FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #21

[Jazzmaster]

My frustration here is apparent and mostly mistaken for a willingness to defend Dale at all costs, where nothing could be further from the truth. What I and may be others get drawn to is statements like "Why did he lie to LE?" and then we can't find anything on the record that indicates that he actually lied to the police. I'm all for convicting Dale or anyone else involved in Michelle disappearance, but I need quite a bit more than what is known at this time for me to draw a real opinion one way or the other. As to where Michelle is I think that is the most important question and I wish I had the answer to it.

Again if not Dale then who? How can we possibly find Michelle if we have NO OTHER SUSPECT to focus on? She didn't just vanish from thin air...she was never seen nor heard from after arriving at Dale's...shouldn't we at the VERY least start there? Any good detective starts at the VERY beginning...what proof do we have that Michelle left Dale's under her own free will or alive? Other than the word from a dishonorably discharged Marine, convicted felon, woman abuser, who had threatened to kill the missing person and kidnap her kids....Other than his word we have nothing....How are we to believe anything Dale says especially when he refuses to back up his statements with a LDT?

 

[Spice]

BBM....

JMO, Dale Jr is the Prime Suspect and a previously convicted abuser, having served time in Military Prison. JMO, Michelle is the innocent party here and is guilty of nothing.

As always, JMO MOO

Thank you so much for saying this. Women who suffer abuse at the hands of their spouse are incorrectly viewed as disordered or at fault for "not leaving." Those that make that assumption do not understand the complex dynamics of abuse and domestic violence. If you understand the subject, it is not necessary to ponder a "diagnosis" of the victim in relation to why she is still in the situation. There are usually a plethora of reasons that women feel trapped. They could be terrified or financially dependent, or suffer from low self-esteem, or think they should "work it out for the kids." Michelle obviously had-had enough and left Dale. She left and with the support of her loving family, was doing all that she could to build her life and become self-sufficient. A lot of women are not blessed with all of those resources.

And it would be remiss not to repeat that women in abusive relationships are in the most danger when they LEAVE their abuser. Michelle had finally left Dale and was getting serious with another man and now she is gone.

Not a coincidence.

 

[Thor]

Why would Dale or anyone else remove the decals before departing the condo and thus ensuring that any available video footage or eyewitness statement would provide the police and possibly a jury with one key piece of evidence of guilt? If Dale was responsible, removing the decals at that particular location does not make sense IMO, what would make sense(in that scenario) would be the opposite, which is moving the H3 away from the condo in the same condition as when it had arrived and then removing the decals later when feasible.

 

[katydid23]

Why would Dale or anyone else remove the decals before departing the condo and thus ensuring that any available video footage or eyewitness statement would provide the police and possibly a jury with one key piece of evidence of guilt? If Dale was responsible, removing the decals at that particular location does not make sense IMO, what would make sense(in that scenario) would be the opposite, which is moving the H3 away from the condo in the same condition as when it had arrived and then removing the decals later when feasible.

In his stressed way of thinking at that time, it might have made sense to take off the sticker. He would not want to be noticed driving the car to the dump site. So taking off the HUGE Glow stickers would make sense as it would not attract as much attention. And it would be harder to differentiate between it and the other similar ones in the area.

 

[GrammaMaybe]

My frustration here is apparent and mostly mistaken for a willingness to defend Dale at all costs, where nothing could be further from the truth. What I and may be others get drawn to is statements like "Why did he lie to LE?" and then we can't find anything on the record that indicates that he actually lied to the police. I'm all for convicting Dale or anyone else involved in Michelle disappearance, but I need quite a bit more than what is known at this time for me to draw a real opinion one way or the other. As to where Michelle is I think that is the most important question and I wish I had the answer to it.

IMHO people believe you just want to defend Dale because you haven't offered any thoughts other than why you think others are wrong to hold the opinion that he is.

For example, you haven't given any answers about where you would search. Why not?

 

[Spice]

As far as the car filmed leaving Dale's house with or without the Glow Stickers:

Wasn't there footage of her Hummer leaving Dale's with/without (not sure which) the stickers that surfaced very early in the investigation and then the footage was pulled without explanation or word? It appeared and then went POOF. I always thought LE was behind that and wanted to withhold something about that particular evidentiary footage from the public to protect their investigation.

Can anyone refresh my memory? If I remember correctly, that footage would have been particularly useful in showing major guilt on Dale's part. Not that there isn't enough of that out there already.

 

[Thor]

In his stressed way of thinking at that time, it might have made sense to take off the sticker. He would not want to be noticed driving the car to the dump site. So taking off the HUGE Glow stickers would make sense as it would not attract as much attention. And it would be harder to differentiate between it and the other similar ones in the area.

If I understand this correctly, I think you implied that you agree with the idea that it doesn't make sense for Dale to remove the decals at the condo as opposite to somewhere else, but that it can be explained by Dale being stressed, and for what I know that might very well be what happened, however I go back to my original point, a narration, a theory, whatever IMO must follow a logical flow absent evidences to the contrary, Dale can't be gripped by fears to the point of making such obvious mistakes and at the same time being so methodical a cool headed to hide his tracks so well, not in my mind at least, that is why I suspect that whatever happened to Michelle happened after she left the condo. IMO

 

[Jazzmaster]

If I understand this correctly, I think you implied that you agree with the idea that it doesn't make sense for Dale to remove the decals at the condo as opposite to somewhere else, but that it can be explained by Dale being stressed, and for what I know that might very well be what happened, however I go back to my original point, a narration, a theory, whatever IMO must follow a logical flow absent evidences to the contrary, Dale can't be gripped by fears to the point of making such obvious mistakes and at the same time being so methodical a cool headed to hide his tracks so well, not in my mind at least, that is why I suspect that whatever happened to Michelle happened after she left the condo. IMO

I agree Thor...I believe this was well planned and Michelle was taken alive by Dale and/or an accomplice. Who do you think would have helped him? Family or close friend? Knowing what we know about Dale who would he trust most with his plan? Or would he fly Han Solo?

 

[TorisMom003]

How exactly has Dale been so methodical and cool headed to cover up his tracks? Alot of times things just happen with no thought about how to get away with it by the perp. I would say that Dale has been lucky so far and less cool headed.

MOO

 

[katydid23]

If I understand this correctly, I think you implied that you agree with the idea that it doesn't make sense for Dale to remove the decals at the condo as opposite to somewhere else, but that it can be explained by Dale being stressed, and for what I know that might very well be what happened, however I go back to my original point, a narration, a theory, whatever IMO must follow a logical flow absent evidences to the contrary, Dale can't be gripped by fears to the point of making such obvious mistakes and at the same time being so methodical a cool headed to hide his tracks so well, not in my mind at least, that is why I suspect that whatever happened to Michelle happened after she left the condo.

No, that is not what I was saying, --it was not that he was stressed and so that is why he removed them.

I said he removed them because he did not want to attract attention when he drove it to the dump site.

Also, he wanted it to look like the other two black Hummers in the condo complex. And that worked apparently, because we are still having confusion about them.

I did use the word 'stressed' because obviously, if he had just harmed his ex, he would be feeling some stress. You keep trying to make it an either /or, black or white situation. Like he is either stressed and out of his mind OR he is cool, calm and collected. Imo, he is a mixture. He is thinking clearly, and in a cunning manner, but somewhat stressed by the obviously dangerous situation.

 

[TorisMom003]

I agree Thor...I believe this was well planned and Michelle was taken alive by Dale and/or an accomplice. Who do you think would have helped him? Family or close friend? Knowing what we know about Dale who would he trust most with his plan? Or would be fly Han Solo?

IMO, daddy dearest fits the bill.

 

[Thor]

I agree Thor...I believe this was well planned and Michelle was taken alive by Dale and/or an acx

Jazzmaster, you and me have been here before and that's ok because I believe in spirited debates but I don't see a premeditation to kill on that day, at that time and under those circumstances to be likely although I can be wrong as I have been many times before in my life.

 

[TorisMom003]

Domestic violence rarely, if ever, really makes sense. There are any number of reasons why Dale could have decided that Michelle had to go at that time on that day. Some of the more familiar reasons usually seem to be 1. NOT going to pay that b!tch child support, 2. If I can't have her/him then NO ONE will, 3. Think you can leave me and get away with it? Think again!!.

MOO

 

[Jazzmaster]

Jazzmaster, you and me have been here before and that's ok because I believe in spirited debates but I don't see a premeditation to kill on that day, at that time and under those circumstances to be likely although I can be wrong as I have been many times before in my life.

So how does this happen with no plan AND Dale being involved and no physical evidence left behind?

Let's for the moment rule out anyone other than Dale commiting this crime....Do you think it's at least possible for him to cover this up alone? If so how? If not alone then how does he get help? I am not 100% on premeditation but it certainly looks that way to me...

 

[Thor]

No, that is not what I was saying, --it was not that he was stressed and so that is why he removed them.

I said he removed them because he did not want to attract attention when he drove it to the dump site.

Also, he wanted it to look like the other two black Hummers in the condo complex. And that worked apparently, because we are still having confusion about them.

I did use the word 'stressed' because obviously, if he had just harmed his ex, he would be feeling some stress. You keep trying to make it an either /or, black or white situation. Like he is either stressed and out of his mind OR he is cool, calm and collected. Imo, he is a mixture. He is thinking clearly, and in a cunning manner, but somewhat stressed by the obviously dangerous situation.

Ok then I assumed wrong and you believe it might be reasonable for Dale to remove the decals at the condo, If that is the case I guess I will agree to disagree.

 

[TorisMom003]

The decals that Michelle had on the Hummer are unique. If someone sees them they are likely to remember them. They also identify the Hummer as hers with just a quick glance. I would expect Dale to remove them in the comfort of his garage where he had the privacy to do so without eyes on him. He would be able to take his time while doing so and also ensure that when he drove Michelle's Hummer afterwards that it would be much less identifiable to anyone that may have seen him in the driver's seat.

 

[TorisMom003]

Do we know if Michelle's Hummer had a cloth spare tire cover or a hard cover? Not that it really matters as both would be easy to store in the back of the hummer and just as easy to replace while parked somewhere.

 

[Thor]

So how does this happen with no plan AND Dale being involved and no physical evidence left behind?

Let's for the moment rule out anyone other than Dale commiting this crime....Do you think it's at least possible for him to cover this up alone? If so how? If not alone then how does he get help? I am not 100% on premeditation but it certainly looks that way to me...

I think there is plenty of unaccounted time for Dale's whereabouts at the time of Michelle disappearance where one can theorize opportunity. His absence from the scene in the crucial time of her disappearance bothers me quite a bit, especially his leaving the kids with the grandparents, (to go where? To do what?) and that keeps rolling in my mind constantly, however the frustration with me is finding the missing pieces that only evidence can provide. In sum, for me the real riddle is where is Michelle and where is Dale anytime after 3:40 pm?

 

[GrammaMaybe]

Thor asked Jazzmaster to respond to a post from Bern asserting that the facts of this case were "too crazy" for Dale to have planned to remove Michelle from his life. I think this response to that request applies to the idea that it is "too crazy" for Dale to have removed the Glow decals from the Hummer at his condo.

SPOILER ALERT: I believe Dale is guilty, which we all agree is my opinion only.

Before I retired from the therapy business, I worked with mandated clients that included convicted murderers, confessed murderers and abusers who were pulled off their victims before they succeeded in murdering them. A number of them would use Bern's logic to prove that Dale was "crazy like a fox!"

"It worked on Bern," they might say. "Bern's convinced Dale didn't do it because 'it's too crazy'!"

One thing I learned from my clients is when I assume others think like I do--I AM DEAD WRONG. That fantasy seems universal. Our internal thought life seems logical to us, so it's easy to believe others have the same internal process. Every time we say to ourselves "what were they thinking?" or "how on earth did they come to that conclusion?" we are proving the point. We expect others to think like we do and THEY DON'T! Unless you are physical abuser who has been thrown out of the Marines, likes to play dress up and think expecting court-ordered child support is theft you haven't a clue how Dale would think. By you I mean anyone, not just Bern, but me, Nobody, Jazz, Thor, the moderator, Dale's attorney or the Pope.

 

[Jazzmaster]

I think there is plenty of unaccounted time for Dale's whereabouts at the time of Michelle disappearance where one can theorize opportunity. His absence from the scene in the crucial time of her disappearance bothers me quite a bit, especially his leaving the kids with the grandparents, (to go where? To do what?) and that keeps rolling in my mind constantly, however the frustration with me is finding the missing pieces that only evidence can provide. In sum, for me the real riddle is where is Michelle and where is Dale anytime after 3:40 pm?

So does he have an accomplice or not? It opens up MANY more possibilities to Michelle's wherabouts if he has one and IMO limits them if he is flying Han Solo...