FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #20

[Jersey*Girl]

I'm sorry that you went through all of that. It hurts me sometimes to see children at the mercy of our laws and courts that are there to protect them, but sometimes have their hands tied. I am for reunification, but there is a human cost to that when it goes wrong, and sometimes it does, horribly and tragically wrong.

I believe that we need to respect the desires of children more, and not assume that we KNOW what is best for them. If you were adamant that you wanted to live with your nona, or these kids were adamant that they wanted to live with Yvonne (or Dale for that matter) we should take that into account. They have rights y'know? We assume that they are totally helpless, but children know, they know where they want to be, if they feel safe, loved, or comfortable. They have very good instincts and know when they are in danger. They just might be too afraid to express themselves, for many reasons, which is often the case.

I hate posting such deep personal info like that but felt it warranted. Thanks but please don't feel too much compassion for me bc I never ever let's oils ever ever let that define me - it made me stronger. Without my experiences, I'd never be the wonderful mother I am today.

Enough of me & back to Michelle. :blowkiss:

 

[Thor]

On that we can agree....the "poor kids". I am glad you are seeing how much danger they are in. I don't agree though that there is a "disastrous relationship" between YS and Dale. That's just my impression. I could see maybe GP and BP and Dale as they call a spade a spade and don't kiss up to Dale...BUT I think YS has legitimate concerns about the children's welfare. That is just my take after seeing and reading this...

IMO - Again, if they really had legitimate concerns about their grandchildren then the media is not the place to address those concern the reasons for this should be clear to anyone. There is no child welfare professional out there who would think their media appearances speaks of anything else other then their frustration and grief.

No child advocate or family court would look favorably on the grandparents giving such matters for media consumption thus damaging their standing as interested parties in the welfare of these children.

The key to helping this kids, from the grandparents side here at least, is to try to insulate them as much as possible from the media circus, not to further involve them, then try to reconnect with Dale, if at all possible by now.

For the grandparents, jumping on the bandwagon of the "Dale Bashing Show", which is "now playing everywhere" pointlessly eliminates chances for them to establish that level of effective communication they would need to have with Dale in order to be a more useful presence in their grandchildren life.

In sum, hating Dale when they suspect him of having killed their own daughter is clearly humanly understandable and easily accomplished, caring for their grandchildren and do what is right for them is clearly something else here and the two cannot possibly go together.

 

[Jazzmaster]

I agree with Jersey girl. There's too much speculating and emotional attachment going on as I also posted earlier.

I don't think there is too much speculating. There are many unanswered questions that IMO Dale has not answered. I would say there are some who are passionate on here...I haven't seen any emotional attachments...That's JMO as an outsider.


katydid23, maybe dsjr does not want the twins to see michelle's family because he just doesn't want them to see each other? There are always multiple reasons something could be done- maybe even the most random, out of the blue, unlikely reason.

I would agree here if it weren't for the AGREEMENT Dale signed. Did he sign this under his own will and not under any duress? Did he not agree to "liberal" visitation? There is a some speculating in this post. IMO you can't have it both ways. We often try to connect the dots and that does involve some level of speculation just as this post has some to make a point. None of us EXCEPT Dale knows what really happened to Michelle...JMO so we are left trying to solve the unanswered parts of Michelle's disappearance

You can speculate that he doesn't want the twins to say anything. Maybe he just doesn't want them around michelle's family.

I agree that Dale doesn't want the twins to say anything.

Twenty some odd years ago my parents were divorced. My mom always got a long with my dad's family. As soon as the divorce went through she cut off all contact and a few months later we moved to the other side of the state. Why did she do it who knows? Spite maybe. Maybe she thought they would try to influence me against her. Maybe dsjr thinks this also that michelle's family will try to make the twins reject him. At any rate my grandmother eventually had to sue for visitation.

Again a lot of speculation in this scenario. It could be true but we have no way to know.

Things are rarely if ever as black and white as y'all are trying to make out.

Is dsjr a bad guy? Yeah probably.
I agree...One bad apple IMO

He's definitely not someone I would try to be friends with, but constantly bashing him, calling him names, and letting your emotions take over with no proof is getting old.

I haven't seen any name calling or highly emotional posts myself but I have enjoyed the variety of opinions. It helps us all weigh in on the multiple facets of the case

My responses in bold

 

[Jazzmaster]

I hate posting such deep personal info like that but felt it warranted. Thanks but please don't feel too much compassion for me bc I never ever let's oils ever ever let that define me - it made me stronger. Without my experiences, I'd never be the wonderful mother I am today.

Enough of me & back to Michelle. :blowkiss:

I am proud of you Jersey*Girl! You sound like a wonderful mother...I mean that with deepest respect.

 

[Jazzmaster]

IMO - Again, if they really had legitimate concerns about their grandchildren then the media is not the place to address those concern the reasons for this should be clear to anyone. There is no child welfare professional out there who would think their media appearances speaks of anything else other then their frustration and grief.

Well if the courts won't do anything and the SUSPECT won't listen to you and you were interviewed by the media and frustrated...I believe a LOT comes out. She's emotional and misses her daughter dearly. Clearly we should give her some grace as we all deserve...


No child advocate or family court would look favorably on the grandparents giving such matters for media consumption thus damaging their standing as interested parties in the welfare of these children.

YS is not before a court or judge. She is a concerned parent who misses her daughter and grandchildren. My son moved away and took our grandchildren and it's been nearly 6 months since we last saw the young ones. I know the pain she is feeling!


The key to helping this kids, from the grandparents side here at least, is to try to insulate them as much as possible from the media circus, not to further involve them, then try to reconnect with Dale, if at all possible by now.

How is there a media circus in the private residence of YS? They would be private visits? I'm not following the logic here. Please explain...He agreed to liberal visitation. Three times is not liberal when you look at 6 months!


For the grandparents, jumping on the bandwagon of the "Dale Bashing Show", which is "now playing everywhere" pointlessly eliminates chances for them to establish that level of effective communication they would need to have with Dale in order to be a more useful presence in their grandchildren life.

In sum, hating Dale when they suspect him of having killed their own daughter is clearly humanly understandable and easily accomplished, caring for their grandchildren and do what is right for them is clearly something else here and the two cannot possibly go together.

YS has not publicly stated she thinks Dale killed her daughter. Nor have I seen any hate from the parents IF you have a link that says otherwise please provide. IIRC YS hugged Dale at the courthouse. I honestly have never seen any hatred or anything remotely like that. She has been VERY diplomatic IMO. If I'm wrong please let me know...

My responses in bold

 

[Jazzmaster]

BBM

I don't think I am calling him names or letting my emotions take over, nor am I constantly bashing him. I am simply replying, with facts, and links, to posts that are saying he is a good guy, misunderstood, and is innocent.

This is a forum where we are allowed to do that. :what:

I agree with you. I find on this thread people are generally VERY respectful. It has been very two sided. IMO There are those like you say who keep saying Dale is a "good guy, misunderstood, and is innocent" and others who use links and facts to dispute some of these claims...I have seen this thread pretty even balanced if I'm being totally honest.

 

[nobodynoz]

Does anyone know...if Dale were arrested for Michelle's murder, what would happen with the twins--who would they go to? Would both sets of grandparents battle for custody, and would DS Sr.'s drug charge likely prevent him from winning custody? (Opinions are fine, but I was hoping someone who had a little legal expertise might weigh in.)

 

[Jazzmaster]

Does anyone know...if Dale were arrested for Michelle's murder, what would happen with the twins--who would they go to?

That's enough with the speculating...JK

Would both sets of grandparents battle for custody, and would DS Sr.'s drug charge likely prevent him from winning custody? (Opinions are fine, but I was hoping someone who had a little legal expertise might weigh in.)

I had this bookmarked:
http://grandparents.about.com/od/grandparentsrights/qt/Grandparent_Rights_in_Florida.htm

Based on my understanding of this it looks like the grandparents would have to go to court and let the courts decide. Sr would probably have the toughest time getting custody. BP and YS would most likely have some sort of joint custody? JMO

 

[Thor]

My responses in bold

Jazzmaster

Ok, let me try this one last time and to the degree the I can, more concise.

The question of the kids custody which you raised originally and to which I replied has little or nothing to do with the murder investigation as it stands now.

- Dale Smith is the custodial parent of his own biological children. A family court, having found Dale fit to be a parent, has ordered that to be so.

- Dale Smith is a free man and has not been charged with any crime.

I hope on this two last points there is no disagreement here, this is not my opinion or yours is a fact.

- For the grandparents to have a useful relationship with the grandchildren they need to have effective communication with the custodial parent, in this case Dale Smith.

- Whatever issues are there between Dale and his kids' grandparents they should work it out among themselves and away from the public and that would be best for the children.

- In so far that the grandparents give interviews to the media making allegations against Dale Smith, that is counterproductive to achieve that level of communication needed by the two parties in order to productively meet this kids' needs and wants.

- Whatever you, me or anyone else thinks about Dale, the Yankees, and the meaning of life, is immaterial to the circumstances described above. IMO

 

[telemag]

He did not 'take him away'. He allows his son to visit whenever he wants to. That is a big difference, imo.

Really and how do you know this. He lives over a 1000 miles away also.

 

[Jazzmaster]

Jazzmaster

Ok, let me try this one last time and to the degree the I can, more concise.

The question of the kids custody which you raised originally and to which I replied has little or nothing to do with the murder investigation as it stands now.

I didn't know it was declared a MURDER investigation. i thought it was still a missing person's case? I do agree though the investigation and custody are separate!


- Dale Smith is the custodial parent of his own biological children. A family court, having found Dale fit to be a parent, has ordered that to be so.

Yes you are correct but I DO NOT agree with the court's ruling. It is VERY difficult to prove abuse and thus the court IMO has improperly placed the children with a VERY dangerous person.

- Dale Smith is a free man and has not been charged with any crime.

I hope of this there is no disagreement here, this is not my opinion or yours is a fact.

No...I agree with you. I would add in the word "YET". He is free for now...but I do NOT think it will be for very long.


- For the grandparents to have a useful relationship with the grandchildren they need to have effective communication with the custodial parent, in this case Dale Smith.

I agree and I cannot comment on this as I have no idea what type of relationship Dale has with either of Michelle's parents. I can only provide my perception based on what I read and see.


- Whatever issues are there between Dale and his kids' grandparents they should work it out among themselves and away from the media and that would be best for the children.

On this agree 100%...see we ARE making progress

- In so far that the grandparents give interviews to the media making allegations against Dale Smith, that is counterproductive to achieve that level of communication needed by the two parties in order to productively meet this kids' needs and wants.

Can't say I disagree!

- Whatever you, me or anyone else thinks about Dale, the Yankees, and the meaning of life, is immaterial to the circumstances described above.

Wow! You have me agreeing with MOST of your post! Very well done and thought out Thor. I am thoroughly impressed and don't even have any sarcasm to add...You'd make a VERY good law student.

My responses in bold

 

[What'sThatClue]

Really and how do you know this. He lives over a 1000 miles away also.

I only read he lives out of state. Near end of article:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/c...issing-mom-michelle-parker-turns-2140924.html

Where did you see it's 1,000 miles away? TIA

 

[telemag]

I only read he lives out of state. Near end of article:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/c...issing-mom-michelle-parker-turns-2140924.html

Where did you see it's 1,000 miles away? TIA

Am I allowed to link a FB page? His Dad has one and it says where he lives. I found it thru Michelle's IIRC a while back.

 

[Thor]

My responses in bold

Can't say I disagree!

Can't disagree with your agreement (inferred by your willingness not to disagree) which I totally agree with!

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I only read he lives out of state. Near end of article:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/c...issing-mom-michelle-parker-turns-2140924.html

Where did you see it's 1,000 miles away? TIA

I don't know where Telemag got it but I know this as well by reading the Facebook pages & then researching. He bought a new truck and moved with his son to Pittsburgh. I think his nephew went with them. I don't think they moved there right away, I forget but I'm thinking a couple months later. I forget but I think I remember something about the Carolinas, maybe they stopped there first? Don't know but I do know we can't discuss it further bc he's not a suspect that we know of. They live in PA but that's as much as we can say. From everything that I've seen, "A" seems to be in good hands & his father is Facebook friends with almost all of Michelle's family, even before her disappearance...but Dale wasn't. There could be good intentions for making the move. Maybe he thought his son would be in danger staying near Dale? Idk but it would add up with what "A" told authorities... Again, this can easily be found but I'm pretty sure we can't discuss it further.

 

[What'sThatClue]

Am I allowed to link a FB page? His Dad has one and it says where he lives. I found it thru Michelle's IIRC a while back.

Iirc only the official Michelle Parker missing FB site can be linked. You could ask a mod tho.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Thor. & Jazz - you 2 just literally made me lol.

 

[telemag]

I don't know where Telemag got it but I know this as well by reading the Facebook pages & then researching. He bought a new truck and moved with his son to Pittsburgh. I think his nephew went with them. I don't think they moved there right away, I forget but I'm thinking a couple months later. I forget but I think I remember something about the Carolinas, maybe they stopped there first? Don't know but I do know we can't discuss it further bc he's not a suspect that we know of. They live in PA but that's as much as we can say. From everything that I've seen, "A" seems to be in good hands & his father is Facebook friends with almost all of Michelle's family, even before her disappearance...but Dale wasn't. There could be good intentions for making the move. Maybe he thought his son would be in danger staying near Dale? Idk but it would add up with what "A" told authorities... Again, this can easily be found but I'm pretty sure we can't discuss it further.

Yep that's it. Just do a FB search and he should come right up.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Telemag - pls don't link that page. It's a personal page of a man & others that aren't suspects. It's against the terms here.

 

[Jazzmaster]

Thor. & Jazz - you 2 just literally made me lol.

And who thought it was getting all stuffy up in here?...lol