than that if poor dad didn't stand a chance.

That gator probably weights 12 lbs or so. I would think wrestling with a gator in the water and trying to force it to release it's grip would be very very difficult, the gator would be very agile and hard to control, he is in his own element so he will fight to keep his dinner.

If pulled out onto land things change and IMO the smallish gator would probably freak out and decide to release the prey on its own, the gator would be afraid he's about to get eaten so saving his prize becomes the least of his concerns.

 

[JerseyGirl]

It was never confirmed, but the gator was somewhere between 4 feet and 7 feet long.

 

[Elphaba]

I think all too often that the fantasy atmosphere that is WDW gives people a false sense of safety, therefore they forget that the whole of the resort is built on a swamp. A swamp that has deadly predators in it, that WILL come out after you. Of all the finger-pointing going on, I do think this falls into Disney's lap. Bottom line: they are going to have to build barriers to stop human access to their lagoons. And it would probably be in their best interest to start a dedicated conservation team that solely focuses on dealing with the gator population, on a daily basis, in their waterways. (I'm not talking about them killing the gators... I'm talking about trapping and moving them off the property before they become a nuisance.)

Thankfully, (what little thanks there is to give in such a horrible situation), little Lane was recovered... my heart goes out to his family. They were doing what most families do in WDW: enjoying the safe little fantasy bubble that the Disney establishment projects. Those beaches are always dotted with families watching the Electrical Water Pageant on the lagoon and waiting to see the Wishes fireworks display over Magic Kingdom. It was a disaster waiting to happen, and Disney owns this tragic mistake. (and this is coming from someone that is pro-Disney... I vacation at WDW on a yearly basis.)

 

[gregjrichards]

I hope Disney see sense and fence this beach off. This little boy's parents and the public need assurances every measure possible is being taken to prevent a tragedy like this happening again. I think it would be reasonable for Disney to reimburse this family for the cost of their holiday and possibly help pay for his remains to be brought home and his funeral. This poor boy's family shouldn't have to worry about paying for sending his coffin home and his funeral. I don't know if they would have travel insurance but Disney should do the decent thing.

 

[keyleigh]

Thanks Sonya610. Alligators are such different creatures to crocs, I wanted to understand their nature. :cheers:

 

[1&2&3]

What is money when the life of a loved one has been taken away from an unwarned, unknown danger? They were following directions - NO SWIMMING - they were NOT swimming!

Swimming does not mean wading, splashing toes in the water, children playing in the sand and water.. If the water is dangerous, it needs to be marked as such and blocked off with no accessibility to it! Disney cannot feature it as an alluring attraction, a beach with water at their resort, and then expect people to stay out of it!

Disney's practices may have worked up until now, but like all the other changes Disney has gone through since opening day, it is time for a major revamp in the beach / lagoon access at the resorts. Probably the fastest way to make this happen, is if the family of this toddler, the Graves family, requires that to be a part of their settlement.

 

[gregjrichards]

I think all too often that the fantasy atmosphere that is WDW gives people a false sense of safety, therefore they forget that the whole of the resort is built on a swamp. A swamp that has deadly predators in it, that WILL come out after you. Of all the finger-pointing going on, I do think this falls into Disney's lap. Bottom line: they are going to have to build barriers to stop human access to their lagoons. And it would probably be in their best interest to start a dedicated conservation team that solely focuses on dealing with the gator population, on a daily basis, in their waterways. (I'm not talking about them killing the gators... I'm talking about trapping and moving them off the property before they become a nuisance.)

Thankfully, (what little thanks there is to give in such a horrible situation), little Lane was recovered... my heart goes out to his family. They were doing what most families do in WDW: enjoying the safe little fantasy bubble that the Disney establishment projects. Those beaches are always dotted with families watching the Electrical Water Pageant on the lagoon and waiting to see the Wishes fireworks display over Magic Kingdom. It was a disaster waiting to happen, and Disney owns this tragic mistake. (and this is coming from someone that is pro-Disney... I vacation at WDW on a yearly basis.)

I think families let their guard down and are definitely more carefree on holiday and less aware of danger particularly at Disney. The signage at the beach is totally inadequate for warning about no swimming and alligators and needs addressed ASAP.

 

[sonjay]

A grown man should be able to wrangle a gator that size enough to remove the victim, right? Might lose a finger or something? How much would that gator weigh approximately? It could be picked up?

Well I know over the last few weeks I've learnt there is some huuuge gators in Florida. The golf course one still has me :scared:

Edited to add, not blaming dad, thinking that the gator must have been a lot bigger than that if poor dad didn't stand a chance.

Yeah, the witness estimates are, I think, 4-7 feet. I think it had to be much closer to 7 than 4, and possibly even bigger. A 4-footer just really isn't that big.

A grown man could absolutely pick up a gator the size of the one in my picture. Just the other day, the neighbor kids hooked a gator while fishing, down at the river when we were there for our nightly sunset. It was about that size -- 4, maybe 5 feet. The neighbor kid -- a teenage boy about 14 -- picked it up completely out of the water.

 

[human]

I just don't think anyone is at fault. If I have a bbq and a wild animal attacks someone on my property is it my fault?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you charging big bucks to come to your bbq? Then you would be paying.

People may sue you if they were visiting as well.

 

[jnblsm]

I watched a segment on FNC where they interviewed Jack Hanna. He said once a gator gets food in its mouth, it's jaws clamp so tight that it's nearly impossible to open them. They're basically genetically-engineered that way.
I think the dad's first instinct would've been trying to get the baby out of it's mouth, not picking up the whole gator.
If you saw your little dog in the jaws of a bigger dog, would you pick up the big dog, or try to grab the little one.
ETA I guess my dog scenario doesn't make sense unless they were in the water. I was just trying to demonstrate that I doubt the dad would've thought to pick up the alligator.

 

[fourcatsonepup]

Disney does not need to put fences up! That is absurd. Should the beach be blocked off because of sharks? We have deadly snakes in FL as well.... could be anywhere! People these days just seem to lack common sense, in my opinion.

Going forward, Disney needs the correct signage if they don't want people going in the water. If people can't follow the rules, then that is their (people, not Disney) problem!

 

[sonjay]

I think families let their guard down and are definitely more carefree on holiday and less aware of danger particularly at Disney. The signage at the beach is totally inadequate for warning about no swimming and alligators and needs addressed ASAP.

BBM. We see that so much in Florida. Just because you're on vacation, it doesn't mean you're not still living in real life. Watch your kids. Safeguard your valuables. Lock your car. Don't tuck your wallet into your beach bag and leave it on your beach blanket while you go for an hour walk down the beach. Be aware of your surroundings. Bad guys love to target vacationers, exactly because they have their guard down. Condition white, all the time.

 

[sonjay]

I watched a segment on FNC where they interviewed Jack Hanna. He said once a gator gets food in its mouth, it's jaws clamp so tight that it's nearly impossible to open them. They're basically genetically-engineered that way.
I think the dad's first instinct would've been trying to get the baby out of it's mouth, not picking up the whole gator.
If you saw your little dog in the jaws of a bigger dog, would you pick up the big dog, or try to grab the little one.
ETA I guess my dog scenario doesn't make sense unless they were in the water. I was just trying to demonstrate that I doubt the dad would've thought to pick up the alligator.

Gators have tremendous bite force, with respect to holding their mouths closed. They have almost no strength to open their mouths, though. Gator wrestlers can hold their mouths closed with one hand.

Possibly because I've lived in Florida all my life and have seen thousands of gators of all sizes, if it were a small enough gator, I would definitely grab the whole gator if I couldn't immediately get it to drop my dog. I would do anything to keep it from dragging my dog underwater, because then the gator wins. I can understand how someone from Nebraska wouldn't necessarily think of that in the heat of the moment, though.

 

[SurfieTX]

Disney does not need to put fences up! That is absurd. Should the beach be blocked off because of sharks? We have deadly snakes in FL as well.... could be anywhere! People these days just seem to lack common sense, in my opinion.

Going forward, Disney needs the correct signage if they don't want people going in the water. If people can't follow the rules, then that is their (people, not Disney) problem!

No they do not. However, it should not be attractive/easily accessible to a child or an adult. Put sharp and awkward shaped rocks along the shore and further inland to deter both people and the gators. It's a pretty easy fix IMHO. And add some signs.

 

[human]

Is it possible he didn't actually try to drag the gator out? But was instead thrashing around in the water trying to get the baby away? Which of course wouldn't work well since gators are going to be twisting/rolling/thrashing and are much better in the water than humans are.

Personally I could see the dad doing that, ferociously trying to make the gator release the baby without thinking "just pull it out of the water and deal with it on land before the he disappears".

I think most of us are not trained alligator fighters nor would most people be searching the net on how to overcome an alligator.

I have never had the desire to go to Disney. It seemed too artificial to mre. I would rather spend my money on different kinds of experiences. I like the idea that it is so clean and well managed. I figured every need was met and every angle discussed for safety and an excellent experience for all. I would never dream that anything of nature would be allowed to interfere with people's experience. I would expect that they fog for insect and keep areas free of rodents. Those are the kinds of things a resort will do. Never in my wildest dreams would I think Disney would have free range alligators.

As an aside, Alberta , Canada allows no rats. Because of their geographic position, they have an advantage. If anyone sees a rat, they send out the rat patrol to take care if them.

 

[jnblsm]

That makes sense, being you've been around them. I haven't, which is why I was trying to relate with my dog scenario.
I feel like I need to state that I'm not comparing a toddler to a dog. I don't live around alligators and I don't have toddlers. Just trying to use what works in my life to wrap my brain around what the parents are going through.

 

[SurfieTX]

Hell, they could even label it a "wildlife sanctuary" and "please do not disturb the wildlife" type of thing with pictures of birds, gators, fish and whatnot.