For those who agree with the verdict...help me understand.

[beccalecca1]

After KC changed her story to a pool accident, something started bugging the heck out of me...the trunk stain. I did a little research, and found out that a drowning victim usually reverts to a semi fetal position. (for scientific reasons). So it seems that a drowning is consistent with the form of the stain in the trunk. Now, from what I could gather, the stain is up for interpretation, so I'm not trying to start a big debate...but in my mind anyway, the stain doesn't contradict a drowning. Yes, there could be other reasons, but it does make me more open to a drowning story. MOO.

The trunk stain... are you referring to that white-ish outline?

I've been completely confused on this "stain" thing. I saw a pile of dirt (I think) and a whitish powdery looking mark in the center of the trunk. That doesn't equate to me as human decomp fluid. Am I looking at the same thing that you are referring to?

 

[nursebeeme]

bbm

I agree with you woof.

When the state rested their case in chief I recall posting, "is that all?"

while less may be more in some cases I think more would have been better here in the SA case in chief.

I think they may have been too focused on strategy and possible cross examination by the defense and points brought up by them...

it is all truly hindsight now however...

we all have our hindsight goggles on... I am sure the State does as well imhoo

hate to quote my own self but I also want to add that in their opening argument the state promised to show where casey was per pings during those 31 days and they never did... I wish they would have done this.

I further wish that LE had investigated from ground zero out more thoroughly to include GA, CA, and LA... from the get go (ie: cell phone records, etc) and wish the state would have nipped it off at the bud in their opening with what they DID have... sure they put GA on the stand first to say he had nothing to do with an accident... but they KNEW that RC was going to be up at some point with her snowball out of control.

I don't know.. I just, as well, found the SA case in chief to sparse and too short for a circumstantial case. They needed to pour on everything but the kitchen sink imhoo..

again... this is in hindsight.. but I was actually wondering where EVERYTHING WAS when the state rested...

 

[crucibelle]

Exactly. Sometimes you have to put things together. Does the jury know that there are cases won where there is no BODY. Those juries didn't need the physical proof that a person was dead. They were able to figure it out and put the evidence together. Sometimes there is no smoking gun, no road map, no video tape, and you have to actually think and use your head.

I said elsewhere on this forum that the jury didn't need to be "spoon-fed" information. That was before the verdict. Based on their verdict and what Juror #3 has said, I think this jury EXPECTED the prosecution to spoon-feed them every little detail. This jury did not want to have to reason & think, at all.

 

[GracieLu]

Yeah, but there was no Zanny and she was at the house with Caylee, as she lied about having a job as well. And there is an hour of unusual activity,and an unsupervised child and a pool. So, for some its more logical to believe this then thinking Scientist Casey was knocking Caylee out for short periods of times to party. Makes no sense.

I agree, i dont believe Caylee was ever knocked out before June 16th either. Cindy watched her or she spent time with whoever ICA was dating. But TL didn't want Caylee at his apartment (certainly not to spend the night). There was no job and there was no nanny but there was a date and no babysitter. Who was watching Caylee?

 

[Aqua_Green_Bean]

(snipped)

I think that says it all. You'd vote guilty in a first degree, death penalty case based on "common sense" and a scattering of expert testimony countered by the defense. Circumstantial evidence, if it forms a totality, is indeed effective evidence. But to think that that is what the jury had here is to have viewed the trial through different eyes than my own.

What I don't understand is the lack of anger at the prosecutor's office for overcharging this case based on the evidence at hand, then sending two loyal assistant prosecutors out to try a pig in a poke. Casey might have been jailed for years to come if the charges had have been less extreme. A body of people charged with ruling on a case which might result in the state putting a person to death demands higher proof.

Yes, sometimes you have to "put things together," but this jigsaw puzzle was missing several of its key pieces.

We will have to agree to disagree because I felt that the puzzle was put together in the only reasonable and logical way possible. My puzzle doesn't need a cause of death, or a weapon, or DNA evidence (especially because my common sense would tell me that after 6 months in a Florida swamp these things disintegrated due to nature). If a credible expert, like the lead medical examiner of Florida, says that the death is a homicide by unknown cause, that is enough for me to add "homicide" as a puzzle piece. I don't feel that the defense effectively or concretely countered any of the state's evidence and proof. At least not with any reasonable explanation.

Also there were less extreme charges she could have been found guilty of, but she wasn't.

I watched the entire trial start to finish and would need to re-look at several transcripts and pieces of evidence before I could say that I would have found her guilty or not-guilty of 1st degree murder (another thing that makes me angry is that the jurors did not do this). I do know that if I were a juror and had found her guilty of 1st degree, I would not have voted for the death penalty. Besides, the penalty should be of NO consideration when making a verdict.

 

[beccalecca1]

The juror, instead of being defensive and whining about how we should be mad at the prosecution, should have just pounded home that we really shouldn't be mad at anyone, because the tangible evidence, which is so necessary in a death penalty case, just didn't exist. But instead of standing her ground on tangibles and logic, she went into, what I considered, a wild speculation of GA. There was a lot less tangible evidence pointing to him than there was to KC, but one got a pass and the other got the shaft. I guess what I'm trying to say is...investigators, the prosecution, and the jury all made mistakes, but considering the hefty charges, I think the right decision was made...but maybe for the wrong reasons. MOO.

**snipped**

You say this is a wild speculation about George and the jury should've paid attention to the evidence because it was all pointing at Casey. There was a lot less tangible evidence about George because they didn't really investigate George. And, after what the DT brought up on him, naturally the lack of evidence on him would bring up reasonable doubt. I don't blame this jury one bit on their verdict. This whole case was clearly a one sided investigation on how to get Casey, they didn't consider any other possibilities. They should've looked into George more. They should've been pulling those records 6 months ago when Casey and JB came out with this theory/truth. They pulled the records on Cindy real quick when she claimed to have done the computer searches, couldn't they do the same to prove George had nothing to do with this? Their lack of doing so makes me suspicious, and probably made the jurors suspicious too.

 

[Hot Dogs]

Me too. I'm, like, what? This big bad state case, which, for years, I've heard drumming in the distance like the sounds of coming battle, was - that? That was it??

There really wasn't a reason to expect more. I mean, all of the State's evidence was in the doc dumps. There could be no hidden surprise smoking guns because we knew about all of their stuff beforehand.

 

[crucibelle]

Add that to GA being the last to see Caylee and Casey and they never pulled his cell phone records and pings?! This is standard stuff for any investigation of this kind.

Yeah, that shocked me that LE didn't pull GA's phone records and pings. IMO, they should have. I also think they should have pulled Roy Kronk's, as well. Does anyone know if George's work records/time sheets are viewable online anywhere? If someone could point me to those, I'd appreciate it greatly.

 

[beccalecca1]

We will have to agree to disagree because I felt that the puzzle was put together in the only reasonable and logical way possible. My puzzle doesn't need a cause of death, or a weapon, or DNA evidence (especially because my common sense would tell me that after 6 months in a Florida swamp these things disintegrated due to nature). If a credible expert, like the lead medical examiner of Florida, says that the death is a homicide by unknown cause, that is enough for me to add "homicide" as a puzzle piece. I don't feel that the defense effectively or concretely countered any of the state's evidence and proof. At least not with any reasonable explanation.

Also there were less extreme charges she could have been found guilty of, but she wasn't.

I watched the entire trial start to finish and would need to re-look at several transcripts and pieces of evidence before I could say that I would have found her guilty or not-guilty of 1st degree murder (another thing that makes me angry is that the jurors did not do this). I do know that if I were a juror and had found her guilty of 1st degree, I would not have voted for the death penalty. Besides, the penalty should be of NO consideration when making a verdict.

Homicide doesn't always equate to murder though.

 

[pcrum12]

Exactly, and how about not pulling anything on Roy Kronk either, the guy who found Caylee's body at least 3 times, if not more. The LE didn't find any of this worth their time, instead they're going to look into each and everyone of Casey's friends, ex boyfriend, etc. ?

When JB began talking about how their case was solely focused on Casey in court, it was pretty clear to me that was the truth. I'm still bothered that they didn't get DNA from Roy Kronk, who admittedly urinated in/near the crime scene. You're going to go on his word that he didn't touch the crime scene, 6 months after the beginning of this investigation with all the other lies that have circulated? Really?

I don't think he applied duct tape though, as someone suggested before. He didn't have access to that specific brand of tape (that I know of), and why would he? Plus, the tape that was found on scene had clearly been there for a while. But, I do believe he manipulated the scene.

I don't think he had anything to do with putting duct tape on the skull. I don't think he took the remains home and I also don't think the DT was even suggesting that. But everyone went with that in the media lol. However, he did move the bag and move the skull. And I think he did mark the spot so he could come back. I think the duct tape may have been taping the canvas bag or was just part of the trash already there.

 

[liltexans]

I find it offensive when people say that those who disagree with the verdict are "little gods" or are "ignorant" or "arrogant". These are not-so-subtle attacks on the posters here.

I was not attacking any poster here. There were groups supporting Casey outside the courthouse on verdict day. That's the first day I had heard of any such groups. I was referring to them and to talking heads whom I had heard with my own ears previously state that they would personally find Casey guilty. They changed their minds after the verdict and said, "Oh, I would have acquitted her."

I can't explain this any more plainly. Not everything is about the people here, but I DO take offense at being labeled ignorant or arrogant simply because I do not agree with the verdict.

 

[Soulmagent]

I don't need cold, hard evidence. I looked at all of the evidence that the state presented - Casey last one to see Caylee, not reporting Caylee dead/missing for 31 days, made up the nanny story, partied for a month, chloroform in the car, "How to Make Chloroform" searched on the computer, Please fill in the what happened here part.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------smell of death in the car, hair with death band in the car, body found in a bag that matched a bag at the mothers house, duct tape found on the remains that was the same duct tape found at the house. Maybe on their own each one of those pieces of evidence would not be enough. But when you look at ALL of those things together, that is enough evidence, IMO. And again IMO there is no reasonable way to explain any other way those things could have happened.

I would really like to hear a situation where all of those things could have occurred that doesn't involve Casey killing her daughter. Could you, or someone who feels that the evidence was not there, please tell a situation or circumstance where all the presented evidence could have occurred?

BBM Murder or accident ? Does it matter ?

 

[gladiatorqueen]

I can't explain this any more plainly. Not everything is about the people here, but I DO take offense at being labeled ignorant or arrogant simply because I do not agree with the verdict.

Ditto to that. I have felt as though people consider me ignorant or lazy because I agree with the juries' verdict. I am sure for the most part none of the posters feel strongly either way, but are mostly venting their frustrations.

 

[wfgodot]

There really wasn't a reason to expect more. I mean, all of the State's evidence was in the doc dumps. There could be no hidden surprise smoking guns because we knew about all of their stuff beforehand.

I didn't follow the case, other than its basics - so no Nancy Grace et al., no WS threads pro or con, no internet searches. I did watch the whole trial, and tried then to judge matters soley as they were presented in court, to the jury. So it really was a bit of a surprise.

 

[Wendy101]

I think if the LE charge this whole family ( minus Lee) for this crime, they all would have been found guilty.

I think the problem the Jury had was WHO murdered Caylee and what 2 covered for the murderer?

 

[liltexans]

Ditto to being considered ignorant or lazy for agreeing with the verdict. Cheers.

I have never stated on WS that I think any poster or person is ignorant or lazy for agreeing with the verdict. Please direct your obvious anger elsewhere.

 

[MEM2010]

I don't need cold, hard evidence. I looked at all of the evidence that the state presented - Casey last one to see Caylee, not reporting Caylee dead/missing for 31 days, made up the nanny story, partied for a month, chloroform in the car, "How to Make Chloroform" searched on the computer, smell of death in the car, hair with death band in the car, body found in a bag that matched a bag at the mothers house, duct tape found on the remains that was the same duct tape found at the house.

respectfully

ok this may get some tomatoes thrown at me but I'm just throwing this out there as a possibility of an alternate theory of what could have happened given the points you listed. I just want to say though that this case is as tragic to me as it is others and I really just wish we could know the truth.



casey last one to see Caylee- Is this really proven? but let's just say it was Casey, maybe Caylee died due to her negligence. Let's say asphyxiated on a rock or even got into her chloroform

not reporting Caylee dead/missing- maybe she was to scared to admit it or maybe she even told the nanny story to herself and believed it.

partied for a month- at fusion where drugs were readily available. reality escape? was KC ever drug tested?

nanny story another lie to keep everyone away from the truth


chloroform in the car, "How to Make Chloroform" searched on the computer- Maybe chloroform was KC's indulgence.. maybe Caylee got into it?

smell of death in the car, hair with death band in the car- I fully believe Caylee was in the trunk


body found in a bag that matched a bag at the mothers house, duct tape found on the remains that was the same duct tape found at the house- this all could all be the signs of a cover-up


I welcome all critiques to my theory but would appreciate respect for respect in return

 

[beccalecca1]

I don't think he had anything to do with putting duct tape on the skull. I don't think he took the remains home and I also don't think the DT was even suggesting that. But everyone went with that in the media lol. However, he did move the bag and move the skull. And I think he did mark the spot so he could come back. I think the duct tape may have been taping the canvas bag or was just part of the trash already there.

I don't think he took the remains home either, and I'm sure that isn't what the DT was trying to imply. I believe they were saying that he stumbled on them in August, and when no one believed him then he did whatever he could to insure he'd be the one known to have found her whenever he called the next time. One peculiar thing about this though, and I know some are going to think I'm a conspiracy theorist for this, is watching the video of Dominic Casey out there and listening to Roy's 1st 911 calls and seeing the crime scene photos, I'm convinced Dominic Casey was in the spot of her remains. But, her remains are not on that video. She either wasn't there then or she was buried. Dominic and Hoover practically step over/on where she should've been. That stuck out to me and I found it disturbing, and furthered my thinking that Casey didn't put her out in the swamp.

 

[MEM2010]

I don't think he took the remains home either, and I'm sure that isn't what the DT was trying to imply. I believe they were saying that he stumbled on them in August, and when no one believed him then he did whatever he could to insure he'd be the one known to have found her whenever he called the next time. One peculiar thing about this though, and I know some are going to think I'm a conspiracy theorist for this, is watching the video of Dominic Casey out there and listening to Roy's 1st 911 calls and seeing the crime scene photos, I'm convinced Dominic Casey was in the spot of her remains. But, her remains are not on that video. She either wasn't there then or she was buried. Dominic and Hoover practically step over/on where she should've been. That stuck out to me and I found it disturbing, and furthered my thinking that Casey didn't put her out in the swamp.

bbm

I find that very intriguing. Can you go into further detail into how you came to that conclusion?

 

[nursebeeme]

There really wasn't a reason to expect more. I mean, all of the State's evidence was in the doc dumps. There could be no hidden surprise smoking guns because we knew about all of their stuff beforehand.

bbm

but all of the evidence in the docu dumps was not presented to the jury in the case in chief by the state.

there was never a smoking gun: direct evidence

but

there was a lot more to tie the proverbial gun to the hand of Casey Anthony circumstantially that was not presented imhoo.

I am not a lawyer... so maybe what the state left out would be considered heresay on the stand.. but what about establishing GA's whereabouts on that morning out of the gate after the states opening? Or putting Casey's pings on the record... or proving that GA had no access to the car during those 31 days other than the gas can incident (for example: "did you see Casey on any other day than this day when she threw the gas cans at you What about GA's recollection of watching the cooking show on teevee after he saw Casey leave with Caylee?

I just think the SA did not put enough mustard on the hot dog. I am not blaming them in any way, shape, or form... and think there was enough there for a conviction for Casey at least on count three.. but I expected much, much, much more in the case in chief... They brought it home in the closing but that was not evidence. So what then?

I seriously was worried when the state rested and even posted questions to the lawyer thread about rebuttal.. could the state bring out the rest of their info during rebuttal (plant expert, pings, etc) but none of that was brought out at all...

this is just me thinking as a lay person and not a lawyer so hind sight goggles apply...

I am just turning over in my head what went wrong? something went wrong here somewhere..

most of us have been here since day one and have read every single document and seen everything but we have to remember what the jury saw... it was not all of what we saw... had they seen it all? maybe there would be a different verdict right now..

but we never will know. And we all have to acknowledge this verdict. We don't have to respect it, like it, agree with it... but to move on we all have to at least acknowledge that it has happened... and deal with it as we all can.

((trust me I am not happy with it))