FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #23

[rachaellouise]

Ugh. Have people learned NOTHING from Josh and Susan Powell?! If someone is even suspected of being involved in a spouses murder, they should not have the kids.

 

[captdj]

Yes Dale owned a F150 at the time: http://touch.orlandosentinel.com/#section/-1/gallery/p2p-66391611/

Additionally Michelle's Hummer was 4 wheel drive. Dale got the vehicle back but it was repossessed IMO. He doesn't seem to be able to pay for anything or keep any financial commitments. If you recall he was a dead beat dad that FAILED to pay child support on several occasions. Michelle had to take Dale to court and when she finally got support being deducted from his paycheck via a court order THEN she goes MISSING....Jazz smells a rat!

So many things point that way....he got lucky...let's hope his luck will run out and karma catches up with him..... But having four wheel drive open up more places he could have taken Michelle...

 

[captdj]

UNFORTUNATELY....Dale who I believe murdered Michelle has custody of the twinners. Not only that....he refuse to allow the grandparents or anyone in Michelle's family to see the children . Talk about a !!!!! Jmo

He should only have shared rights her Michelle parent ...

There is something really wrong when these decent grandparents can not see their deceased daughters children....who was murdered.

It seem that being named a prime suspect would weigh on who should be watching the children.....

 

[Thor]

He should only have shared rights her Michelle parent ...

There is something really wrong when these decent grandparents can not see their deceased daughters children....who was murdered.

It seem that being named a prime suspect would weigh on who should be watching the children.....

As a divorced parent and more, I can tell you first hand that visitations are a shared responsibility and mature adults that find themselves in that predicament need not to be reminded of that very fact, while others always find a reason why the whole thing is somebody's else fault but their own, and I'm about to litigate a similar point in an actual court myself up-close and personal together with a lot of other issues that unfortunately are becoming the norm rather then the exception in custodial related litigation. Visitations are difficult under the very best of circumstances, it requires people that usually have profound disagreements to come together, take responsibility for their own actions, set aside accusations, finger pointing, and such and simply get along, and that is not because that is necessarily what they'd want for themselves, not even because it's the right thing to do, but because that is what's required to make such arrangements work for the benefit of the children that get caught between the warring factions.

" ... It seem that being named a prime suspect would weigh on who should be watching the children....."

It's not even remotely legal to question custodial rights by mere accusations, and that is because we live in a society where, at least within a legal context, one actually need to prove a point not simply allege it, (not that one would necessarily know any of it but simply reading this thread) that is what finally separated all of us from those pitchforks and torches that came by the cover of night and I'm sure you knew that already after all.

I still find that continuously making those kids, either directly or indirectly, instrumental to personal attacks against their own father rather unfortunate.

JMO

 

[Jazzmaster]

Ugh. Have people learned NOTHING from Josh and Susan Powell?! If someone is even suspected of being involved in a spouses murder, they should not have the kids.

Well the sad part of this case is Dale sr did learn a LOT about the Powell case. Call it a coincidence or premeditation but sr was following the Powell case and made a comment that appeared on his FB on how Josh was able to get away with murder while he had the children in his custody. Once we mentioned it on WS his FB account SUDDENLY was deleted. I guess he didn't want to leave behind an electronic trail. Good thing for screen captures!!! It has helped me with all of Dale's social media (forums and FB etc)....

 

[Jazzmaster]

So many things point that way....he got lucky...let's hope his luck will run out and karma catches up with him..... But having four wheel drive open up more places he could have taken Michelle...

I am not quite sure I would call it LUCK. When Dale had as much time and control as he did on 11-17-11 all he had to do was make sure he didn't leave behind DNA or witnesses. As most of the activity probably took place at his condo and/or the Smith Compound on rose blvd IMO it was quite easy to make Michelle disappear. Without PROOF of death and no eye witnesses willing to come forward....all the circumstantial evidence in the world makes it a tough case to try in the court system. I STILL have FAITH Dale will get what he has coming but until then the search for Shelly continues... Where are you Michelle? What has Dale done with you? NGU!!!!

 

[Jazzmaster]

As a divorced parent and more, I can tell you first hand that visitations are a shared responsibility and mature adults that find themselves in that predicament need not to be reminded of that very fact, while others always find a reason why the whole thing is somebody's else fault but their own, and I'm about to litigate a similar point in an actual court myself up-close and personal together with a lot of other issues that unfortunately are becoming the norm rather then the exception in custodial related litigation. Visitations are difficult under the very best of circumstances, it requires people that usually have profound disagreements to come together, take responsibility for their own actions, set aside accusations, finger pointing, and such and simply get along, and that is not because that is necessarily what they'd want for themselves, not even because it's the right thing to do, but because that is what's required to make such arrangements work for the benefit of the children that get caught between the warring factions.

" ... It seem that being named a prime suspect would weigh on who should be watching the children....."

It's not even remotely legal to question custodial rights by mere accusations, and that is because we live in a society where, at least within a legal context, one actually need to prove a point not simply allege it, (not that one would necessarily know any of it but simply reading this thread) that is what finally separated all of us from those pitchforks and torches that came by the cover of night and I'm sure you knew that already after all.

I still find that continuously making those kids, either directly or indirectly, instrumental to personal attacks against their own father rather unfortunate.

JMO

Well some day the twinners will question what Daddy did to Mommy....why Daddy never talks about Mommy....and why Daddy kept them from their brother A and the rest of Michelle's family. No explanation in the world will help those children understand what a monster is raising them.

I am sorry but I COMPLETELY disagree with you on custody. If you are the PRIME suspect in the disappearance of someone who had custody of children and there was evidence of disagreements (court records of failure to pay child support, violence, restraining orders, etc etc) then there should be an injunction of some sort issued to protect the children and prevent a SUSPECT from gaining custody. There are many cases where the SUSPECT was not allowed custody because of the mysterious disappearance of a spouse. Michelle's case is one where the justice system failed IMO. Michelle's family should have custody. BP, GP, and YS should all have custody arrangements and Dale should only be allowed supervised visits until he cooperates enough to get the PRIME suspect status lifted. all jmo

 

[Thor]

Well some day the twinners will question what Daddy did to Mommy....why Daddy never talks about Mommy....and why Daddy kept them from their brother A and the rest of Michelle's family. No explanation in the world will help those children understand what a monster is raising them.

I am sorry but I COMPLETELY disagree with you on custody. If you are the PRIME suspect in the disappearance of someone who had custody of children and there was evidence of disagreements (court records of failure to pay child support, violence, restraining orders, etc etc) then there should be an injunction of some sort issued to protect the children and prevent a SUSPECT from gaining custody. There are many cases where the SUSPECT was not allowed custody because of the mysterious disappearance of a spouse. Michelle's case is one where the justice system failed IMO. Michelle's family should have custody. BP, GP, and YS should all have custody arrangements and Dale should only be allowed supervised visits until he cooperates enough to get the PRIME suspect status lifted. all jmo

"... There are many cases where the SUSPECT was not allowed custody because of the mysterious disappearance of a spouse ..."

Please name one such case.

 

[Jazzmaster]

"... There are many cases where the SUSPECT was not allowed custody because of the mysterious disappearance of a spouse ..."

Please name one such case.

Very similar case. Wife goes missing....husband suspected of murder....and judge does right thing granted custody to deceased's sister:

http://www.abcnews4.com/story/18067...s-no-evidence-in-homicide-case-against-client

Notice "protective custody"....

I wish our great state of FL was as "protective" as SC. Glad YS is fighting for grandparent's rights!!!

 

[Thor]

Very similar case. Wife goes missing....husband suspected of murder....and judge does right thing granted custody to deceased's sister:

http://www.abcnews4.com/story/18067...s-no-evidence-in-homicide-case-against-client

Notice "protective custody"....

I wish our great state of FL was as "protective" as SC. Glad YS is fighting for grandparent's rights!!!

I took a quick look at the article but information are sketchy and there's no indication as to all of the particulars of why this father lost custody of his children, if the custodial determination is temporary and/or protective, if an appeal has been filed and so on.

Still again, as a general rule, mere accusations are not disqualifier for custody, and that was my point solely as a matter of law, not as to cover any anecdotal case, particularly here about a judge whose order rests on particulars I have no knowledge of, therefore I have to assume here for the moment, that there were other issues at play in this decision.

In any case, this kind of stuff interest me, so I'm going to research this case to extent that information are available in the public record and make a further comment when I have all enough of the pertinent issues here squared away.

 

[Jazzmaster]

I took a quick look at the article but information are sketchy and there's no indication as to all of the particulars of why this father lost custody of his children, if the custodial determination is temporary and/or protective, if an appeal has been filed and so on.

Still again, as a general rule, mere accusations are not disqualifier for custody, and that was my point solely as a matter of law, not as to cover any anecdotal case, particularly here about a judge whose order rests on particulars I have no knowledge of, therefore I have to assume here for the moment, that there were other issues at play in this decision.

In any case, this kind of stuff interest me, so I'm going to research this case to extent that information are available in the public record and make a further comment when I have all enough of the pertinent issues here squared away.

Well I guess that is where we disagree....IMO if someone has been labeled by LE as a prime suspect this means this person is the ONE person LE officers believe most probably committed the crime being investigated. IF LE is willing to go on public record and declare a PRIME suspect and there are minor children involved I believe such suspicions should temporarily disqualify the suspect from custody of minor children until either a) suspect is ruled out or b) case is solved absolving the suspect of any wrong doing. It is detrimental to the children's well being and safety to be in the custody of a suspected killer. Look how it turned out with Josh Powell. Dale has murdered IMO and could do it again!

 

[Thor]

Well some day the twinners will question what Daddy did to Mommy....why Daddy never talks about Mommy....and why Daddy kept them from their brother A and the rest of Michelle's family. No explanation in the world will help those children understand what a monster is raising them.

I am sorry but I COMPLETELY disagree with you on custody. If you are the PRIME suspect in the disappearance of someone who had custody of children and there was evidence of disagreements (court records of failure to pay child support, violence, restraining orders, etc etc) then there should be an injunction of some sort issued to protect the children and prevent a SUSPECT from gaining custody. There are many cases where the SUSPECT was not allowed custody because of the mysterious disappearance of a spouse. Michelle's case is one where the justice system failed IMO. Michelle's family should have custody. BP, GP, and YS should all have custody arrangements and Dale should only be allowed supervised visits until he cooperates enough to get the PRIME suspect status lifted. all jmo

I still find that continuously involving those kids in the context of personal attacks is unfortunate and what makes it sad on top of it all, it's that it doesn't provide any help in finding Michelle, doesn't change any judge's order, doesn't change any facts on the ground, it solely makes a tragedy more so, and spreads even more of that misery a bit further and a bit wider then just moments before.

JMO?

 

[Jazzmaster]

I still find that continuously involving those kids in the context of personal attacks is unfortunate and what makes it sad on top of it all, it's that it doesn't provide any help in finding Michelle, doesn't change any judge's order, doesn't change any facts on the ground, it solely makes a tragedy more so, and spreads even more of that misery a bit further and a bit wider then just moments before.

JMO?

I respect your opinion on the matter but completely disagree...just because a judge ordered something doesn't mean it is the right decision or justice was served. IMO Dale is harming those children mentally, based on his temper maybe even physically (who knows)....but keeping them from Michelle's family certainly must be harming them emotionally. The sooner we find Michelle the sooner we can prosecute Dale and I am sorry but the thought of reuniting the twinners with Michelle's family is part of what keeps me going! Finding Michelle is definitely top priority but a good old family reunion is certainty up at the top of my list! All JMO

 

[Thor]

I respect your opinion on the matter but completely disagree...just because a judge ordered something doesn't mean it is the right decision or justice was served. IMO Dale is harming those children mentally, based on his temper maybe even physically (who knows)....but keeping them from Michelle's family certainly must be harming them emotionally. The sooner we find Michelle the sooner we can prosecute Dale and I am sorry but the thought of reuniting the twinners with Michelle's family is part of what keeps me going! Finding Michelle is definitely top priority but a good old family reunion is certainty up at the top of my list! All JMO

To close this issue (where I'm concerned), I wasn't referring to the merits of the custodial order, nor am I going to involve myself in yet another DS discussion especially where it continues to involve name calling, and where I have nothing to offer but repetitions of what I've said before in response to repetitions of what I've heard before. I now live in a DS-free zone until and if evidence are actually presented and/or charges are filed. And as I've said there's plenty to discuss and act upon having to do with finding Michelle that would be more productive then constantly obsessing about a particular suspect, the particulars of which I've posted on more then one occasion.

What I was referring to was as of below:

" ... continuously involving those kids in the context of personal attacks is unfortunate ...."

" ... it doesn't provide any help in finding Michelle, doesn't change any judge's order, doesn't change any facts on the ground, it solely makes a tragedy more so, and spreads even more of that misery a bit further and a bit wider then just moments before"

I stand by those comments where those children are made the issue and nothing more then that.

JMO

 

[Jazzmaster]

To close this issue (where I'm concerned), I wasn't referring to the merits of the custodial order, nor am I going to involve myself in yet another DS discussion especially where it continues to involve name calling, and where I have nothing to offer but repetitions of what I've said before in response to repetitions of what I've heard before. I now live in a DS-free zone until and if evidence are actually presented and/or charges are filed. And as I've said there's plenty to discuss and act upon having to do with finding Michelle that would be more productive then constantly obsessing about a particular suspect, the particulars of which I've posted on more then one occasion.

What I was referring to was as of below:

" ... continuously involving those kids in the context of personal attacks is unfortunate ...."

" ... it doesn't provide any help in finding Michelle, doesn't change any judge's order, doesn't change any facts on the ground, it solely makes a tragedy more so, and spreads even more of that misery a bit further and a bit wider then just moments before"

I stand by those comments where those children are made the issue and nothing more then that.

Ok I guess we agree to disagree. When you have a guy with such little character like Dale....a guy who sets up a fake FB account to call his ex-fiancé a hooker and do it to get revenge on Michelle's step-mom GP shows his true colors! All while Michelle's family was and still is in such pain because they cannot see their grandchildren and cannot find Michelle. Name calling is a lot more favorable than what Dale deserves. Let him eventually get the punishment he deserves (in this lifetime and in eternity)... All JMO

 

[Thor]

Ok I guess we agree to disagree. When you have a guy with such little character like Dale....a guy who sets up a fake FB account to call his ex-fiancé a hooker and do it to get revenge on Michelle's step-mom GP shows his true colors! All while Michelle's family was and still is in such pain because they cannot see their grandchildren and cannot find Michelle. Name calling is a lot more favorable than what Dale deserves. Let him eventually get the punishment he deserves (in this lifetime and in eternity)... All JMO

This cannot be and it is not about the pain of the grown ups where those children are concerned, this has to be about the children and the children alone.

One would hope that those "grown ups" would work to take the tragedy out of their life to the extent that anyone can, not to compound on it constantly ... relentlessly, children need stability, love, attention, reassurances not constant fighting, controversy, personal attacks, hate, and resentment because none of them can be construed to exist on behalf of those children, but only on behalf of the adults despite those children.

JMO

 

[Jazzmaster]

This cannot be and it is not about the pain of the grown ups where those children are concerned, this has to be about the children and the children alone.

One would hope that those "grown ups" would work to take the tragedy out of their life to the extent that anyone can, not to compound on it constantly ... relentlessly, children need stability, love, attention, reassurances not constant fighting, controversy, personal attacks, hate, and resentment because none of them can be construed to exist on behalf of those children, but only on behalf of the adults despite those children.

JMO

Well if the children need "stability, love, attention, and reassurance" they sure WON'T get that with the Smiths....that is for SURE! When you look up dysfunctional in the dictionary you will see the NAKED cowboy I mean Dale Smith and his hooligan family as the poster children for instability, lack of love and respect, lack of boundaries, poor character, inability to commit, no regard for the law or the value of human life....not the environment to raise young children. All JMO

 

[Jazzmaster]

Here is as Sr growing and rolling doobies:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/09/michelle-parker-missing-_n_1193987.html

Here is Jr getting into dubious troubles:
1) Case 1990-CF-001851-A-O, SMITH, DALE WAYNE II, DOB 06/28/1971 Charge Date 02/20/1990 Circuit Criminal Divisions – Felony Criminal Felony
Closed BURGLARY

2). Case 1990-MM-004768-A-O, SMITH, DALE WAYNE, DOB 06/28/1971 Charge Date 03/26/1990 Orlando Adams, Martha C Misdemeanor
Closed TRESPASS SCHOOL GROUNDS REFUSE TO LEAVE

3). Case 1992-MM-003836-A-O, SMITH, DALE WAYNE, II DOB 06/28/1971 Charge Date 03/18/1992 Orlando Allen, Faye L Misdemeanor
Closed CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE OFFENSE

4). Case 1992-CF-006085-B-O, SMITH, DALE WAYNE DOB 06/28/1971 Charge Date 06/30/1992 Div 16 Schreiber, Margaret H Criminal Felony
Closed AGGRAVATED BATTERY

5). Case 1996-CF-013903-A-O, SMITH, DALE WAYNE DOB 06/28/1971 11/15/1996
Div 16 Schreiber, Margaret H Criminal Felony
Closed BATTERY

I fear for the twinners well being with those two having influence! JMO

 

[Thor]

Well if the children need "stability, love, attention, and reassurance" they sure WON'T get that with the Smiths....that is for SURE! When you look up dysfunctional in the dictionary you will see the NAKED cowboy I mean Dale Smith and his hooligan family as the poster children for instability, lack of love and respect, lack of boundaries, poor character, inability to commit, no regard for the law or the value of human life....not the environment to raise young children. All JMO

Great! Name calling, accusations, ridiculing (complete with NAKED references), belittling and more, and that is the strategy for this two families to come together and those kids to benefit from it ... because that has worked so well so far (almost 2 years and counting) ... oh I forgot ... tomorrow or the next day ... surely soon enough .... it'll be different, DS will be proven a bad father, a murderer, a monster ... and the rest of his family as well ... father, mother, distant cousins, estranged family members and whatever cats or dogs might be part of that family, because it's universally accepted that when you need somebody to work out visitations of minors with you then the best approach is to demonize them and insult them, the best way to change facts on the grounds is to blame the other side, because that is what is proven universally to work ... or is the aim something else altogether not really having anything to do with welfare of those kids?

I feel sorry for everyone involved in this tragedy, especially those kids, and I don't know if DS is responsible for Michelle's disappearance or not, and if he is I hope he's called to account for it, however I totally understand him moving to another state to get his family away from all this deep seeded hate and resentment, I would have done the very same thing only a lot sooner then when he actually did. Hopefully those kids are not exposed to any of these, unfortunately I'm not sure that is the case, at least not entirely.

JMO

 

[Thor]

Where those children are concerned, both families must at some point, sooner rather then later, set aside their own feelings for the benefit of those children. I know it's not easy, it never is, I know these are extraordinary circumstances, but that doesn't change the underling problem that these kids need both their father, their maternal and paternal grandparents and otherwise anyone who loves them and could pay attention to them and there's no way to achieve that with confrontations, name calling, resentment and hate.

As time goes by so is the worsening of the estrangement of those kids to their maternal grandparents and the rest of that family that loved them and cared for them as well, it's downright unconscionable that a real world effort is not taking place to at least try to repair whatever damage has been done already. Nothing is behind repair here, nothing here cannot be mended if and when those kids become the one and only concern for both sides, and that cannot include constant fighting and accusations and I'm at a loss that it needs saying.

If the concern is here for those children then how does it help them when one family doesn't see them or otherwise know what their life is intimately speaking, wouldn't it make much better sense, if the concern is here for those children, to be a part of their life even it meant to accept situations and people you don't agree with or not like or even hate? How does it help being on the outside looking in if the concern is for those children? How does it help not being able to know about them or care for them so that one can prove a point theoretically but not factually, wouldn't be better to try being a part of their lives even as a lesser of two evils or is it better to not be a part of their lives at all because one needs to be right at all costs?

The police will either criminally charge Ds or not, and that has everything to do with evidence or lack thereof, not with theories, personal feelings and convictions, at least not after two years, which means that the families have an opportunity to do something constructive as opposite to destructive, and if the process start with accusations, resentment, hate and ridicule then nothing will happen other then one party talking to an echo chamber made up of like minded people and no one else while continuing of being tone deaf to realities and facts on the ground that cannot be possibly be reconciled with their own views.

So stop the vitriol as a way to feel good about that which can never feel good, and start the hard part of truly caring for those kids who are very much alive and who need real love not hate. It's not easy, but if it was it would have been done already.

JMO