FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #24

[Jazzmaster]

I am guessing that the Hummer was not at the condo long as it is very visible yet no-one seems to report it being there any longer than it should.

I doubt anyone would carry the phone on them to monitor anything. The goal is to assume people are coming and get rid of any evidence as quietly and quickly as possible. Also, to get it away from your own home or anything that could tie it to you.

I believe that the phone was destroyed to delay any search and to possibly hide any fingerprints that couldn't be wiped. I would wonder if someone would know that the cell phone would ping when the phone was manually shut off.

It seems that a parking lot in a little used park or the garage of an empty house would be the best place to stash the Hummer and anything else between 4:30 pm and later when it got dark.

I really wish I knew when / where the family finally talked to Dale.

Well the phone wasn't actually destroyed and left in a condition where DATA could be extracted....Whoever had the phone sent a text to delay suspicions so it was used for monitoring at least BRIEFLY....Now this leads to a couple of key questions: WHERE was the phone to begin with? In Shelly's vehicle, on her while arriving (in a purse, coat, pocket etc) and WHEN was it found? Before, during or sometime after the crime began? The phone is key evidence and it was either an afterthought or strategically used IMO. I believe the latter. The phone IMO was central to "smoke and mirrors". You couldn't have it pinging at Dale's condo or Rose blvd or it would have incriminated Jr and Sr IMMEDIATELY. If used strategically you take it in the opposite direction of where you are hiding evidence IMO. Dale thinks he is CLEVER so I bet he was the one with the phone. Sr with his wonky eyes IMO is good at looking up how to get away with a murder but not so good at texting....ALL JMO

 

[Skully]

I think Michelle's mom and family have done such a great job in working to find Michelle. They have worked behind the scenes and are fighting for new laws that change the way the law views Grandparents and their rights. I think they are fighting the good fight. But they are up against a controlling and angry man. I am referring to Sr. I think he is the person who rules that house. Jr. moved away, and I think it was for more than one reason. I think he needed distance from Sr. Yes they worked together, but Sr will always have that over him. Do you think grandma is happy that Sr took off with the Grandbabies? I think grandma is also controlled by Sr. I think she fears what would come of her is she ever dared to talk about that day.

I also think LE has hit a dead end, and they need someone to come forward and that person is Grandma. I read where a family sent a picture and a letter every single day to a man in prison; asking him what happened to their daughter and where she was. It broke him. I don't think it would work on Sr or Jr. but Grandma could be a person who over time, may give a bit.

 

[What'sThatClue]

I think Michelle's mom and family have done such a great job in working to find Michelle. They have worked behind the scenes and are fighting for new laws that change the way the law views Grandparents and their rights. I think they are fighting the good fight. But they are up against a controlling and angry man. I am referring to Sr. I think he is the person who rules that house. Jr. moved away, and I think it was for more than one reason. I think he needed distance from Sr. Yes they worked together, but Sr will always have that over him. Do you think grandma is happy that Sr took off with the Grandbabies? I think grandma is also controlled by Sr. I think she fears what would come of her is she ever dared to talk about that day.

I also think LE has hit a dead end, and they need someone to come forward and that person is Grandma. I read where a family sent a picture and a letter every single day to a man in prison; asking him what happened to their daughter and where she was. It broke him. I don't think it would work on Sr or Jr. but Grandma could be a person who over time, may give a bit.

You may be right. And, thinking of the Yessenia Suarez case, her parents have been trying the same tactics on her murderer. Hasn't worked yet but I pray they break him.

I also think that Grandma is the key in Michelle's disappearance. I think there was no mistake in having Michelle's mom make a plea to her during the news conference. LE had to have approved that. Indeed, it might have been their idea.

JMO

 

[captdj]

Well the phone wasn't actually destroyed and left in a condition where DATA could be extracted....Whoever had the phone sent a text to delay suspicions so it was used for monitoring at least BRIEFLY....Now this leads to a couple of key questions: WHERE was the phone to begin with? In Shelly's vehicle, on her while arriving (in a purse, coat, pocket etc) and WHEN was it found? Before, during or sometime after the crime began? The phone is key evidence and it was either an afterthought or strategically used IMO. I believe the latter. The phone IMO was central to "smoke and mirrors". You couldn't have it pinging at Dale's condo or Rose blvd or it would have incriminated Jr and Sr IMMEDIATELY. If used strategically you take it in the opposite direction of where you are hiding evidence IMO. Dale thinks he is CLEVER so I bet he was the one with the phone. Sr with his wonky eyes IMO is good at looking up how to get away with a murder but not so good at texting....ALL JMO

I so hoped the phone would lead us to the perp...

ok the phone had to be one or several of these places

On Michelle
In Hummer
On the perp

Her purse was found in the hummer we know....some people keep phones in their purse and then some keep them on them in their pockets.....

She had to take the kids into the condo and she used her phone to sent text to NM right before entering the condo complex.

Did she put the phone back in her purse in the Hummer...or carry it in....maybe her parents would know his habits about how she used the phone and her purse.

But we know about 60 minutes after arriving at Dale's .... Michelle and her phone was are not where they should be...


To me it was not a smart move to text and toss it ....during the same time and path and direction of Dale jr going to his parents.


Since the purse held no leads....it may mean Michelle did NOT put it back into her purse...

MOO Most likely then she carried it into the condo and the phone never re-entered the hummer.

 

[captdj]

You may be right. And, thinking of the Yessenia Suarez case, her parents have been trying the same tactics on her murderer. Hasn't worked yet but I pray they break him.

I also think that Grandma is the key in Michelle's disappearance. I think there was no mistake in having Michelle's mom make a plea to her during the news conference. LE had to have approved that. Indeed, it might have been their idea.

JMO

remembering Dale Sr boastering comment when Little Dale spun out in the crowded courthouse parking lot.

just hoping Mom doesnt share those same feelings.

But then why did Mom take an attorney with her when questioned but not Sr or Jr.....maybe they were afraid she would cave under questioning.

 

[Skully]

I so hoped the phone would lead us to the perp...

ok the phone had to be one or several of these places

On Michelle
In Hummer
On the perp

Her purse was found in the hummer we know....some people keep phones in their purse and then some keep them on them in their pockets.....

She had to take the kids into the condo and she used her phone to sent text to NM right before entering the condo complex.

Did she put the phone back in her purse in the Hummer...or carry it in....maybe her parents would know his habits about how she used the phone and her purse.

But we know about 60 minutes after arriving at Dale's .... Michelle and her phone was are not where they should be...


To me it was not a smart move to text and toss it ....during the same time and path and direction of Dale jr going to his parents.


Since the purse held no leads....it may mean Michelle did NOT put it back into her purse...

MOO Most likely then she carried it into the condo and the phone never re-entered the hummer.

At this point I would say it is safe to say Michelle and her phone were not together. I would also think that they would have used the hummer to transport her body, only because of evidence left behind would be incriminating. But I could be wrong. At any point the phone could have been tossed and it powers down on it's own at 8pm. He had help, he had too. Can't be in two places at once.

 

[missingm]

At this point I would say it is safe to say Michelle and her phone were not together. I would also think that they would have used the hummer to transport her body, only because of evidence left behind would be incriminating. But I could be wrong. At any point the phone could have been tossed and it powers down on it's own at 8pm. He had help, he had too. Can't be in two places at once.

BBM, wasn't the report from LE that the phone was shut off... as in by someone manually powering it down? Was that story revised later on?

I think that Michelle and the Hummer were separated sometime before 9pm... perhaps by 8pm (when the phone last pinged). I am not as sure before then. There was no evidence at Dale's condo by 11 pm which would be one more entire area to clean without it being obvious.

 

[Kamille]

BBM, wasn't the report from LE that the phone was shut off... as in by someone manually powering it down? Was that story revised later on?

I think that Michelle and the Hummer were separated sometime before 9pm... perhaps by 8pm (when the phone last pinged). I am not as sure before then. There was no evidence at Dale's condo by 11 pm which would be one more entire area to clean without it being obvious.

Yes they did say "powered down" in regards to the phone at 8:01pm. However it's impossible to tell without the actual phone whether it was manual or automatic as in the case of a loss of battery charge power down. They do have the phone now so I'm sure they know which it was. But they did not release any updated information after finding the phone.

MOO

 

[What'sThatClue]

BBM, wasn't the report from LE that the phone was shut off... as in by someone manually powering it down? Was that story revised later on?

I think that Michelle and the Hummer were separated sometime before 9pm... perhaps by 8pm (when the phone last pinged). I am not as sure before then. There was no evidence at Dale's condo by 11 pm which would be one more entire area to clean without it being obvious.

I dunno, I'm not sure LE did a very good search of Dale's condo that night. Maybe a walk-through. Dale did post on his fb that they searched his "entire" place but we don't know that for sure. JMO

It was posted in MSM that they did search DSjr's place on Nov 18th.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/peoples-court-missing-mom-police-search-home-michelle/story?id=15035267

So I just wonder how thoroughly the condo was searched that night before 11pm. JMO

 

[Kamille]

I dunno, I'm not sure LE did a very good search of Dale's condo that night. Maybe a walk-through. Dale did post on his fb that they searched his "entire" place but we don't know that for sure. JMO

It was posted in MSM that they did search DSjr's place on Nov 18th.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/peoples-court-missing-mom-police-search-home-michelle/story?id=15035267

So I just wonder how thoroughly the condo was searched that night before 11pm. JMO

That would have just been a "walk through". Checking every room and just looking around for Michelle and things that seemed odd or out of place.

The following afternoon/evening was a more detailed search with DSJr's permission. Still not a full search warrant search, with CSI investigators, but items of interest were taken during that search. Again, with DSJr's permission.

I don't think there was much, if anything, to see or find at the condo. Especially if this was not a planned event. While Michelle may have been incapacitated there, it is also possible that she did not die there. An unconscious victim, who was incapacitated by means of strangulation/suffocation/blunt force trauma without breaking skin, leaves no forensic evidence at the scene of a crime. Especially one where she once lived and her DNA was expected to be. A deceased victim, where the COD would again be one of the above three, and who is placed in a container and removed from the crime scene rather quickly would also not leave much, if any, forensic evidence.

I can understand why a forensic search of the condo was not requested with a warrant. Most likely in the two instances where LE did enter the condo with permission, they did not find any obvious signs of a crime scene. A forensic search of the condo may have turned up some minute areas of dried blood belonging to Michelle but what would that indicate? She lived there for a period of time. Easily explained away. And a large area of blood would not have been that easy to clean. So I assume that LE did not detect any areas where a clean up had taken place. No strong smell of cleaner in the home etc.

Now if Michelle did leave the condo in a container unconscious but not yet deceased, what would be the best method for insuring that she never returned? A few holes in that container and pitching it into a body of water would be my guess.

MOO

 

[Skully]

If I had a person's phone and I knew that phones can track where you are or at least a general area, I would get rid of the phone or take the battery out as fast as I could to keep someone from tracking me. So the fact that the 4;26 ping is there on Hoffner and Semoran is a huge red flag, some one wanted to throw off the search in my opinion. The next place it pings or powers down is by the Jesse Black Saloon, I think the Oak Ridge area. What does that look like on a map????? Then it is found near Belle Isle, like what a week later? To me it looks like a run a round to throw LE off the tracks of where she really was going or ending up I should say.

Set me straight if I have this out of order or mixed up

 

[Skully]

I don't own a boat, so if any one can get me a mental picture here, it would help. Do we know if Sr docked the boat off of a lake or stored it off property? Or did he keep it in the yard. I do remember a photo of it in the yard, but that was a while ago.

If she is in the hummer and someone else is riding around with the phone and maybe taking the kids back, how would this play out? You would have to use the truck with the boat hitch on it and that would mean taking Jr's or Sr's truck with the boat out, and meeting up with the person driving the hummer containing the body. Then the driver of the truck/boat has to get into the water, get the body from the hummer and get out deep enough and weight down the body and then come a shore. They have to either take the boat back first and then meet up with the person who has now dropped off the hummer in Walden Palms. They have to accomplish this without being seen or at least at a lake that is secluded and remote. I have to wonder if the neighbors saw anyone of them taking the boat out that night. With all that in mind, where is the most likely place north of Vineland that she could have been placed?

 

[Kamille]

If I had a person's phone and I knew that phones can track where you are or at least a general area, I would get rid of the phone or take the battery out as fast as I could to keep someone from tracking me. So the fact that the 4;26 ping is there on Hoffner and Semoran is a huge red flag, some one wanted to throw off the search in my opinion. The next place it pings or powers down is by the Jesse Black Saloon, I think the Oak Ridge area. What does that look like on a map????? Then it is found near Belle Isle, like what a week later? To me it looks like a run a round to throw LE off the tracks of where she really was going or ending up I should say.

Set me straight if I have this out of order or mixed up

If I was driving someone's Hummer out of the area and the phone was in there (most people just keep them in a console for easy access while driving) but I was unaware of it until it "chirped" when a text came in I suppose the first thing I'd do is grab the phone and read the text. And if the text was already asking where the person was and I, or my partner in crime, wasn't finished disposing of them, I might panic and reply to that text to buy more time. And then perhaps make sure that the eventual story incorporated that text. Now if I'm not familiar with an IPhone, I may not know how to power it down. Or perhaps I may just press on the power button and when the screen goes black assume it is off. Which if you own one, you would know it is not technically "off" when doing this. And forget removing the battery. If you don't know anything about them you'd have no idea how to do this. It's not just a matter of removing a back cover and taking out a battery. And then I guess I'd look for the best possible place to get rid of and "destroy" the phone during my travels. Somewhere where it will not be randomly found and somewhere where I don't have to pull off the road or alternate my original plan to do so. Throw it off a bridge into water? Might seem like a good idea to someone not too familiar with an IPhone. Someone who doesn't realize that they are like computers with chips in them that can recover data even when immersed in water.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

I don't own a boat, so if any one can get me a mental picture here, it would help. Do we know if Sr docked the boat off of a lake or stored it off property? Or did he keep it in the yard. I do remember a photo of it in the yard, but that was a while ago.

If she is in the hummer and someone else is riding around with the phone and maybe taking the kids back, how would this play out? You would have to use the truck with the boat hitch on it and that would mean taking Jr's or Sr's truck with the boat out, and meeting up with the person driving the hummer containing the body. Then the driver of the truck/boat has to get into the water, get the body from the hummer and get out deep enough and weight down the body and then come a shore. They have to either take the boat back first and then meet up with the person who has now dropped off the hummer in Walden Palms. They have to accomplish this without being seen or at least at a lake that is secluded and remote. I have to wonder if the neighbors saw anyone of them taking the boat out that night. With all that in mind, where is the most likely place north of Vineland that she could have been placed?

If she was in a container in the Hummer and the plan was to meet up at a location to dispose of her, then the person with the Hummer, the phone and possibly Michelle would have driven directly to that location. Now whether or not the decals were on at that time is questionable. I'm thinking no. So if a boat was needed to carry out this disposal, the person at Rose Blvd, who has dropped off the children, hooks up the boat to the black truck that Sr keeps in the back, probably for hauling the boat, and drives away from Rose Blvd to meet at the predetermined location. Both the boat and black truck were seen at Rose Blvd in subsequent media videos. Once the disposal is done, one person drives the Hummer away to dispose of it while the other returns to Rose Blvd with the boat, drops it off and then goes to pick up the other person at Walden Circle. Or maybe when they returned with the boat, they were told that YS was looking for them so they sent their mother to pick up the other person at Walden Circle while they were calling YS.

Or...maybe the boat was used sometime much later in the evening by DSSr only. Michelle was placed somewhere and when it was obvious the heat was already on DSJr, he went back and moved her. Don't think anyone was watching his movements that night.

MOO

 

[Jazzmaster]

If she was in a container in the Hummer and the plan was to meet up at a location to dispose of her, then the person with the Hummer, the phone and possibly Michelle would have driven directly to that location. Now whether or not the decals were on at that time is questionable. I'm thinking no. So if a boat was needed to carry out this disposal, the person at Rose Blvd, who has dropped off the children, hooks up the boat to the black truck that Sr keeps in the back, probably for hauling the boat, and drives away from Rose Blvd to meet at the predetermined location. Both the boat and black truck were seen at Rose Blvd in subsequent media videos. Once the disposal is done, one person drives the Hummer away to dispose of it while the other returns to Rose Blvd with the boat, drops it off and then goes to pick up the other person at Walden Circle. Or maybe when they returned with the boat, they were told that YS was looking for them so they sent their mother to pick up the other person at Walden Circle while they were calling YS.

Or...maybe the boat was used sometime much later in the evening by DSSr only. Michelle was placed somewhere and when it was obvious the heat was already on DSJr, he went back and moved her. Don't think anyone was watching his movements that night.

MOO

What kind of lighting does Sr's boat have and what docks in the area were open after dark on the 17th? My guess is that if Sr was out on the 18th....he needed a reason that the boat was wet and a way to create a distraction....his boating escapade on the 18th IMO served BOTH purposes.

 

[Jazzmaster]

I haven't see you in a while....hope you are ok....:drumroll:

 

[Jazzmaster]

What kind of lighting does Sr's boat have and what docks in the area were open after dark on the 17th? My guess is that if Sr was out on the 18th....he needed a reason that the boat was wet and a way to create a distraction....his boating escapade on the 18th IMO served BOTH purposes.

The knitting gals and I have even using this site: https://public.myfwc.com/le/boatramp/public/Closest.aspx

I see there are 28 docks within 15 miles of the Smith compound on Rose Blvd. now we are looking at those that were accessible after dark....Most have daylight hours. Hmmmm is this where sr took Michelle?

 

[Skully]

If you buried someone in a cemetery, like Lake Greenwood cemetery, would cadaver dogs pick up on a scent? It has a small lake with a small bridge that goes over it and it would be like hiding something in plain sight, ya know. You are right off a main hwy, 408 so it would be fast to get to and back.

 

[Sparky]

If you buried someone in a cemetery, like Lake Greenwood cemetery, would cadaver dogs pick up on a scent? It has a small lake with a small bridge that goes over it and it would be like hiding something in plain sight, ya know. You are right off a main hwy, 408 so it would be fast to get to and back.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe Greenwood is fenced and gated. Jmo

 

[Kamille]

If you buried someone in a cemetery, like Lake Greenwood cemetery, would cadaver dogs pick up on a scent? It has a small lake with a small bridge that goes over it and it would be like hiding something in plain sight, ya know. You are right off a main hwy, 408 so it would be fast to get to and back.

To the best of my knowledge HRD dogs are pretty useless in cemeteries. They'd be hitting all over the place.

MOO