GUILTY FL - Manhunt in Tampa after 4 slayings in 5 weeks, Oct-Nov 2017 #3 *Arrest*

[cujenn81]

I personally know parents who have hidden and covered for their child's crimes and unfortunately their 'child' (23 years old) went on to commit further and more serious crimes. To me, those parents are culpable in any additional crimes from the moment they knew or even suspected their son was up to something. Every victim in these shootings is also someone's child and those families deserve justice. Yes, a child's crimes tear a family apart and destroy their parents. But that destructive work has already been done and by their son's own hand, not by the prosecutors and not by the victims. I have sympathy for HD's parents, but they should either share everything they know, or they should be charged with obstruction. Accessory, if they had any knowledge at all of the crimes before his arrest.

MOO

You just worded that perfectly... and I couldn't agree with you more!

 

[Flowercb]

What I don't understand is how HD has the right to not incriminate himself by not speaking but the prosecution is allowed to go on a fishing expedition by forcing his parents to answer questions that could incriminate him. How does this make sense? If they have overwhelming evidence which they probably do, why do they have to force others to talk for their son. MOO.

 

[cujenn81]

I don't know if it's a fishing expedition, per se. I think the prosecution's primary goal is to find out if there's a history of mental illness, or abuse, or some other sort of traumatic experience.

His defense attorney can claim anything he wants to during the opening and closing statements, and he clearly has access to HD's parents. While the jury is told to make their decision based on the evidence alone, that doesn't mean they do it. Attorneys often make claims during their opening and/or closing statement and don't back them up with any real evidence. Yet, they still affect the outcome of a trial sometimes.

Just look at Casey Anthony, for example. Her parents were even subpoenaed to testify for the state, but the DA had no way to know the defense would make those claims about her father and brother. I think the CA trial maybe served as a harsh lesson to prosecutors everywhere and forces them to take extra precautions, in an attempt to prevent a similar scenario from happening to them.

 

[enelram]

What I don't understand is how HD has the right to not incriminate himself by not speaking but the prosecution is allowed to go on a fishing expedition by forcing his parents to answer questions that could incriminate him. How does this make sense? If they have overwhelming evidence which they probably do, why do they have to force others to talk for their son. MOO.

Excellent Question!! Now you've convinced me to look into this also. I'm also curious especially since the DP has been mentioned. This may help to understand/ explain the term "hostile witness".

 

[Flowercb]

I don't know if it's a fishing expedition, per se. I think the prosecution's primary goal is to find out if there's a history of mental illness, or abuse, or some other sort of traumatic experience.

His defense attorney can claim anything he wants to during the opening and closing statements, and he clearly has access to HD's parents. While the jury is told to make their decision based on the evidence alone, that doesn't mean they do it. Attorneys often make claims during their opening and/or closing statement and don't back them up with any real evidence. Yet, they still affect the outcome of a trial sometimes.

Just look at Casey Anthony, for example. Her parents were even subpoenaed to testify for the state, but the DA had no way to know the defense would make those claims about her father and brother. I think the CA trial maybe served as a harsh lesson to prosecutors everywhere and forces them to take extra precautions, in an attempt to prevent a similar scenario from happening to them.

The mental illness, abuse, etc. can be determined from a psychological assessment of the accused. No need for the prosecution to play psychiatrist.

Another point: Can the parents be called as witnesses? If so, can the prosecution not get the same information from them as witnesses? Does being a witness mean you have to answer preliminary questions before the trial as the prosecutor is requesting now?

 

[cujenn81]

The mental illness, abuse, etc. can be determined from a psychological assessment of the accused. No need for the prosecution to play psychiatrist.

Another point: Can the parents be called as witnesses? If so, can the prosecution not get the same information from them as witnesses? Does being a witness mean you have to answer preliminary questions before the trial as the prosecutor is requesting now?

His HISTORY of mental illness cannot be determined from a psych eval unless he willingly offers up that information to the person evaluating him, and it certainly cannot determine if there’s a history of mental illness somewhere else within his family (which is important to know because many of the illnesses are hereditary). Not only that, but his age coincides with the typical age of onset for illnesses like bipolar disorder and schizophrenia.

His parents cannot be called to testify unless they actually witnessed something or have personal knowledge about the crimes. If he wants to use them as an alibi, they will be called to testify about whether his statements are true. But, other than that, I see no reason why they should be called. Casey Anthony’s parents were subpoenaed and forced to testify for several different reasons -- her mom was the first to call and report that Caylee was missing and she told the police that CA had lied to her about being with "Zanny the Nanny", and her dad owned the car that CA abandoned with the bags full of trash in the trunk.

 

[SeesSeas]

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/semi...aives-scheduled-appearance-in-court/498581374
Accused Seminole Heights killer waives right to appear at court Tuesday
12:44 PM. EST December 11, 2017

 

[Deleted member 158085]

What I don't understand is how HD has the right to not incriminate himself by not speaking but the prosecution is allowed to go on a fishing expedition by forcing his parents to answer questions that could incriminate him. How does this make sense? If they have overwhelming evidence which they probably do, why do they have to force others to talk for their son. MOO.

Because we only have a legal right through the 5th not to incriminate ourselves. Can you imagine if no one was ever required to answer questions about crimes?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[SeesSeas]

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/...ler-enters-not-guilty-plea-on-suspects-behalf
Attorney of accused Seminole Heights killer enters not guilty plea on suspect's behalf
Donaldson waived his right to appear on Tues.
9:03 AM, Dec 12, 2017

 

[Bootsctr]

Court documents show possible link between murder suspect, Seminole Heights

TAMPA -- Does accused serial killer, Howell “Trai” Donaldson III have ties to the Seminole Heights neighborhood?

Did family as a whole have any connection to neighborhood?
Court documents point to a 2016 connection
Connection involves former boyfriend of suspect's sister

In a press conference a day after his arrest last month, Tampa Police Chief Brian Dugan said they were trying to figure out his ties to the area.

“We have not been able to find a connection his connection to the neighborhood yet. I always felt whoever was doing it was very familiar with the neighborhood,” Dugan said. “We have not been able to determine why he picked southeast Seminole Heights. We’re not sure if he had a friend there that he was staying with. There’s a lot of unanswered questions.”

http://www.baynews9.com/content/new...cles/bn9/2017/12/11/court_documents_show.html

Very interesting regarding HED's father. He filed for a restraining order against his daughter's BF in 2016.

 

[dotr]

Court documents show possible link between murder suspect, Seminole Heights

TAMPA -- Does accused serial killer, Howell “Trai” Donaldson III have ties to the Seminole Heights neighborhood?

Did family as a whole have any connection to neighborhood?
Court documents point to a 2016 connection
Connection involves former boyfriend of suspect's sister

In a press conference a day after his arrest last month, Tampa Police Chief Brian Dugan said they were trying to figure out his ties to the area.

“We have not been able to find a connection his connection to the neighborhood yet. I always felt whoever was doing it was very familiar with the neighborhood,” Dugan said. “We have not been able to determine why he picked southeast Seminole Heights. We’re not sure if he had a friend there that he was staying with. There’s a lot of unanswered questions.”

http://www.baynews9.com/content/new...cles/bn9/2017/12/11/court_documents_show.html

Very interesting regarding HED's father. He filed for a restraining order against his daughter's BF in 2016.

Very interesting!
from your link

Court documents show in 2016, Donaldson Jr. filed a petition for injunction for protection against stalking, also known as a restraining order, against his daughter’s boyfriend.

Donaldson Jr. accused the boyfriend of threatening their family and telling Donaldson Jr. if he had a gun he would shoot him. The document also shows that the suspect’s mother, sister and brother were listed on the order of protection, but the suspect’s name is not listed.

We’re not naming the boyfriend because the injunction was denied by a judge. The judge cited that the facts as alleged didn’t meet Florida statues definition of stalking.

However, we did look into the boyfriend’s background and several of his arrest records. Those records show his most recent arrest lists his address at a home in Seminole Heights.

Further, the boyfriend's address is a five-minute walk from where the first victim, Benjamin Mitchell was killed. It’s an eight-minute walk from where the body of the second victim, Monica Hoffa, was found, a four-minute walk from where the third victim, Anthony Naiboa, was murdered and an eight-minute walk from where the fourth victim, Ronald Felton was gunned down.

We asked the state attorney’s office if they were looking into this connection. A spokesperson said they couldn’t confirm or deny if they were looking into this because they don’t reveal case strategy.

rbbm

 

[human]

The killer was living in New York at that time. Did he come home for summer vacation? Was he home during longer breaks such as winter and semester breaks?

 

[cmiller8617]

The killer was living in New York at that time. Did he come home for summer vacation? Was he home during longer breaks such as winter and semester breaks?

If HD was living in NY that would explain why his name wasn't listed on the restraining order with the rest of the family.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[dotr]

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/semi...dalized-what-can-be-done-to-stop-it/498880719

There’s been a disturbing development in the Seminole Heights neighborhood where four murders took place recently.

Relatives say several of the victims' memorials are being vandalized.

Casamir Naiboa, the father of Seminole Heights murder victim Anthony Naiboa, says in some ways it feels like his family is being victimized again. This time by the heartless vandals who, on an almost daily basis he says, deface Anthony’s roadside marker.

Casamir Naiboa says they come to visit his son's memorial and find plants and candles stolen, figurines crushed, and balloons shredded.

The Naiboa memorial itself sits just outside the home belonging to relatives of Benjamin Mitchell, another Seminole Heights murder victim.

“It’s a grieving process for anybody,” said Mitchell's cousin Cydne Steele.

 

[Flowercb]

How can this guy plead not guilty? Mental illness, insanity...

 

[human]

How can this guy plead not guilty? Mental illness, insanity...

Not guilty is a legal manuever. The reasons for it can be googled.

 

[Flowercb]

Not guilty is a legal manuever. The reasons for it can be googled.

For those interested, here is an article that explains the strategy of pleading not guilty, even when you clearly are.

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2012/02/why-do-guilty-people-plead-not-guilty.html

 

[Hatfield]

For those interested, here is an article that explains the strategy of pleading not guilty, even when you clearly are.

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2012/02/why-do-guilty-people-plead-not-guilty.html

Those were good points.

Something that ties along with this that I have seen used time and time again which was not mentioned is it delays things. Pleading not-guilty will begin the process of delaying things.

If you ever notice the first thing a defense attorney will do is try to get the dates of court appearances delayed. If trial is set to start on Day 1 then defense is surely going to ask the judge for a delay to Day 50.

Why is that helpful to the defense you may ask. I used to ask myself this a lot and I think I have finally understood it. There are a ton of advantages when a defense attorney begins to delay things.

First and foremost the emotional turmoil begins to settle down the longer things go on. The public outcry begins to settle down. If things are delayed for years then by the time a trial starts there is not nearly the anger and emotional turmoil. Dont get me wrong. The victims will still surely be just as upset but its the other people and extended witnesses that the defense is relying on for things to settle some.

Delaying things also causes some witnesses to forget exactly what happened. This is huge to the defense. Certain people will forget things or at least forget all the details they once knew.

Even another benefit of delaying is some witnesses may become unavailable or reluctant to testify as time goes on. Another huge benefit to the defense.

Even another reason is things just change over time. Anything can happen over time. A star prosecution witness in the case may get himself arrested for a crime of his own.

I am sure there are even more reasons.

By pleading not guilty it begins the defense strategy of delaying things. Its a proven strategy that almost always benefits the defense more than the prosecution.

 

[Bootsctr]

Accused Seminole Heights killer's parents' case will move to criminal court

A new date set for contempt of court hearing for the parents of the accused Seminole Heights killer. January 25th

[video=youtube;nnp6pgC3QrE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=nnp6pgC3QrE&app=desktop[/video]

 

[dotr]

http://www.baynews9.com/content/new...cles/bn9/2017/12/16/man_who_provided_sem.html

[h=1]Man who provided Seminole Heights video says no one's thanked him[/h]

For weeks, the images of a tall thin shadowy figure walking to and running from the crime scenes was the most the public had to go on in finding the person behind the killings of four people.

That video belonged to Patrick Holladay and he says, as of yet, no one has so much as thanked him for it--not to mention offered up any reward money

.

However, Tampa Police Chief Brian Dugan says there will be a time set aside to thank everyone in the near future.

“Once we get through the holidays we're going to bring everybody in a more formal setting and give them a personal thank you," Dugan said. "Because even though thank yous not enough, it is amazing to see what people have done.”