Flight to London Gatwick crashes at airport in India .June 12 th 2025

[australianwebsleuth]

The issue that arises in my mind is the mental illness taboo in India. It’s an issue that no one wants to own up to. We don’t know what has happened on this flight. I am really concerned that people cannot admit to mental illness or disorder without the stigma or repercussions.

On this thread we have seen issues expressed about the chief pilot being on his last flight. Until today we did not know he was retiring. Nothing about him retiring last week, but today he was suddenly retiring. Who knows what the truth is.

The bigger issue I believe is the acceptance that people can become depressed and not be treated like lepars for admitting it. In India like most places this is social taboo.

Ask yourself? How many people would not be greiving if we as a society had a more rational response? Instead we have people hide the issue rather than deal with it with catastrophic results.

 

[Dotta]

"Prayer service remembers the 12 crew lost in crash.​

As reactions continue to come in following the release of the preliminary report,
a prayer service has been held in Mumbai,
where both pilots were based.

The church,
where the service was held in honour of the 12 crew lost in the crash,
was packed full of people paying their respects.

The father of First Officer Clive Kunder was in attendance,
according to Reuters, which reported
'emotional scenes played out among grieving relatives'."

Victims' families demand answers as report says fuel switches cut off before Air India crash

In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why he "did the cut-off", the other pilot replied that he didn't.

www.bbc.com

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1943978127845146827

 

[CriLondon]

British Airways plane caught fire at Gatwick after pilot confusion

The aborted take-off involving a British Airways flight to Vancouver led to 23 cancelled departures.

www.bbc.co.uk

While I refrain from blaming until a final report is issued , and while this article is unrelated and also in my view an extremely rare occasion , this is what happened to a BA flight .
Pilot reduced thrust by mistake which led to a rejected take off at LGW and brakes caught fire .
It's a genuine yet unexplained human error which shows that it is possible to make very dangerous mistakes , which in this case led to a damaged aircraft but no injuries or loss of life .
Any other day , on a different runway and this could have had a very different ending .

 

[Deleted member 367982]

The fuel cut off switches are the last thing you would want either pilot to make a mistake with.
I think the airline is going to put them into a different position to make it even more difficult to make a mistake like that happen again, if it did happen to be the cause of the engines to fail in flight.
I can understand flaps and retracting landing gear could be confused but not turning off the fuel to the engines. That should never be able to happen even in the worst decision making error. IMO

 

[indicolite22]

A brain ‘fart’ by a pilot in which the engines are turned off instead of the undercarriage raised.

SBM. The timing of the cutoff and the fact that it was an uneventful flight until then don't point to a mistake made in an emergency or as part of a routine procedure. What would the fuel switches be mistaken for? The gear switch is not near nor a similar shape.

 

[Woolly]

On this thread we have seen issues expressed about the chief pilot being on his last flight. Until today we did not know he was retiring. Nothing about him retiring last week, but today he was suddenly retiring. Who knows what the truth.

Respectfully, we did know he was retiring. This is from a BBC article from June 14th:

“Captain Sabharwal was a veteran Air India pilot with nearly three decades of experience. With more than 8,200 hours of flying experience, he was the most senior crew member on the flight.

He was a Line Training Captain (LTC), a role entrusted to only the most seasoned pilots responsible for mentoring younger crew members.

The 60-year-old was just months away from retirement and had planned to spend more time with his father, a former civil aviation official with whom he lived, The Indian Express newspaper reported.

"He would take his father on evening walks when he was home, since the news of the air crash everyone is in shock," a guard at the building where the pilot live told the BBC.”

Who are the victims of the Air India plane crash?

Those who died in the disaster range from a tea seller's son, to people visiting relatives and students eating in a canteen.

www.bbc.com

 

[Cryptic]

I think the airline is going to put them into a different position to make it even more difficult to make a mistake...

As a commerical airline pilot with a You Tube channel said: "The switches are not light switches- you cannot brush one with your hand and shut it off".

Rather, he explained that the switches need to be pushed down twisted, then pulled up, then moved to the new setting, then let go of.

In short, he stated that one cannot shut off the engines inadvertently. He also added that if one engine fails during take off, the training procedure is to always continue the climb (as other posters have noted), then start trouble shooting the engines.

The pilot also added that shutting down a failing engine also involves an elaborate system of double checks to ensure that the correct engine is actually shut down given the potential for disaster:

- Captain and First officer confirm which engine is failing. Both must agree on what engine is failing. The captain then gives shut down order.

- Co pilot announces that his hand is on the appropriate left verse right engine switch. Captain confirms correct switch is actually selected. Captain repeats command to shut down left verse right engine. Co pilot repeats that he is shutting down that specific engine- and then actually shuts it down.

None of that occurred in Air India. Rather, the pilot apparently shut the engines off, then denied it. The co pilot then turned the engines back on. But..... unlike Air Alaska and the drugged out jump seat pilot, the engines could not be re started in time.

 

[Charlot123]

The issue that arises in my mind is the mental illness taboo in India. It’s an issue that no one wants to own up to. We don’t know what has happened on this flight. I am really concerned that people cannot admit to mental illness or disorder without the stigma or repercussions.

On this thread we have seen issues expressed about the chief pilot being on his last flight. Until today we did not know he was retiring. Nothing about him retiring last week, but today he was suddenly retiring. Who knows what the truth is.

The bigger issue I believe is the acceptance that people can become depressed and not be treated like lepars for admitting it. In India like most places this is social taboo.

Ask yourself? How many people would not be greiving if we as a society had a more rational response? Instead we have people hide the issue rather than deal with it with catastrophic results.

My impression: it is not a taboo in India. Perhaps I am meeting with better-educated Indians, but I have traveled to India; nowadays, not a taboo at all.

It is a taboo, worldwide, among aviators, the police, and the army.

Where people bear guns or fly planes and passengers.

This needs to change, and I think the standards don’t differ - wherever we look.

I think that to start with free therapy is a minimum. Studies have shown that if a suicidal person with a plan talks to someone on their way, that alone might make a huge difference.

Therapy groups, too. Pilots are rather open about what’s happening in their lives. By nature they should do well in groups. Decompress.

Is it that much to ask for?

 

[Charlot123]

None of that occurred in Air India. Rather, the pilot apparently shut the engines off, then denied it. The co pilot then turned the engines back on. But..... unlike Air Alaska and the drugged out jump seat pilot, the engines could not be re started in time.

RSBM.

We might be confused in who was the pilot and who, the co-pilot on this flight. Air India may not be quite sure either, at this time.

Anyhow, in 23 seconds, almost 300 people were dead. It is comparable to the flash flood in Texas. Only it was fire.

Several takehome messages.

- it is not the Dreamliner’s fault

- it is neither the fuel nor poor maintenance by Air India

In a way, two major factors have been off the table.

The black box redundancy is a good idea.

About the pilots: we have huge families of grieving, probably angry relatives of the victims. My heart goes out to them.

And the pilots’ families. They are not at fault. But at this point they might need to be protected.

So i don’t feel we have the right to weigh in on “who did that”. Truth is, we don’t know. We have one very old, ailing father, himself a former pilot, who needs peace with having buried his beloved son. We have the family of a young man who just started his career and who, too, have just buried their son. Both families live in a humongous city.

They are victims, too.

So let us just wait.

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1944086919073128725

https://twitter.com/x/status/1944084266163241201

 

[IQuestion]

Independent thought not tied to any post, but developing from only published MSM and from my personal family experience, pilots enjoy their jobs. It takes a lot to get there in the first place and I have never known one who said, "I'll take early retirement." Au contraire, they are usually in the camp of pushing for raising the mandatory retirement age...60, then 65, now pushing for 67.
Investigators are going through every part of the Captain and First Officer, personal/private/professional/emotional stressors/ medical & mental. (Everything from what they ate, drank and if they used their cell phones during periods of mandatory rest time.)
According to (now numerous articles) Captain S's time was "short." " 'Just one or two flights left, then I am going to be just with Papa.'"
If Captain had to catch a plane from Mumbai to Ahmedabad (flight ONE) and then Ahmedabad to London (flight TWO).
The incredibly sad pieces are beginning to fit...and even the airline is now stating he was on his way out of his job. My mind is imagining a man who is seeing "the end" of too much to handle...
"I hope I die first because I can't imagine a life without you." ???
Man-oh-man...this is really messed up...a lot of social & cultural taboos, secrets, resentment...just not wanting to go on?
Attempted suicide is a crime in India, but actually accomplishing the act is not! Go figure.

Decriminalising attempted suicide in India: the new penal code​

BNS Decriminalise Attempted Suicide in India

BNS removes Section 309 IPC, ending criminal penalties for attempted suicide in India. A crucial step toward compassionate mental health care.This is a transformational approach and gives support to victims of death by suicide and their families.

cmhlp.org

 

[Cryptic]

We might be confused in who was the pilot and who, the co-pilot on this flight. Air India may not be quite sure either, at this time.

I think it is likely that Air India knows who was acting as "Pilot" and Pilot Monitoring" from black box records of control inputs, cockpit recordings, and who was handling the radio calls. (pilot monitoring will handle the radio so as to allow the flying pilot to concentrate fully on the take off).

 

[indicolite22]

I think it is likely that Air India knows who was acting as "Pilot" and Pilot Monitoring" from black box records of control inputs, cockpit recordings, and who was handling the radio calls. (pilot monitoring will handle the radio so as to allow the flying pilot to concentrate fully on the take off).

It's in the report, the co-pilot was the pilot flying and the captain was the pilot monitoring on the takeoff, so the latter would be designated to handle the radio calls. But after the cutoff, who knows. I wonder if the person who cut off the fuel participated in the engine restart attempt at all.

 

[Spectrix]

I think it is likely that Air India knows who was acting as "Pilot" and Pilot Monitoring" from black box records of control inputs, cockpit recordings, and who was handling the radio calls. (pilot monitoring will handle the radio so as to allow the flying pilot to concentrate fully on the take off).

According to the preliminary report, first officer Clive Kundar was the pilot flying.
Captain Sumeet Sabharwal was the co-pilot that day (and most probably heard on the mayday call).

Based on that information, one might infer that it's more likely that Captain Sumeet Sabharwal was responsible for altering the fuel switches, because that happened just seconds after rotation, at a time when the first officer would have had both hands on the yolk.

.

 

[IQuestion]

According to the preliminary report, first officer Clive Kundar was the pilot flying.
Captain Sumeet Sabharwal was the co-pilot that day (and most probably heard on the mayday call).

Based on that information, one might infer that it's more likely that Captain Sumeet Sabharwal was responsible for altering the fuel switches, because that happened just seconds after rotation, at a time when the first officer would have had both hands on the yolk.

.

bingo...

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1944152248977633609

 

[australianwebsleuth]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1944152248977633609

Dotta, that is the Daily Fail. Not sure it is trustworthy.

 

[LittleSeaTree]

That's so shocking if this is murder suicide. That wasn't something I'd even thought of in this case.

Yessss, whew did I gasp when I read about the fuel cutoff

 

[australianwebsleuth]

According to the preliminary report, first officer Clive Kundar was the pilot flying.
Captain Sumeet Sabharwal was the co-pilot that day (and most probably heard on the mayday call).

Based on that information, one might infer that it's more likely that Captain Sumeet Sabharwal was responsible for altering the fuel switches, because that happened just seconds after rotation, at a time when the first officer would have had both hands on the yolk.

.

It happens at the same time the undercarriage should have been retracted. (The co-pilot responsibility). It is likely to be the Captain. He was turning the fuel switches off instead of raising the undercarriage.

We can’t tell whether that was intentional. How do you get inside someone’s head. The human factors involved in suicide murder are the same for being distracted and not having one’s mind on the job.

He may have been in a dissociative mental state and simply automatically pulled the switches.

I doubt we will ever know whether it was intentional or not.

The issue of the mental state of pilots is a real concern and demands a bigger, logical and non punitive response of airlines. There have been multiple events now where this is the main cause. Aircraft are now so safe that the Achilles heal are the people at the pointy end.