For Solace (and anyone else who is interested)

[twinkiesmom]

How does one make cell phone records vanish? I lean towards John calling one of his lawyers that morning and they suggested that he call 911. Why would they do that? Because they know something was wrong with John's story or John told them outright what happened. It was either reported in Thomas' book or Schiller's that a girlfriend of one of the lawyers working on the case told her Patsy did it. Of course this is hearsay and means nothing, but it is interesting.

I think the more interesting hearsay was the secretary at John's company who claims to have overheard Aunt Pam...Secretary passed a polygraph...I think I read it in the Bonita papers over at Forums for Justice.

 

[Solace]

I think the more interesting hearsay was the secretary at John's company who claims to have overheard Aunt Pam...Secretary passed a polygraph...I think I read it in the Bonita papers over at Forums for Justice.

Overheard what???????????

 

[UKGuy]

Great post UK. So tell me what do you think happened to her size 6 underwear?

Solace,
Her size-6 underwear has to be stained with the perps semen/saliva etc, else why make them vanish.

If you are faking a nasty intruder crime-scene that includes a sexual assault why not leave her in her size-6's or if she was wearing nothing, naked?

The thing that is not required and takes up more valuable time is redressing JonBenet in red-flag-waving, oversized brand new bloomingdales panties.

Then as a parent make the remaining size-12's vanish from sight of the CSI people, suggesting the intruder not only redressed JonBenet, but removed the panty tube. Then once everyone cottons onto the fact that JonBenet was actually wearing big-girls underwear, despite just returning from a party and likely wanting relax for the rest of the evening, as the pineapple snack suggests. The parents suddenly discover size-12's hidden away in a packing crate, have these been tested for touch dna duh!

Also whomever removed the size-6's has to knew that they were taking away crime-scene evidence that implicated a Ramsey. So the rest of the extended Ramsey relatives must know who did it?



.

 

[twinkiesmom]

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-diane-hallis.htm

 

[Solace]

Solace,
Her size-6 underwear has to be stained with the perps semen/saliva etc, else why make them vanish.

If you are faking a nasty intruder crime-scene that includes a sexual assault why not leave her in her size-6's or if she was wearing nothing, naked?

The thing that is not required and takes up more valuable time is redressing JonBenet in red-flag-waving, oversized brand new bloomingdales panties.

Then as a parent make the remaining size-12's vanish from sight of the CSI people, suggesting the intruder not only redressed JonBenet, but removed the panty tube. Then once everyone cottons onto the fact that JonBenet was actually wearing big-girls underwear, despite just returning from a party and likely wanting relax for the rest of the evening, as the pineapple snack suggests. The parents suddenly discover size-12's hidden away in a packing crate, have these been tested for touch dna duh!

Also whomever removed the size-6's has to knew that they were taking away crime-scene evidence that implicated a Ramsey. So the rest of the extended Ramsey relatives must know who did it?



.

Possibly true. I can't get my mind around John throwing everything away in such an obvious way. Why is he going to take the chance of getting caught molesting his daughter with Patsy right upstairs in the early hours of the morning. It is a HUUUUUUGE risk.

 

[LI_Mom]

I have wavered back and forth as to what happened in this case and I always come back to Thomas' theory. I just think it was a rage killing and I think there was corporal punishment going on with JonBenet courtesy of Patsy in the way of douching. I realize that what the maid says is hearsay, but it goes along - hearing Patsy screaming and JonBenet crying in the bathroom daily.

Anybody have any ideas as to what happened to her underwear that she had been wearing. Is it possible that they just put the longjohn's on her that night and removed her underwear because it was bedtime?

If the child suffered chronic vaginal infections.... I would think her pediatrician would tell her NOT to dress the child in underpants at bedtime. It's much healthier to leave off the underwear at nighttime even in normal circumstances.

 

[LI_Mom]

http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1997BPD-John-Interview-Complete.htm

TT: When you saw the white blanket, was JonBenet completely covered up? How was she laying there, cause I wasn’t there that day.

JR: She was laying on the blanket, and the blanket was kind of folded around her legs. And her arms were tied behind her head, and there was some pieces of black tape (inaudible) on her legs, and her head was cocked to the side.



---

TT: Can, could you tell me step-by-step when you found her, tell me how you picked her up and tell me (inaudible).

JR: Right. I found her and I, the first hope of course is that she’s OK. I took the tape off her lips, and her lips were blue. And I tried to untie her hands and her arms. She was stiff, and so I was afraid that she was gone, and so I just picked her up, and screams, and the I went upstairs and laid her down on the floor and I heard Suzanne, she said she’s dead.

TT: OK. Tell me, you talked about you picked her up. Again, I have to use for the tape more than anything.

JR: I picked her up, you know, under her arms.

TT: So, she’s up and down.

JR: Uh-huh.

TT: OK. You carry her upstairs that way?

----


"Some pieces of black tape ______ on her legs"..... what's the inaudible word?

Pieces? ON her legs... not around her legs??? Does this mean the tape was not meant to be a restraint. Was it just laid on top of her? This seems odd. I wish they went further with the questioning in these interviews.


It ALWAYS bothered me how John carried JB upstairs. It seemed so unnatural to carry a child under the arms instead of cradling her body... i's not as if he's suddenly concerned with disturbing any evidence on her body.

And then puts her on the FLOOR instead of a couch... why bring her upstairs just to deposit her on the floor again?

 

[UKGuy]

Possibly true. I can't get my mind around John throwing everything away in such an obvious way. Why is he going to take the chance of getting caught molesting his daughter with Patsy right upstairs in the early hours of the morning. It is a HUUUUUUGE risk.

Solace,
Patsy probably knew and looked the other way, maybe that was the pageant deal, she gets her lifestyle with treats if she plays ball?

I reckon whatever occurred was not isolated to just that incident that night, it likely had been happening regularly with JonBenet complaining. This is probably what the xmas dissent was all about, and JonBenet's dislike of her MyTwinn Doll, she was rebelling against the stereotype, it all culminated in some form of rage directed at JonBenet.

Remember Patsy's public remarks about nobody molesting JonBenet whilst she was absent because Nedra slept in her room? Is that not a red flag, you need your mother on hand just in case, what!

For all you know given Nedra's influence over Patsy re:money , pageants etc, maybe she played the same game, and rolled over?


.
.

 

[UKGuy]

If the child suffered chronic vaginal infections.... I would think her pediatrician would tell her NOT to dress the child in underpants at bedtime. It's much healthier to leave off the underwear at nighttime even in normal circumstances.

LI_Mom,

But they did including longjohns, what does that tell you?

 

[UKGuy]

http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1997BPD-John-Interview-Complete.htm

TT: When you saw the white blanket, was JonBenet completely covered up? How was she laying there, cause I wasn’t there that day.

JR: She was laying on the blanket, and the blanket was kind of folded around her legs. And her arms were tied behind her head, and there was some pieces of black tape (inaudible) on her legs, and her head was cocked to the side.



---

TT: Can, could you tell me step-by-step when you found her, tell me how you picked her up and tell me (inaudible).

JR: Right. I found her and I, the first hope of course is that she’s OK. I took the tape off her lips, and her lips were blue. And I tried to untie her hands and her arms. She was stiff, and so I was afraid that she was gone, and so I just picked her up, and screams, and the I went upstairs and laid her down on the floor and I heard Suzanne, she said she’s dead.

TT: OK. Tell me, you talked about you picked her up. Again, I have to use for the tape more than anything.

JR: I picked her up, you know, under her arms.

TT: So, she’s up and down.

JR: Uh-huh.

TT: OK. You carry her upstairs that way?

----


"Some pieces of black tape ______ on her legs"..... what's the inaudible word?

Pieces? ON her legs... not around her legs??? Does this mean the tape was not meant to be a restraint. Was it just laid on top of her? This seems odd. I wish they went further with the questioning in these interviews.


It ALWAYS bothered me how John carried JB upstairs. It seemed so unnatural to carry a child under the arms instead of cradling her body... i's not as if he's suddenly concerned with disturbing any evidence on her body.

And then puts her on the FLOOR instead of a couch... why bring her upstairs just to deposit her on the floor again?

LI_Mom,
Because he is acting out a charade and wants to contaminate the forensic evidence, anyone with half a brain would call for ER to look at JonBenet where she lay, so to preserve any evidence, but since the parents put it there initially, this was of no importance to them.


.

 

[Solace]

Solace,
Patsy probably knew and looked the other way, maybe that was the pageant deal, she gets her lifestyle with treats if she plays ball?

I reckon whatever occurred was not isolated to just that incident that night, it likely had been happening regularly with JonBenet complaining. This is probably what the xmas dissent was all about, and JonBenet's dislike of her MyTwinn Doll, she was rebelling against the stereotype, it all culminated in some form of rage directed at JonBenet.

Remember Patsy's public remarks about nobody molesting JonBenet whilst she was absent because Nedra slept in her room? Is that not a red flag, you need your mother on hand just in case, what!

For all you know given Nedra's influence over Patsy re:money , pageants etc, maybe she played the same game, and rolled over?


.
.

You know when I read that she said that, in the same interview with JOHN THERE NO LESS, I thought if I were doing nothing I would hate that remark and hate her for saying it. We are not talking about going out for a drink with the boys and your mother in law was around to make sure you towed the line. We are talking about you not molesting your own child. Yes, it is a red flag.

My son happens to believe that the death of his daughter Beth may well have been a contributing factor in his molesting JB. That is his thought on the prior abuse. He did say his loss of Beth was something he thought he would never get over and would cry while driving - it could be my son is right on that one.

The fact that he was so willing to implicate so many of his friends - when I really started reading what he said about whom - I thought John you are capable of anything.

He comes across so pious and loving and then when you actually read what he said about some of his friends or neighbors, including the Barnhills, you get a whole other side of John Ramsey.

 

[LI_Mom]

LI_Mom,

But they did including longjohns, what does that tell you?

Nothing, really.

I'm not saying that little girls should go to bed bottomless... only that a halfway decent doctor would tell the parents to leave underpants off the child at bedtime.

Just like a fertility doctor will advise males that boxers are better than briefs if there's a problem with conceiving.... same concept here. You need air to circulate so the body is not too hot.

 

[LI_Mom]

LI_Mom,
Because he is acting out a charade and wants to contaminate the forensic evidence, anyone with half a brain would call for ER to look at JonBenet where she lay, so to preserve any evidence, but since the parents put it there initially, this was of no importance to them.


.

Amazing, isn't it.... the police TELL people to search the house & forget to warn them NOT to touch anything.

You have to wonder if you added up ALL the IQs in the house that morning if it would have reached triple figures. lol


Any thoughts on that tape ON the legs business? That's sure weird.

 

[UKGuy]

You know when I read that she said that, in the same interview with JOHN THERE NO LESS, I thought if I were doing nothing I would hate that remark and hate her for saying it. We are not talking about going out for a drink with the boys and your mother in law was around to make sure you towed the line. We are talking about you not molesting your own child. Yes, it is a red flag.

My son happens to believe that the death of his daughter Beth may well have been a contributing factor in his molesting JB. That is his thought on the prior abuse. He did say his loss of Beth was something he thought he would never get over and would cry while driving - it could be my son is right on that one.

The fact that he was so willing to implicate so many of his friends - when I really started reading what he said about whom - I thought John you are capable of anything.

He comes across so pious and loving and then when you actually read what he said about some of his friends or neighbors, including the Barnhills, you get a whole other side of John Ramsey.

Solace,

He comes across so pious and loving and then when you actually read what he said about some of his friends or neighbors, including the Barnhills, you get a whole other side of John Ramsey.

Sure, its all an act. he is playing a role. The sad millionaire that lost two daughters to violent deaths, then his beloved wife.

I reckon your son may be correct the death plus Patsy's cancer and her total revulsion towards his preferred form of intimacy probably sealed JonBenet's fate, her role as a pageant princess seems a little too coincidental given other circumstances.


.

 

[UKGuy]

Nothing, really.

I'm not saying that little girls should go to bed bottomless... only that a halfway decent doctor would tell the parents to leave underpants off the child at bedtime.

Just like a fertility doctor will advise males that boxers are better than briefs if there's a problem with conceiving.... same concept here. You need air to circulate so the body is not too hot.

LI_Mom,
Well for me longjohns plus underwear would prevent the circulation of air. Also when you realize that it was probably Patsy who arranged the pineapple treat, all that fluid intake for JonBenet so late at night, it was obvious she might wet the bed, so why become enraged about it?

 

[Solace]

The time of death is also a questioning factor. The autopsy showed rigor mortis in lower extremities and joints only, an effect that occurs five to eight hours after death. This would put JonBenét's death around the early morning hours.


The above is from an article posted on the most recent thread created by SD.

I always was under the impression that she was killed around midnight. Am I wrong?

 

[LI_Mom]

LI_Mom,
Well for me longjohns plus underwear would prevent the circulation of air. Also when you realize that it was probably Patsy who arranged the pineapple treat, all that fluid intake for JonBenet so late at night, it was obvious she might wet the bed, so why become enraged about it?

Solace asked if maybe JB did NOT wear underpants to bed... that's why I mentioned what a doctor SHOULD tell the mother about leaving off the underpants.

Patsy does NOT remove the underpants... either her doctor didn't advise her OR she didn't follow his advice. Bad for JB, either way.


Let's keep in mind, bedwetting as a catalyst was ONLY a theory ST used to come up with some possible motive.

IF you can come up with ONE motive to show a person might be capable of an act, then there would probably be OTHER possible motives that could lead to the same act. The question would be: can you see this person DOING the act? If so, under what circumstances.

Bedwetting?
Opening your mouth & saying something nasty to your mother?

Remember... there is also a question as to whether JB was asleep when they returned home.

Could Patsy have gone upstairs to get her ready for bed & they were talking about the Xmas gifts?

Could an overtired Patsy & JB started bickering & it spiralled out of control in the blink of an eye.....

PR: I was very disappointed/angry that you wouldn't wear your cute red top to the party.

JB: I don't care. I wanted to wear this one.

PR: Don't use that tone of voice with me! I'm the mother & you better show me respect.

JB: I don't care. I don't care. Why are you so mean to me? I hate you! I hate you!

PR: You ungrateful child! You BRAT!!! I do EVERYTHING for you. The pageants, the presents, the special doll...

JB: I HATE the stupid pageants & I didn't want that stupid doll, I wanted a video game like Burke got..... that doll is ugly!


****BAM****

 

[angelwngs]

Very early on, I thought it was a possibility that JBR hit her head on the faucet in the bathtub after being rough handled in the tub.

If it was an accident of any nature, the 2 reasons for a cover-up could be if BR was somehow involved and needed protecting and/or to hide the prior sexual molestation, IMO.

 

[LI_Mom]

Very early on, I thought it was a possibility that JBR hit her head on the faucet in the bathtub after being rough handled in the tub.

If it was an accident of any nature, the 2 reasons for a cover-up could be if BR was somehow involved and needed protecting and/or to hide the prior sexual molestation, IMO.

I also think THE most logical motive in a staging would be something intentional OR unintentional happened involving Burke.

They thought JB was beyond helping AND they go crazy thinking how to protect Burke.

Too many little things concerning or connected to Burke seem questionable:

Was he awake & snacking that night with JB?

The enhanced 911 call

NOT waking him immediately to find out if he heard anything when the intruder kidnapped their daughter

Not sure about the flashlight.... Burke gave the flashlight to John

Not sure about the bat. Wasn't it his.

No idea why Burke's knife is downstairs

The Hi-Tec footprint & denying Burke ever owned shoes like that.


If I'm protecting Burke, I want to deflect attention AWAY from him whenever I possibly can.

 

[angelwngs]

I thought it was John Andrew who gave John the flashlight for Father's Day... and that it was John Andrew who owned a similar pair of high-tech boots...