FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, brutally murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #2

[PositiveLight]

Speaking of grabbing anything to drink along his path, so many people put dangerous liquids in drink bottles like Gatorade for example without marking them properly (dangerous marked or not IMO) so he could have easily thought he was drinking Gatorade or Powerade only to be drinking something horribly caustic or deadly. I have a daughter with bi polar disorder. I can tell you that it can get rough at times. The super highs and super lows. As a nurse I could tell from a younger age (14) something wasn't right and she was medicated properly for the depression but she hadn't had a manic episode until after her 17th birthday. So they were unable to properly diagnose her until that happened. Although I saw the signs early on, from a doctor's official diagnosis perspective, something major had to happen on the mania end. I can always tell now when she's missed even a day of her meds. We are very open with feelings and emotions and that gives her a safe place to voice what is on her mind. She's learning to notice her small signals now where before only I or her dad noticed. But I can promise you this: a walk and talk would never have helped my daughter. She needs her medication to function normally and she knows it. Occasionally she forgets a dose if she falls asleep watching a movie for example. But it is quickly caught by either her or us. It's hard on someone when everyone around them are in denial. They feel they are doing something wrong constantly and feel out of control. It's the same as having a heart issue. It's a disease that can cause really terrible times for the individual. Many times a person will self medicate with ANYTHING if it makes them feel better or different. JMO and my experiences with my daughter. Each person is sooooo different and needs to be handled differently.

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[TDW59]

I don't believe Dad and son were on the same page with a team attitude of you got this coz we got this together, I 'll help you get thro.

Because Dad acts adversarially in the restaurant grabbing at him shouting "What is wrong with you?" along with the neighbors reports of the two of them fighting. Not just behind closed doors anymore.

I think the issue at work was said to be about religion, if that is so, I don't think that would necessarily cause one to say "he's ill", new converts can be very enthusiastic right? I went to an emergency dentist and on the front of the paper was my medical instructions and on the back side was effectively a religious pamphlet for how to be saved, even sharing his phone number. I just figured the guy was an evangelical.

I think "shock therapy" has enlightened dad.

ETA: Your daughter is lucky to have you, PositiveLight. Now, why would anyone put chemicals in drink bottles? People really do that?
I guess I should go watch the show.

 

[PositiveLight]

I don't believe Dad and son were on the same page with a team attitude of you got this coz we got this together, I 'll help you get thro.

Because Dad acts adversarially in the restaurant grabbing at him shouting "What is wrong with you?" along with the neighbors reports of the two of them fighting. Not just behind closed doors anymore.

I think the issue at work was said to be about religion, if that is so, I don't think that would necessarily cause one to say "he's ill", new converts can be very enthusiastic right? I went to an emergency dentist and on the front of the paper was my medical instructions and on the back side was effectively a religious pamphlet for how to be saved, even sharing his phone number. I just figured the guy was an evangelical.

I think "shock therapy" has enlightened dad.

ETA: Your daughter is lucky to have you, PositiveLight. Now, why would anyone put chemicals in drink bottles? People really do that?
I guess I should go watch the show.

You got that right. Dad seems to have known all the right buttons to push. Upsets me that the dad being a doctor wasn't more helpful. You know though some people feel it's a sign of weakness to be sick. (Makes me so sad to witness). Not making excuses for the perp mind you. I think it was a multiple layers situation that led to the ending. And as someone said earlier, he may now be receiving his punishment.

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[PositiveLight]

I don't believe Dad and son were on the same page with a team attitude of you got this coz we got this together, I 'll help you get thro.

Because Dad acts adversarially in the restaurant grabbing at him shouting "What is wrong with you?" along with the neighbors reports of the two of them fighting. Not just behind closed doors anymore.

I think the issue at work was said to be about religion, if that is so, I don't think that would necessarily cause one to say "he's ill", new converts can be very enthusiastic right? I went to an emergency dentist and on the front of the paper was my medical instructions and on the back side was effectively a religious pamphlet for how to be saved, even sharing his phone number. I just figured the guy was an evangelical.

I think "shock therapy" has enlightened dad.

ETA: Your daughter is lucky to have you, PositiveLight. Now, why would anyone put chemicals in drink bottles? People really do that?
I guess I should go watch the show.

And sadly yes people still do this with poisons. Even when they tear the label off, a Gatorade bottle still is recognized. Especially by children but I could imagine someone mentally unstable, on drugs and thirsty would easily drink it. Think about Windex being in a Gatorade bottle. There are flavors that are the same blue. I do hope they release the tox report soon. It would help treat him too.
I keep thinking about the victims families right now and my heart aches for them.

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[GeeEm]

I have read all the posts, some of the links, none of the youtube.

I am outing myself as one of the "they". I have manic-depression (bipolar I), anxiety, PTSD & have had psychotic breaks.


It is not true that signals of impending crisis or one in full progress is usually recognized, even by psychiatrists, social workers, hospital admin.

What we later put together as a pattern of signs is usually dealt with by us and others in a singular fashion at the time of it's occurrence. For instance, with me, what is later called impulsivity was previously regarded as spontaneity, manifested in an exagerated trait of one's known personality.

Mental illness is very confusing for both it's sufferers & those around them.

I listen to alternative rock on my way to my pdoc & therapist. That song Ghost in the Fog was very popular on the radio. It is talking about addiction. I never understand the words but it was an attractive song melodically to me.So, I don't find that very telling of anything.

The grill for the teeth had some little significance, imo with dad as a dentist, but not overly much. There are spooky eye contacts that are popular too. There is a subculture of kids who are having a hard time shocking us. They have pierced everything all over their faces. Goths. Steampunk. The morbid & grotesque has a popularity with our youth. He had done his hair in a mohawk, which is not uncommon but still unconventional.

I think he did have an issue with steroids. He tells us so, imo.

He may have been getting high too.

Behavior is very complex and our actions and reactions are multi-factored.

As is happening, we are looking back and saying, look see the predetermination of a mental break. Things usually are ,in fact, over-determined. Not void of a cause but rather there being many.

I have more to say but keep losing my connection.

Hi TDW59

I am sorry for all that you go through, I do hope things are under control and thank God you received help.

I want to thank you for shedding light on the subject, I hope you get a good connection and continue to post.

The doctors through MSM stated he did not have drugs in his system, however, I do hope the toxicology report comes back soon.

Stay strong!

Thanks ~

jmo :moo:

 

[glf]

I am wondering too. Can his attorney block the public or even LE from seeing the tox report?

He probably could, but that really wouldn't help his case in any way. Since LE isn't looking for another possible suspect, there isn't much reason to keep everything away from the public. In fact, his lawyer may want the info out to try to get a little sympathy for Austin. If he gets well, anyway. That is the $64000.00 question right now.

P.S. I don't believe the info could be withheld from LE. I would guess they are pretty much through with their investigation, as Austin was still on the Steven's property and was actively attacking John.

 

[GeeEm]

Speaking of grabbing anything to drink along his path, so many people put dangerous liquids in drink bottles like Gatorade for example without marking them properly (dangerous marked or not IMO) so he could have easily thought he was drinking Gatorade or Powerade only to be drinking something horribly caustic or deadly. I have a daughter with bi polar disorder. I can tell you that it can get rough at times. The super highs and super lows. As a nurse I could tell from a younger age (14) something wasn't right and she was medicated properly for the depression but she hadn't had a manic episode until after her 17th birthday. So they were unable to properly diagnose her until that happened. Although I saw the signs early on, from a doctor's official diagnosis perspective, something major had to happen on the mania end. I can always tell now when she's missed even a day of her meds. We are very open with feelings and emotions and that gives her a safe place to voice what is on her mind. She's learning to notice her small signals now where before only I or her dad noticed. But I can promise you this: a walk and talk would never have helped my daughter. She needs her medication to function normally and she knows it. Occasionally she forgets a dose if she falls asleep watching a movie for example. But it is quickly caught by either her or us. It's hard on someone when everyone around them are in denial. They feel they are doing something wrong constantly and feel out of control. It's the same as having a heart issue. It's a disease that can cause really terrible times for the individual. Many times a person will self medicate with ANYTHING if it makes them feel better or different. JMO and my experiences with my daughter. Each person is sooooo different and needs to be handled differently.

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Hi PostiveLight,

So glad you shared your story on mental illness as well, and I am so glad your daughter has you for a parent. You stated you witnessed the signs at an early age, however, until something happened, you knew in your heart something wasn't right.

I agree, it is a terrible disease and people will try to self medicate with anything to get to feeling better, I have seen it happen with a family member with a drug addiction from a dentist prescription.
Just so sad.

However, I do believe that AH's symptoms would have started 'before' a two week span, and others would have noticed a change in his behavior before all this took place. I guess what bothers me the most, everything bad that happens, someone wants to put the blame on Mental Illness and it just isn't fair.

Again, I do not know AH, nor any family member, but I have observed the videos, watched the news outlets, read the papers, and somehow I just do not see mental illness.

Thanks ~

jmo :moo:

 

[flourish]

Speaking of grabbing anything to drink along his path, so many people put dangerous liquids in drink bottles like Gatorade for example without marking them properly (dangerous marked or not IMO) so he could have easily thought he was drinking Gatorade or Powerade only to be drinking something horribly caustic or deadly. I have a daughter with bi polar disorder. I can tell you that it can get rough at times. The super highs and super lows. As a nurse I could tell from a younger age (14) something wasn't right and she was medicated properly for the depression but she hadn't had a manic episode until after her 17th birthday. So they were unable to properly diagnose her until that happened. Although I saw the signs early on, from a doctor's official diagnosis perspective, something major had to happen on the mania end. I can always tell now when she's missed even a day of her meds. We are very open with feelings and emotions and that gives her a safe place to voice what is on her mind. She's learning to notice her small signals now where before only I or her dad noticed. But I can promise you this: a walk and talk would never have helped my daughter. She needs her medication to function normally and she knows it. Occasionally she forgets a dose if she falls asleep watching a movie for example. But it is quickly caught by either her or us. It's hard on someone when everyone around them are in denial. They feel they are doing something wrong constantly and feel out of control. It's the same as having a heart issue. It's a disease that can cause really terrible times for the individual. Many times a person will self medicate with ANYTHING if it makes them feel better or different. JMO and my experiences with my daughter. Each person is sooooo different and needs to be handled differently.

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Good point. My stupid ex used to put transmission fluid in old Diet Coke bottles... Someone in their right mind might notice it smelled weird but a child or someone not in their right mind may not

 

[flourish]

I don't believe Dad and son were on the same page with a team attitude of you got this coz we got this together, I 'll help you get thro.

Because Dad acts adversarially in the restaurant grabbing at him shouting "What is wrong with you?" along with the neighbors reports of the two of them fighting. Not just behind closed doors anymore.

I think the issue at work was said to be about religion, if that is so, I don't think that would necessarily cause one to say "he's ill", new converts can be very enthusiastic right? I went to an emergency dentist and on the front of the paper was my medical instructions and on the back side was effectively a religious pamphlet for how to be saved, even sharing his phone number. I just figured the guy was an evangelical.

I think "shock therapy" has enlightened dad.

ETA: Your daughter is lucky to have you, PositiveLight. Now, why would anyone put chemicals in drink bottles? People really do that?
I guess I should go watch the show.

Yikes about your dentist. That would freak me out! I grew up in a somewhat stifling religious environment so I don't react well to that kind thing.

 

[TDW59]

Ok, I watched the Dr. Phil show. It gave me the willies.

AH did demonstrate a classic set of behaviors that put him at high and immediate risk of crisis.

He was unable to sleep and was up pacing. His demeanor and or focus would likely look serious when pacing. Because it is. Odds are he was hearing voices internally. Maybe even seeing things. One tries very hard to use self talk to corral those voices which are insistent and destructive most of the time.. A psychologist can't help and you probably can't get a first appointment for a psychiatrist/prescriber fast enough. It is time to go to the emergency room.

Never be afraid to ask someone if they are suicidal. You will not be putting the idea into their head. Even if they have been depressed before and came out it, each episode tends to progressively be worse.
I read on thread 1, he had made suicidal threats. If so, trip straight to the ER. I don't know if that has been verified?

Sure, there are soft signs in the areas of religiosity & etc such as Dr Phil pointed out but there is leeway there.. I am presuming anyone would know to take someone who was floridly delusional or paranoid straight in.

The 4 boxes to tick off in first evaluating is 1) eating? 2) sleeping ? 3) hearing things? 4) seeing things? and I would add 5) suicidal/homicidal?

and. "we" might not want to tell you, may even lie.
But you still would see if someone basically stopped eating (like that rigorous diet), stopped sleeping and is pacing, lack of focus, perhaps racing thoughts. These are behavorial symptoms and they are very serious indicators. super powers only has meaning to me when it is used in the context of these other behaviors.

So, yes ugh, I do think this was preventable, except I do not expect everyone to know these signal behaviors and what they mean.

Thank you very graciously for the welcome. My mind is doing well atm, however my functioning is severely depressed. In other words, I don't feel badly nor does my thinking feel in a fog from the strong meds and I am sleeping really well which I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. But I have sort of given up on housework and keep waiting to get some motivation and energy to get my chores in a routine again. I read vociferously and write about current issues elsewhere.

I would like to be a fly on the wall and hear exactly what dad reported to his psychologist colleague

Whew, it always makes me feel ill when I follow one of these cases and see the signs that portend the crime. I know we have all been there together more times than we recall..

 

[CARIIS]

When I suffered heat stroke the last thing I could have done was walk another 2 miles, stabbed three people bit a face and held off the police force. I fainted. Something about being dehydrated might be from drug abuse.

Extasy type drugs (date rape drug) and water and thirst are highly interrelated .Wonder if he tried to rape her??

They have yet to explain his blood inside his car . WOnder if he drove up and he was trying to rape her. She was in garage, he in driveway.

Water Issues with MDMA use
Dehydration, Over-Hydration & Heat Stroke

https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_health_water.shtml

Would bleeding (esphgus, gut) cause your core body temp to go down??


Remember the sheriff saying "there was a lot going on with him"

diarrhea, over salivation, stupor, vomiting, muscle tremors, confusion, frequent urination, and other general symptoms of illness, and their brain begins to swell.

 

[CARIIS]

The Palm Beach Post is wondering why it's taking so long to get the toxicology results back:
http://opinionzone.blog.palmbeachpo...in-harrouff-toxicology-report-taking-so-long/

Join the club here at WS! At least WE have support now TY Palm Beach Post!

I am pretty sure they have to be given permission by someone to release to public. I would assume dad would have that legal authroity connsidering his condition.

Would drug screening be in the same cat as autopsy ?

Zachary Marr the guy who vanished NEVER was released.

 

[glf]

Yes, temperature could drop and or fluctuate R/T whatever substance he put into his body. The body immediately begins to analyze the situation to decide what it needs to do to take care of the problem.

 

[CARIIS]

I am wondering too. Can his attorney block the public or even LE from seeing the tox report?

What is really bothersome, for a long time, in Zachs case, they acted like they were waiting, and like here, giving the impression that it would be released and it never happened

If this is the expediated time frame - how long does it take on one that isn't Jeez!

So I decided I would check it out: article several years old but in the other case what the Sheriff explained sounds like not much has changed.

bath salts being a new product with no exact chemical composition, toxicology companies have struggled to produce a detection technique. As many bath salts are made up of a large drug concoction, with current tests only detecting an individual drug and not a variety of drugs, this also decreases the possibility of detection.

Due to the high demand for detection of these bath salts, brands on the market have begun to step up to the demand. Below is a report which was written about the detection of bath salts and which brands detected the designer drugs. From the findings it shows that the only brand to produce fully comprehensive results for bath salts was the drug specific kit

. If ingested orally, absorption is rapid with a peak at 1.5 hours with the effect lasting 3 to 4 hours. Like drugs such as Cocaine there is a hard “crash” when the drug wears off.
Users of bath salts have reported experiencingbehavior, heart attack, kidney and liver failure, an increased tolerance for pain, dehydration

2011 the amount of cases peaked to 6,137, with cases decreasing in 2012 to 2,691 and 2013 to 996.

due to the amount of chemicals being used in the drugs, these are becoming harder to detect. With limited toxicology products available to detect the increased variety in these drugs, detection is rapidly decreasing.



The aim of the report was to evaluate the performance of commercially available screening immunoassays, for detecting a wide range of designer drugs.
understand how these important drugs can be detected,if at all, by currently available immunoassays, even where cross-reactivity is not expected.


An important conclusion from this data is that current immunoassay-based screening methods may not be ideal for presumptively identifying most designer drugs, including the “bath salts”.

http://www.forensicmag.com/article/...h-salts-their-effects-and-how-do-we-test-them

 

[CARIIS]

Good point. My stupid ex


used to put transmission fluid in old Diet Coke bottles... Someone in their right mind might notice it smelled weird but a child or someone not in their right mind may not

Cracked me up! Thought, well all of that is congruent!!!

 

[glf]

I remember being three, and my mom told me Katy, a girl my age had taken a cup off the washing machine and started drinking the "water" that was actually bleach and had to go to the hospital! As bad as that tastes, I doubt she drank more than a sip or two, but I remember my mom telling me it was poison and could make you really sick. Knowing her mom, I'm sure she was getting ready to put it in the washer, and didn't see Katy pick it up.

 

[CARIIS]

I wish media could their basic facts correct - its kinda there JOB!


She stopped him, but he poured it into a bowl with Parmesan cheese and ate it.

had not seen this one whois takin g care of the cute doggie

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-dad-believes-son-poisoned.html#ixzz4JipaI2zK
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[ninij9]

Good point. My stupid ex used to put transmission fluid in old Diet Coke bottles... Someone in their right mind might notice it smelled weird but a child or someone not in their right mind may not

My mom used to put laundry detergent (don't recall the brand but it was a pink liquid, maybe FAB or BOLD) in a glass measuring cup until one day my five year old self wandered into the basement and said "OOH koolaid" and proceeded to take a swig....however, I WAS 5. I don't really see AH drinking anything by mistake, but perhaps in a crazed state of mind drank something to hurt himself on purpose. Until we have that timeline confirmed I'm going with he drank the caustic material well after the psychotic episode began. And no way do I think the caustic liquid had anything whatsoever to do with why he killed the couple. Anyway, all jmo.

And no I didn't get sick from the "koolaid". It tasted awful and I spit it out and ran screaming to mom for help. Now it's always blue or green isn't it? Wonder if it happened enough that the makers realised the stuff resembled soft drinks?

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[CARIIS]

I was curious how many people watched phil yesterday could not find that but he is 16 out of 25. Judge Judy rules in the number one postion good lord!!

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/09/08/syndicated-tv-ratings-aug-22-28-2016/

[FONT=Lato, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] Someone posted that he is doing another interview - anyone heard any more about that??[/FONT]

 

[ninij9]

I remember being three, and my mom told me Katy, a girl my age had taken a cup off the washing machine and started drinking the "water" that was actually bleach and had to go to the hospital! As bad as that tastes, I doubt she drank more than a sip or two, but I remember my mom telling me it was poison and could make you really sick. Knowing her mom, I'm sure she was getting ready to put it in the washer, and didn't see Katy pick it up.

I just posted my experience with laundry detergent before catching up and seeing your post.

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