FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse Nightclub, Orlando 12 June 2016 #4

[Magdalyn]

He actually loved gay people and just had a hard way of expressing himself. Is that the acceptable narrative?

Bueller? ...... Bueller?

Apparently not! :toast:

 

[HMSHood]

I see more in line with Andrew Cunanan.

Forgot about him too.

 

[deoneta]

So who exactly qualifies as a "legit" terrorist? Nidal Hisan, workplace violence. The San Bernadino shooters, gun violence. The Tsarneav brothers, unable to assimilate. The Paris and Brussels killers, marginalized second generationers who lacked economic opportunity. Are there any real terrorists, or is radical Islamic terrorism not even a concern? I got to give myself time out.

 

[HMSHood]

This looks like Omar Mateen's handwriting.

Should be interesting to look at and analyze.

It is from 2006, so it may change by 2016.

Before Orlando massacre, killer Omar Mateen visited parents one last time
http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...-mateen-visited-parents-one-last-time/2281507

The same year, records show, he went to court in St. Lucie County to change his name from Omar Mir Seddique to Omar Mir Seddique Mateen — to match his parents' surname.

 

[CARIIS]

I am befuddled. Media relentless scouting stuff. Its not a big bar. Its basically like three connected rooms. WIth a high powered rifle what do you need to case. You pull the trigger.

Like what would in this scenario - need to be cased. A stadium I get!

It cant be like he really could believe that he could escape out the back door?

I dont buy the Disney scouting either, but that would be a little more understandable

 

[CARIIS]

Forgot about him too.

Thats good!! Agree

 

[Strangeworld]

Something I’ve been pondering today after reading an earlier post (sorry, I can’t remember who posted it!) about the reasons why some radical Islamic men may engage in sex acts with boys or other men, as witnessed by Western forces in war zones. [I need to state straight up that any non-consensual sex or sex with minors is abhorrent and should not be excused by any faith or belief]. Regardless of how we may view the sex acts as homosexuality (or rape/abuse depending on the circumstances), they explain it away by virtue of their beliefs. This is probably why they can justify killing a homosexual male, but then engage in the same PHYSICAL acts for religious reasons.

I’m just wondering if Mateen’s motivations were not as simple as been gay. Was he exploring the possibility of engaging in above-mentioned sex acts through apps, going to gay clubs, etc? He may have wanted to ‘live the life’ of a radical Islamic believer.

I was also thinking under any other circumstances, would it not be inappropriate to slap a label on someone i.e. he is gay, if he doesn’t identify with said label? I know in the LGBTQ community it wouldn’t be appropriate to tell someone else what their sexuality is if they don’t identify with it personally. Obviously I know we will never be able to ask Mateen straight out, just thinking aloud. And whilst homophobia does often present in those not free to express homosexual tendencies, we have another element in the mix here - an extremist religious ideology that encourages homosexual acts without identifying as a homosexual.

Of course I know there are many in the world who for whatever reason can’t or choose not to acknowledge their sexual orientation openly, but these were just a couple of thoughts I had today.

 

[barcode]

I was also thinking under any other circumstances, would it not be inappropriate to slap a label on someone i.e. he is gay, if he doesn’t identify with said label? I know in the LGBTQ community.

A couple of days ago I posted something close to this......I wonder if he was the Q in LGBTQ for questioning and that he tried to destroy the very community he was part of.

 

[CARIIS]

Ah ha!

Police chief:

Here is the deal! It goes along with the one report I read that the cop was outside dealing with underage drinking deal. He heard gunshots ran in, called for backup and the perp ran to the bathroom to get away from the cop. Police were actually inside the bar quickly. He retreated to the bathroom. During that time peroid cops got a lot of people out while he was in bathroom.

They then knew they were in hostage mode cause he was back there with them . Cheif immed called negiator in , and began setting up the breach of the building by both bathrooms cause knew there were hostages in those bathrooms.

There was little gun fire for a while cause he was talking with the negiator. Breech set up and ready to go. He then told LE that he has bombs and vests and was going to put bombs on four hostages.

He said then he gave a 15 minute warning (perp) not sure about what. That was when cheif ordered the breach.

So it was wrong about the outside shooting.

 

[kimlynn]

He is 100 percent a terrorist. IMO He made sure everyone knew he pledged his allegiance to ISIS no matter what the reason it is a terrorist act on his part.

It was an act meant to instill fear and terror,but did he actually have any connections with terror groups. When he was investigated by the FBI for his comments to co-workers,he said he made the comments due to feeling discriminated against by co-workers.
His claimed to co-workers he was involved with two groups that are rivals against each other.
I don't doubt he acted out of hate and possibly due to some extremist views he came across while watching videos,but so far nothing points to a connection with Isis other than his last words.
Regardless people have still lost lives and many are injured as a result of his actions. IMO

 

[Strangeworld]

It was an act meant to instill fear and terror,but did he actually have any connections with terror groups. When he was investigated by the FBI for his comments to co-workers,he said he made the comments due to feeling discriminated against by co-workers.
His claimed to co-workers he was involved with two groups that are rivals against each other.
I don't doubt he acted out of hate and possibly due to some extremist views he came across while watching videos,but so far nothing points to a connection with Isis other than his last words.
Regardless people have still lost lives and many are injured as a result of his actions. IMO

Direct connections with ISIS or other extremist groups aren't necessary anymore. Its like the second wave of terrorism, the lone wolf. It's cheaper (ISIS, etc don't need to fund it or provide resources), and all they need to do is keep releasing extremist information through the internet and social media encouraging lone wolf attacks. It's actually a smart strategy, albeit a heinous one. And the terror is twofold - fear the extremist group, but also potentially fear your next door neighbour, your work colleague and so on. Scary stuff.

 

[Cricket99]

I am clear across the US from this horrific crime and yet the Radio Station DJ's in the same town I am (one male and one female) were in tears talking about this loss. It made it hit home :angel::rose:

 

[kimlynn]

Direct connections with ISIS or other extremist groups aren't necessary anymore. Its like the second wave of terrorism, the lone wolf. It's cheaper (ISIS, etc don't need to fund it or provide resources), and all they need to do is keep releasing extremist information through the internet and social media encouraging lone wolf attacks. It's actually a smart strategy, albeit a heinous one. And the terror is twofold - fear the extremist group, but also potentially fear your next door neighbour, your work colleague and so on. Scary stuff.

It will be interesting to see what turns up in his social media browsing and you're correct...it is scary.

 

[Magdalyn]

So who exactly qualifies as a "legit" terrorist? Nidal Hisan, workplace violence. The San Bernadino shooters, gun violence. The Tsarneav brothers, unable to assimilate. The Paris and Brussels killers, marginalized second generationers who lacked economic opportunity. Are there any real terrorists, or is radical Islamic terrorism not even a concern? I got to give myself time out.

Don't forget, with Charlie Hebdo, it was the cartoons' fault.

 

[wendiesan]

I am appalled that his current wife/widow could have known of his plans and did not try to warn anyone that this was happening. She could have phoned a tip line. She could have walked up to a beat cop. She could have called Pulse and warned the staff, yet she did nothing.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/14/us/orlando-gunman-omar-mateen-wife-fbi/

 

[CARIIS]

Right. I lurk. Always. But I'm stunned.

In addition to your valid points , he enjoyed two trips to The Kingdom, was under investigation by the FBI twice for terror ties, he had some sort of affiliation with the American who blew himself up in Syria....and he, himself, proclaimed his allegiance to Daesh.

But he was gay. So obviously, he can't be your run of the mill Islamic Terrorist. It has to be "deeper" than that.

Imho

Can someone explain this two trips to The Kingdom, not being nasty is there "proof" that this happened. I saw something but then it vanished from the story??

 

[CARIIS]

per link earlier

Here we go , now the mental health issues are emerging

In December 1995, while in fourth grade, Mateen was referred to a student study team — comprising a teacher, psychologist, guidance counselor and parent — for continuing to hit students,

disruptive student


— marked by constant outbursts and classroom insubordination —
difficulties in conforming to class/school rules,” c

numerous disruptions, for striking a student and for disrespectful behavior .

.... third grade, Mateen was verbally abusive, rude and aggressive, violence and obscenities, documents revealed.

, hit students, talking out in class and screaming at teachers

He consistently defied his teacher, dancing and mimicking the teacher
“He is capable if he could just stay focused more than 5 minutes.”
his schedule was changed to alleviate peer pressure, reports showed.

AM not diagnosing anything just pointing out:


"Conduct disorder" refers to a group of behavioral and emotional problems in youngsters. Children and adolescents with this disorder have great difficulty following rules and behaving in a socially acceptable way. They are often viewed by other children, adults and social agencies as "bad" or delinquent, rather than mentally ill. Many factors may contribute to a child developing conduct disorder, including brain damage, child abuse or neglect, genetic vulnerability, school failure, and traumatic life experiences.

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/crime/st-lucie-county/exclusive-mateens-violent-disruptive-behavior-a-pattern-stretching-back-to-elementary-school-35548e3-383167571.html

http://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_and_Youth/Facts_for_Families/FFF-Guide/Conduct-Disorder-033.aspx

 

[rsd1200]

Vigils Span The World
http://www.thegailygrind.com/2016/06/13/pulse-massacre-vigils/

 

[Ayashley]

Everyone's so worried about his motives, but the only one who can tell us that is OM... And he's dead, so we'll never truly know.

 

[rsd1200]

per link earlier

Here we go , now the mental health issues are emerging

In December 1995, while in fourth grade, Mateen was referred to a student study team — comprising a teacher, psychologist, guidance counselor and parent — for continuing to hit students,

disruptive student


— marked by constant outbursts and classroom insubordination —
difficulties in conforming to class/school rules,” c

numerous disruptions, for striking a student and for disrespectful behavior .

.... third grade, Mateen was verbally abusive, rude and aggressive, violence and obscenities, documents revealed.

, hit students, talking out in class and screaming at teachers

He consistently defied his teacher, dancing and mimicking the teacher
“He is capable if he could just stay focused more than 5 minutes.”
his schedule was changed to alleviate peer pressure, reports showed.

AM not diagnosing anything just pointing out:


"Conduct disorder" refers to a group of behavioral and emotional problems in youngsters. Children and adolescents with this disorder have great difficulty following rules and behaving in a socially acceptable way. They are often viewed by other children, adults and social agencies as "bad" or delinquent, rather than mentally ill. Many factors may contribute to a child developing conduct disorder, including brain damage, child abuse or neglect, genetic vulnerability, school failure, and traumatic life experiences.

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/crime/st-lucie-county/exclusive-mateens-violent-disruptive-behavior-a-pattern-stretching-back-to-elementary-school-35548e3-383167571.html

http://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_and_Youth/Facts_for_Families/FFF-Guide/Conduct-Disorder-033.aspx

They can outgrow conduct disorders, if they've not outgrown them by around mid to late 20s then the likelihood of outgrowing them, and catching up in maturity, is not likely. Most w/ ODD or other type of conduct disorders have to learn, from repeatedly making the same mistakes, over and over, jail doesn't even work, therapy doesn't for the most part. Only learning through error and it finally sinking in that they don't like the consequences of their behavior.